Ten Immediate Benefits of HCR Bill

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
121

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

Lol @ borrek having the lamest PWI response of all time and trying to recover by playing semantics with PH - after all, borrek does count as “anyone”.

And Vegita - your response to him was EXACTLY how I reacted. Flabbergasted, really.[/quote]

Well don’t worry, Were obviously both racists. It really doesn’t matter if an idea or two of our is right. A broken clock is right twice a day remember. We should actually get an award for having a rational thought once a month in between the cross burnings, the nascar races and the tractor pulls. BTW if you are done with yer sister can I take a ride on her?

V

122

Borrek,

I would like to share a story with you, and your utopian views. Your idea sounds wonderful on paper, but that is exactly where it stops. You see, when the government has a say in your health care, it is THE say in it. You now have an entity, who is not medically trained, but fiscally trained, who has a major decision in the care you get.

People bitch and moan about how health insurance companies cut off care for those with serious illnesses, what makes you think that your “trustworthy” government won’t do the same? Do you really think that this is fiscally sustainable in the long term? For America, this is even worse than compared to Europe, Canada, England, or whoever they are trying to model. Why? Because 2/3 of our population is grossly obese, you have a large majority of land whales, who carry all the problems associated with so much fatness. Now, add the liabilities that come with that, with so many people on the gov’t plan. You have countries with government run medical care, who are healthier than we are as a country, and they are in financial trouble right now. What do you think will happen to us?

On a final note, my grandfather died under Socialized Medicine, waiting for cancer surgery. Wanna know how long he waited? Over 1 year, and that was for cancer surgery. As anyone can imagine, waiting 1 year for anything regarding cancer is a death sentence. This is the idea of rationing. You CANNOT offer the best possible care to every single person without bankrupting the system, and the case of the US, it will happen at warp speed. It is a mathematical certainty. Even with a strong economy (which we are nowhere near right now), you cannot do it. So you now have the have’s and the have not’s, how is that different from our system now, without the obscene cost associated with Socialized Medicine?

Ask some of the people from Socialist countries, not ones hand picked by guys like Michael Moore, but people off the street about how badly they are taxed to pay for so many entitlements. I cannot even find an English word that effectively translates the disdain and loathing that my Italian family has for the bullshit system. Do you know what you get, when you take so much from people? Lack of drive and desire to bust ass. You are talking about tax rates between 45-55%, why would you even try for a raise or promotion when you are keeping only half?

123

[quote]Vegita wrote:
You really have no idea how wrong you are.

http://www.randpaul2010.com/

V[/quote]
His father has some good points, but gets bullied easy in discussions. At least it looked that way from the videos I saw. Maybe Rand is better at that part.

124

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
You CANNOT offer the best possible care to every single person without bankrupting the system, and the case of the US, it will happen at warp speed. It is a mathematical certainty. Even with a strong economy (which we are nowhere near right now), you cannot do it. [/quote]

It amazes me to see how many people fail to grasp this point. There might not be actual death panels, but there will still be people behind the curtain making decisions regarding who gets what care, and some patients will simply get left behind.

125

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
If “we join the rest of the world” we’re taking a hit. The American middle class if far richer than European middle class. You would have to be a millionaire in Europe to live like I do.[/quote]

How many days holiday do you get a year?

How many hours do you work each week?

How many minutes is your commute to work?

What time do you leave work on Friday afternoons?

If you need to drop your children off at school can you without any question whatsoever from your employer? (As long as you actually do the job your paid to do.)

Are you absolutely certain that you’ll always be treated if you get sick?

How much will you pay to send your children through university/college?

Do you still feel rich after answering these questions?[/quote]

So now Lou it’s your turn :)[/quote]

I’m not a fair example. I don’t want to go into too much detail about me. I’ll say what most people in my office do. I don’t live in the UK I live somewhere else in Europe but I’m not saying where. Is that cool?

We have 25 days holiday. Plus about 12-15 public holiday. Plus it’s very easy to have flex holiday days as well.

Most people work about 37 hours a week. If someone is inefficient then they work longer hours.

Most people commute no more than 20minutes. Many less. (mine is 5 minutes on a bike)

3:30 is the normal leaving time on a Friday.

No one ever questions childcare needs. For fathers or mothers. I don’t mean for sick kids I mean day to day stuff.

Healthcare is state run. Sometimes waiting times for elective treatments suck. No one ever goes untreated in a hospital or doctors surgery. No one is ever asked whether they can afford a treatment.

Undergraduate students get generous grants. They pay no fees and should finish their degrees debt free.

The locals feel very rich.

126

Someone please name one Govt agency that is not in debt and is working correctly? What about the social ramifications of this new system. I have worked in the health care industry my whole adult life, going on 19 years. I have seen the steady decline of American born doctors during this time. NOBODY wants to be a doctor anymore, why? Due to liability and lack of wage earning there are more and more FOREIGN residents (Drs in training). Why is this? They are coming from countries with national health care and they are not going back, WHY?

Also Max is 100% correct there will be health care rationing. It already happens. I had a patient who had a stent that drained fluid from her brain and when she came to see me she was having nausea, HA and belly pain. When I assessed her she had a large mass in her abdomen at the drainage site. I ordered a stat CT scan of her abdomen. It was denied by Medicaid, luckly I knew the director of the hospital and they did it anyway. Then of course halo flighted her to Dallas to her neurosurgeon for surgery.

Now you may ask who made the decision to deny the stat CT scan. Some govt paid employee for medicaid who gives two shits about this women. Good luck on your mom or grandmother getting chemo if she is past a certain age. Anybody who believes this type of health care reform is going to work is very young, naive and blind. Yes there needs to be reform but the place to start would be the insurance companies themselves.

127

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:

[quote]MrDan500 wrote:
Also America is a nation of lawyers and not to offend anyone but mal-practice lawsuits are obscene. Yes when a doctor reall screws up he/she should be sued but not for these enormous amounts. Mal-practice insurance eats up 35-50% of a doctor’s income.
[/quote]

Back to the tort reform. The problem with this isn’t the rewards, but the ease in which someone can be deemed negligent. Everyone thinks the rewards are too high, until they’re the one who gets hurt. Try to put a pricetag on walking, seeing, fucking, or the very life of your loved ones.

mike[/quote]

I agree with your thoughts. The issue is that 54% of the rewards go to the lawyer who really has no emotional tie to the person injured. The judgement pays the lawyer first, bills second, and then the person hurt. It needs to be the other way around.

128

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]borrek wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
By the way, I’m not sure if this has been mentioned yet but under this incredibly generous plan please explain why anyone would buy health insurance before they actually need it. [/quote]

As demonstrated by passing of the Health Care Affordability Act, some of us do the right thing.[/quote]

Purty lame response. When it comes to the “deep thinking” type stuff you go on holiday, doncha?[/quote]

But Friend push, let’s be fair to Borrek. He has made a rational decision for himself.

What he does not know, is that lurking across the street from him is the Antiborrek family. Antiborrek has come to a different rational conclusion. He has decided that this year, he will pay the $1000 fine, but save the $6000 on insurance premiums for his family of four. You see, he needs the $5000 to spend on chrome-plated dirt-bikes for him and his son. When his daughter–that 4 year old whom Mr Axelrod is always mentioning–gets glomerulonephritis or a dirt-bike injury, Antiborrek will sign up for the high risk pool. She cannot be denied access, after all, and he gets to keep his dirt-bikes.

Well the insurance intermediary has a new customer and a new expense immediately. The riwsk has not been shared for the prior year, so they decide they must increase the rates for our rational friend, Borrek. (Oh, you say, the law will prevent that. Then that insurance company may prefer not to write policies in Michigan.) Perhaps the government will underwrite a high risk policy; taxes, after all will pay for it and Borrek is a responsible taxpayer.

Each family has make a rational choice. But who has come out ahead? Now why would Borrek want to put his family at such a disadvantage–more premiums, or withdrawal of the policy or higher taxes?

Dirt-bikes: the only answer. Chrome-plated.

129

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:
<<< Dirt-bikes: the only answer. Chrome-plated.[/quote]
Enough dirt bikes and there are no more insurance companies.

130

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:
<<< Dirt-bikes: the only answer. Chrome-plated.[/quote]
Enough dirt bikes and there are no more private insurance companies.[/quote]

Fixed that for ya.

131

Wait. I may sound like a TOTAL retard, but can someone clarify this for me?

Other than this Act giving coverage to uncovered Americans who can’t afford health insurance, and charging taxpayers for it, we still have private insurance companies.

Are we capable of choosing the government plan over private health insurance? Or is it for set incomes? If it’s for set incomes, than what’s the huge fuss about other than additional money coming out of our pockets to help save some people’s lives? Are we all really that fucked up?

This isn’t a national take over of health insurance, am I correct? Everything will remain the same, except now low-income poor people will have a means of health insurance, rather than forcing us to foot expensive ER bills.

What it SOUNDS liek to me is our country will remain the same, other than $983 billion being invested into the plan, but we are getting health insurance for the poor, that yes, everyone else will pay for, but we pay for plenty of people now already. America is the fattest country. Shit, just think of all the fat asses with heart conditions and diabetes that drive up our healthcare costs.

If anything, we need to stop bitching about giving the poor a means of health insurance and go after the health insurance companies themselves. Start trying to force legislature on that.

So, correct me if I’m wrong, this Health Care Act essentially just gets coverage for the poor, yet doesn’t knock out private companies. So everything remains the same with some added taxes to everyone else. Not OMG SOCIALISM WE ARE GOING TO SPONTANEOUSLY COMBUST!!! IT"S THE END OF THE USA AS WE KNOW IT!!! Kinda deal, right?

133

[quote]football061 wrote:
Wait. I may sound like a TOTAL retard, but can someone clarify this for me?

Other than this Act giving coverage to uncovered Americans who can’t afford health insurance, and charging taxpayers for it, we still have private insurance companies.

Are we capable of choosing the government plan over private health insurance? Or is it for set incomes? If it’s for set incomes, than what’s the huge fuss about other than additional money coming out of our pockets to help save some people’s lives? Are we all really that fucked up?

This isn’t a national take over of health insurance, am I correct? Everything will remain the same, except now low-income poor people will have a means of health insurance, rather than forcing us to foot expensive ER bills.

What it SOUNDS liek to me is our country will remain the same, other than $983 billion being invested into the plan, but we are getting health insurance for the poor, that yes, everyone else will pay for, but we pay for plenty of people now already. America is the fattest country. Shit, just think of all the fat asses with heart conditions and diabetes that drive up our healthcare costs.

If anything, we need to stop bitching about giving the poor a means of health insurance and go after the health insurance companies themselves. Start trying to force legislature on that.

So, correct me if I’m wrong, this Health Care Act essentially just gets coverage for the poor, yet doesn’t knock out private companies. So everything remains the same with some added taxes to everyone else. Not OMG SOCIALISM WE ARE GOING TO SPONTANEOUSLY COMBUST!!! IT"S THE END OF THE USA AS WE KNOW IT!!! Kinda deal, right?

[/quote]
You’re right.

You do sound like a retard.

135

[quote]football061 wrote:

Are we all really that fucked up?[/quote]

Just remember, this is the group you’re talking to here:

136

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

[quote]football061 wrote:

Are we all really that fucked up?[/quote]

Just remember, this is the group you’re talking to here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmaKRwUoAIU&feature=player_embedded
[/quote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc2FCJ7zWEQ

and this is who you are agreeing with.

137

[quote]football061 wrote:
Wait. I may sound like a TOTAL retard, but can someone clarify this for me?

Other than this Act giving coverage to uncovered Americans who can’t afford health insurance, and charging taxpayers for it, we still have private insurance companies.

Are we capable of choosing the government plan over private health insurance? Or is it for set incomes? If it’s for set incomes, than what’s the huge fuss about other than additional money coming out of our pockets to help save some people’s lives? Are we all really that fucked up?

This isn’t a national take over of health insurance, am I correct? Everything will remain the same, except now low-income poor people will have a means of health insurance, rather than forcing us to foot expensive ER bills.

What it SOUNDS liek to me is our country will remain the same, other than $983 billion being invested into the plan, but we are getting health insurance for the poor, that yes, everyone else will pay for, but we pay for plenty of people now already. America is the fattest country. Shit, just think of all the fat asses with heart conditions and diabetes that drive up our healthcare costs.

If anything, we need to stop bitching about giving the poor a means of health insurance and go after the health insurance companies themselves. Start trying to force legislature on that.

So, correct me if I’m wrong, this Health Care Act essentially just gets coverage for the poor, yet doesn’t knock out private companies. So everything remains the same with some added taxes to everyone else. Not OMG SOCIALISM WE ARE GOING TO SPONTANEOUSLY COMBUST!!! IT"S THE END OF THE USA AS WE KNOW IT!!! Kinda deal, right?

[/quote]
Football, I like you. And your heart is in the right place, but you’re miles and miles away from what this bill will accomplish and what it means for America.

I can explain a lot more to you in person after we kill that 5 pound cheesesteak.

138

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]football061 wrote:
Wait. I may sound like a TOTAL retard, but can someone clarify this for me?

Other than this Act giving coverage to uncovered Americans who can’t afford health insurance, and charging taxpayers for it, we still have private insurance companies.

Are we capable of choosing the government plan over private health insurance? Or is it for set incomes? If it’s for set incomes, than what’s the huge fuss about other than additional money coming out of our pockets to help save some people’s lives? Are we all really that fucked up?

This isn’t a national take over of health insurance, am I correct? Everything will remain the same, except now low-income poor people will have a means of health insurance, rather than forcing us to foot expensive ER bills.

What it SOUNDS liek to me is our country will remain the same, other than $983 billion being invested into the plan, but we are getting health insurance for the poor, that yes, everyone else will pay for, but we pay for plenty of people now already. America is the fattest country. Shit, just think of all the fat asses with heart conditions and diabetes that drive up our healthcare costs.

If anything, we need to stop bitching about giving the poor a means of health insurance and go after the health insurance companies themselves. Start trying to force legislature on that.

So, correct me if I’m wrong, this Health Care Act essentially just gets coverage for the poor, yet doesn’t knock out private companies. So everything remains the same with some added taxes to everyone else. Not OMG SOCIALISM WE ARE GOING TO SPONTANEOUSLY COMBUST!!! IT"S THE END OF THE USA AS WE KNOW IT!!! Kinda deal, right?

[/quote]
Football, I like you. And your heart is in the right place, but you’re miles and miles away from what this bill will accomplish and what it means for America.

I can explain a lot more to you in person after we kill that 5 pound cheesesteak. [/quote]

Sounds good to me!

I just wanted to sound like a big important person like everyone else here!!

AMERICA FUCK YEAH!

lolol

Not offending you lanky, by the way

139

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
I heard someone yelled “baby killer” at Rep. Stupak, one of the most hardcore anti-abortion Dems around. Obviously whoever yelled it respects life, but what about the lives of the tens of thousands of Americans who die each year because they don’t have healthcare?[/quote]

It’s not tens of thousands. How about those who do have health insurance and kill themselves due to a poor lifestyle? and how many of those don’t have insurance?

I don’t feel to sorry for someone whop wastes money on smokes and beer and is to cheap to buy insurance.

140

Football,

What Obama and his clowns want you to think, is that every single person in the country can get the best quality health care, and that the government can assure that. He also wants you to believe, that if you make less than 250k per year, that you won’t see an increase of your taxes, not one penny. He also wants you to believe it will decrease our deficit over time.

How about I equate this to something you seem to already know, which is football…

What if I told you, that if you took product X, you would be able to bench press 500 lbs, squat 800, deadlift 1ooo, run a 4.2 40 yr dash, run a 4 minute mile, run a triathlon, etc. Do you really think any such product could promise to do all of that? Clearly not, you might get one, or maybe 2 of those, but certainly not all of them.

This is the same scam Obama is running. How do you pay for everyone’s health care, improve the deficit, lower premiums, blah blah blah, without costing an arm, leg, and your entire body? You just can’t. He mentions places like Europe, Canada, and England, where people have government paid health care, but the government gets it money from tax payers. So you have people, who pay more than half what they make in taxes, thinking they are getting free health care. Wrong, they are paying for it with their own tax money. Here is the problem, especially for many of us here. For the most part, many of us have zero health problems, but we would still be taxed up the nose. Do you feel that you would be getting your money’s worth, if you are perfectly healthy? You are basically paying for other people (the sick), and according to Obama, if you don’t keep the train going, you pay a fine. Also, with so many more people getting “free Obamacare,” how bad do you think the wait to get seen by a doc will be? But wait, Obama will just have more people become doctors right? Nope, the government will not reimburse the docs at a rate to which makes it worth their time. If they break even, I would personally be shocked.

Well personally, I don’t wanna fucking pay for someone else, and certainly not be made to. I used to work in a hospital, and I have heard how doctors get fucked financially from Medicare. Some doctors told me that they might see 70% reimbursement. So for every dollar you spend, you get 70 cents back, shitty deal eh?

Beyond all that, it’s the principle. A couple hundred years back, people left Europe BECAUSE of such a commanding government. People fled to get away from that, to have a voice in laws and elections. Obama took a steaming dump on that idea, and those who fought and died for that.