Terri Schiavo: More Grandstanding

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
161

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
TravisCS84 wrote:
I don’t know if this has been mentioned before, but without a cerberal cortex there is no ‘painful starvation’ or ‘feeling her lips crack as her body is dehydrated’.

She will not feel a thing. Don’t think that wasn’t taken into consideration by the husband.

huh.
so perhaps we can starve you and see if your lips crack or if you feel it?

Look…there are a ton of doctors who are on board now saying she does feel pain.
But of course…if she can feel it, that makes it bad, as long as she’ll never know it, it’s okay that a single judge has ordered her killed?

All of those docs that you posted about seem to be out for the publicity. I already told you that swallowing is not a sign of higher brain activity…so why is that one doctor stating that it is? Your first comment was simply ridiculous. I am quite sure he has a cerebral cortex.

Face it, waiting for 15 years is not a rush to kill someone. Waiting 6 years before any further action is taken to see if there is a chance for recovery is also not a rush to do anything. A man who was married who hasn’t even been able to hold a conversation with his wife or be intimate with her for a decade and a half who finds another woman is not bigamy. All of your insults actually speak more highly of the husband than you seem to be able to realize. There are marriages that don’t last as long as this man waited to see if there was a chance of recovery.
[/quote]

" I already told you that swallowing is not a sign of higher brain activity…so why is that one doctor stating that it is? "

The Professor has spoken! LOL

“There are marriages that don’t last as long as this man waited to see if there was a chance of recovery.”

My marriage vows stated: “Till death do us part!” No…wait don’t tell me, you are not married…but you are an expert on marriage…yep that seems to be your MO.

162

[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
Good spin, ProfX. I think you need to speak to Howard Dean about a job in the DNC, they could really use you. You’d be great on the talk shows!
(btw I was being serious.)[/quote]

Please don’t puff him up anymore than he already is…He won’t be able to get his head through the T-Door…:slight_smile: By the way if you read his posts closely, (as I have had the honor to do) they never really make sense. They go something like this: “Bluster bluster…BOOO bluster…AHH…I…I…I…ME…ME…HI!”

163

[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
we’re a nation primarily of people who respect laws.
And you’ll find that most of the people who feel for Terri are the same type that are less given to big marches and stuff, let alone breaking the law by storming the hospice.
It’s one of the weaknesses of this side, I think.[/quote]

There is something called CIVIL DISOBIDIENCE. There comes a time when people’s convictions raise above the law of the land. We are not talking about a pet issue here. We are talking about a human life. It’s pathetic the lack of representation at the hospice. We need more action and less words!!!

164

[quote]johnny quick wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
we’re a nation primarily of people who respect laws.
And you’ll find that most of the people who feel for Terri are the same type that are less given to big marches and stuff, let alone breaking the law by storming the hospice.
It’s one of the weaknesses of this side, I think.

There is something called CIVIL DISOBIDIENCE. There comes a time when people’s convictions raise above the law of the land. We are not talking about a pet issue here. We are talking about a human life. It’s pathetic the lack of representation at the hospice. We need more action and less words!!!
[/quote]

Hey, I agree with you. I was just offering a reason. I wish there was a better way–but I don’t think we’d ever manage to get enough people to go with us.

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[quote]ZEB wrote:
Please don’t puff him up anymore than he already is…He won’t be able to get his head through the T-Door…:slight_smile: By the way if you read his posts closely, (as I have had the honor to do) they never really make sense. They go something like this: “Bluster bluster…BOOO bluster…AHH…I…I…I…ME…ME…HI!”

[/quote]

Well, if you really think about it, all the liberal spin guys on tv basically do the same thing. It’s more like “bluster bluster bullshit halliburton bluster angry white male bluster”

166

Question to Joe and Zeb:
What is it about the doctor that apparently lied about being nominated for the supreme court that makes you believe him over the other, seemingly more credible, doctors? I’m trying to look at this from a neutral perspective but from here it doesn’t really look like you guys have offered up any evidence that Terry is somehow alive and responsive.

Do we all agree that if Terri really is brain dead that it is within the guardian rights to remove the feeding tube? Everything I’ve heard, from the court appointed doctors, to the images of her brain, to the judges findings, indicate to me that she is, indeed, braindead.

Is it that you guys really want to believe that she is alive so you can have an issue to be at odds with, or is there something here that I’m missing? Did 3 [bold]COURT-APPOINTED[/bold] doctors not find her to be braindead. Did this other doctor not fail to provide evidence of his claims when asked by the court? Did this doctor not lie about being nominated for a Nobel Prize? Honestly I have not been following this much, I’ve gotten most of this information from posts here. If this stuff is true, what’s going on here with guys?

Also, can you guys comment on why abortion is a slippery slope, but the bill Bush signed in Texas is not a slippery slope? Why is the death penalty not a slippery slope?

167

[quote]ZEB wrote:
My marriage vows stated: “Till death do us part!” No…wait don’t tell me, you are not married…but you are an expert on marriage…yep that seems to be your MO.
[/quote]

So you are saying that one has to be an expert on marriage to know that most marriages statisically don’t last beyond X (X=7 for example) amount of years? I think you missed the point of what he was saying and decided to zero in on something a bit innocous. Well ZEB a lot of people take that pledge of “Til Death Do Us Part” and half of them seem to break that vow…but wait you would have to be married to know that nearly 50% of marriages flop, right, bingo!

168

[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Please don’t puff him up anymore than he already is…He won’t be able to get his head through the T-Door…:slight_smile: By the way if you read his posts closely, (as I have had the honor to do) they never really make sense. They go something like this: “Bluster bluster…BOOO bluster…AHH…I…I…I…ME…ME…HI!”

Well, if you really think about it, all the liberal spin guys on tv basically do the same thing. It’s more like “bluster bluster bullshit halliburton bluster angry white male bluster”
[/quote]

I don’t follow. PX is trained in medicine, has seen the imaging of Terri’s brain and, to his determination, agrees with the findings of multiple, court-appointed, doctors. What are you guys offering, besides a doctor that failed to produce evidence when prompted and lied about being nominated for the nobel prize? I haven’t been following this too closely; with the way you guys are talking I must be missing something here.

169

[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
Well, if you really think about it, all the liberal spin guys on tv basically do the same thing. It’s more like “bluster bluster bullshit halliburton bluster angry white male bluster”
[/quote]

LOL, yes it’s only the zaney liberal, perky nipple left that ever does any spinning, no way could the right do any spinning or bullshitting at all, no way! It’s the damn evil left that holds people down and lies to them, hell let’s say it’s all democrats…I guess it’s all sheep a herding today, eh matey? I really don’t get how people can get into a us vs. them, but I do agree with you on one thing, most people seem to think along similar and basic lines.

Well about the rioting, instead I got an idea, everyone across America hold hands for this woman who has technically been dead for nearly 15 years and pray very hard, and maybe she will grow her cerebral cortex back like a miracle, and just wake up and say “Wow what a hectec 15 years but a bit boring but hey I am back WHAZZZUP!” Right? Oh no it would be much to inhuman to let her go as the husband would have deemed fair for Terri. Not sure why of all the major issues and the possible lives that could be saven that we are handed an issue like this, but I guess this is reminescent of that very overblown and annoyingly so Elian Gonzalez case, my opinion on that was for him to go back to Cuba, I know if a Haitian boy pulled up his ass would have been shipped back. :wink:

Pro-Life, damn that sounds so heroic, you go with your bad selves! I am Pro-Penis myself.

170

[quote]Moriarty wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Please don’t puff him up anymore than he already is…He won’t be able to get his head through the T-Door…:slight_smile: By the way if you read his posts closely, (as I have had the honor to do) they never really make sense. They go something like this: “Bluster bluster…BOOO bluster…AHH…I…I…I…ME…ME…HI!”

Well, if you really think about it, all the liberal spin guys on tv basically do the same thing. It’s more like “bluster bluster bullshit halliburton bluster angry white male bluster”

I don’t follow. PX is trained in medicine, has seen the imaging of Terri’s brain and, to his determination, agrees with the findings of multiple, court-appointed, doctors. What are you guys offering, besides a doctor that failed to produce evidence when prompted and lied about being nominated for the nobel prize? I haven’t been following this too closely; with the way you guys are talking I must be missing something here.[/quote]

He didn’t lie about the nobel prize.
He’s not the only doctor. I’m tired of having to keep explaining this to everyone when all you have to do is do your own research.
The other doctors haven’t actually examined her. She hasn’t had either an MRI or PET scan.
And as for ProfX diagnosing her over the internet…well, what do you suppose that’s really worth?

171

[quote]EmperialChina wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
Well, if you really think about it, all the liberal spin guys on tv basically do the same thing. It’s more like “bluster bluster bullshit halliburton bluster angry white male bluster”

LOL, yes it’s only the zaney liberal, perky nipple left that ever does any spinning, no way could the right do any spinning or bullshitting at all, no way! It’s the damn evil left that holds people down and lies to them, hell let’s say it’s all democrats…I guess it’s all sheep a herding today, eh matey? I really don’t get how people can get into a us vs. them, but I do agree with you on one thing, most people seem to think along similar and basic lines.

Well about the rioting, instead I got an idea, everyone across America hold hands for this woman who has technically been dead for nearly 15 years and pray very hard, and maybe she will grow her cerebral cortex back like a miracle, and just wake up and say “Wow what a hectec 15 years but a bit boring but hey I am back WHAZZZUP!” Right? Oh no it would be much to inhuman to let her go as the husband would have deemed fair for Terri. Not sure why of all the major issues and the possible lives that could be saven that we are handed an issue like this, but I guess this is reminescent of that very overblown and annoyingly so Elian Gonzalez case, my opinion on that was for him to go back to Cuba, I know if a Haitian boy pulled up his ass would have been shipped back. :wink:

Pro-Life, damn that sounds so heroic, you go with your bad selves! I am Pro-Penis myself.
[/quote]

She hasn’t been dead for 15 years.
Sorry you felt that way about Elian.
I’m not pro-life, btw.
I’m actually pro choice. I prefer life is all.

172

[quote]100meters wrote:
B.B.,
What do you think about the possibility of an autopsy confirming or not what doctors thought or didn’t.
Could be a whole new chapter?
I felt like the schindler family was vaguely hinting at a murder case against the husband on Hannity last night, an autopsy might be a strong possibility.[/quote]

You’d be better off asking one of the doctors – I don’t know what autopsies are capable of showing w/r/t cognitive abilities. Or about the cause of injuries that are 16 years old.

I think you’re right about the Schindlers hinting at stuff – I’ve heard rumors on the news about strangulation and whatnot.

173

[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
He didn’t lie about the nobel prize.[/quote]

That’s possible. Are you sure? How do you know?

Ok, but my question is, why do you believe these doctors, and not the court-appointed doctors? Is there something that makes one set of doctors more credible? You do understand that there are just as many (probably more) doctors that say otherwise, right?

I apologize. I’m actually not that interested in this issue, and don’t have the time to do extensive research. I’m more interested in the fact the you and Zeb are SURE that this woman is alive when (from my perspective) all of the credible sources seem to state otherwise. My intuition was that you were relying on less credible sources that said what you wanted to believe (which is VERY common on these forum). I thought I’d ask if you had some evidence that I was missing. Even now it seems that all you have is “there are doctors that agree with what I want to believe”. Do you have anything else? You must understand that there are just as many doctors (actually more) that are saying she is dead as there are that say she’s alive. The federal judge(s) that heard this case, and have all of the information (which you must admit, even with all of your research, you do not have all the information) sided with the ones that say she’s dead.

From what I’ve read that isn’t true. Why do you believe this?

That does sound odd. How do you know this is true? How do you know these are necessary?

[quote]
And as for ProfX diagnosing her over the internet…well, what do you suppose that’s really worth?[/quote]

Honestly it’s not worth very much, but in all honesty (and I’m trying to keep an open mind here) it’s worth more than anything you’ve posted here, which is really just anecdotes from some collection of doctors and stuff you’ve read here and there. Admit it, the “other side” on this forum has just as many doctors and has read just as much stuff that says she’s dead, in essence negating what you’ve written. The only entity I know of that has complete information (the courts) have ruled consistently that she can have her feeding tube removed.

Also, logically it doesn’t make sense that this man would be doing this:

  1. for money
  2. to be with a “whore” (your words, and this kind of language is what led me to believe you were being driven by emotion instead of fact in the first place)

when:

  1. he could’ve gotten $1,000,000 for tranfering guardianship
  2. he could divorce her at any time.

In addition, from what little I’ve read there were MULTIPLE sources that stated that Terri had said she would want to be taken off of life support in this situation, so the husband isn’t the only one saying this.

Seriously, what am I missing here? Anyone?

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http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/./1/.1111787123878.1asp021.gif

Everybody agrees with the dr. of his/her choice. It’s like the roman circus, thumbs up or thumbs down. Life is precious. What if 20 years from now there is a cure for Terri’s condition? With the miraculous scientific discoveries we witness every day, isn’t that a possibility? What do you lose by keeping her around? If there is life, there is hope!

175

3 sources. Apparently she told her husband, his brother and his sister…but she didn’t tell her mother–who she was very close to, or her brother or her sister or her father.
Seem odd?

Well…whore might have been a little strong. I was frustrated at the time.
Perhaps she’s very religious and won’t marry him if he’s divorced? I don’t know…

What else…the lack of MRI and PET. This has been mentioned all over the place, I can bring forth the cites if you want. I believe it’s important because the neurologists that aren’t actually working to kill the woman–that is the people without axes to grind–say it’s unusual.

I believe them–or actually it’s not belief, rather that I give them more credence–because I’d rather err on the side of life. I’m afraid that having 1 judge (and that’s all it’s been…all the other judges have just been backing up the findings of Greer, not having new findings of fact) determine what’s a life and what quality of life is…it troubles me. Who’s next?
ya know?

And just for fun…did you know Greer has a history of rulings that wind up costing women their lives?
He refused a protection order for a woman once, he didn’t think it was serious. They found her body 2 days later.
He’s old, legally blind…and if Terri can be killed, perhaps he needs to be put to sleep as well?

176

I have a simple question.

If I walked into her hospital room, I picked up a chair, and I smashed her in the head and killed her, would I be charged with murder?

If so, then by extension, whoever removes her feeding tube should also be charged with murder.

I don’t want to hear any mumbo jumbo, it is either murder or it’s not.

At least if I smashed her it would be quick.

177

[quote]EmperialChina wrote:
ZEB wrote:
My marriage vows stated: “Till death do us part!” No…wait don’t tell me, you are not married…but you are an expert on marriage…yep that seems to be your MO.

So you are saying that one has to be an expert on marriage to know that most marriages statisically don’t last beyond X (X=7 for example) amount of years? I think you missed the point of what he was saying and decided to zero in on something a bit innocous. Well ZEB a lot of people take that pledge of “Til Death Do Us Part” and half of them seem to break that vow…but wait you would have to be married to know that nearly 50% of marriages flop, right, bingo!
[/quote]

Sorry to bust your bubble on your 13th post at T-Nation! However, my reference, since it escaped you, was to the problem of Mr. Schiavo wanting to pull the plug on his wife. Hence: “Till death do us part.” I could also have quoted: “In sickness and in health.”

Got it?

178

Moriarty:
BTW, for the entire length of time this has been going on I was on the other side of the issue. In fact, when Jeb Bush rammed ‘terri’s law’ through the Florida Legislature, I emailed the govenor’s office and told him how upset I was by his meddling etc.
Two weeks ago I was in favor of letting her die.
Then I heard some things that didn’t jibe. So I did some reading. And some more reading. And what I found made my hair curl (my hair’s so straight…well anyway!).
Admittedly, about 10 or 15% is based on watching the husband on tv. I watched him on Larry King and on other things, and my gut was screaming “sleaze” the entire time.

179

and now we hear that the night before she had her “heart attack” she and Michael had a huge fight–one of many, and that she’d been talking about a divorce.

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[quote]

And as for ProfX diagnosing her over the internet…well, what do you suppose that’s really worth?

Honestly it’s not worth very much, but in all honesty (and I’m trying to keep an open mind here) it’s worth more than anything you’ve posted here, which is really just anecdotes from some collection of doctors and stuff you’ve read here and there. [/quote]

So why is ProfX’s medical opinion from following a news story worth more than several experts who have actually gone and examined her?
I don’t understand that.