Telling Other People How to Parent

Off Topic
82

[quote]Sure can. Getting your period feels is like…
…drinking a two-liter bottle of Mountain Dew and then running a 10K, and then being kicked in the lower abdomen…
…someone stabbing you in the stomach and twisting the knife. ThatÃ?¢??s cramps. Plus, your boobs get sore, your muscles ache, you experience nausea and headaches, and are constantly tired. Also, imagine constantly bleeding from your asshole and shoving cotton up it so you donÃ?¢??t ruin your pants…
…your emotions are placed on a keyboard, then someone is slamming their hands on the keyboard. All you want to do is sleep and sit on something soft. If you have front cramps, it feels like someone has your abdomen in a vice. If they are back cramps, it feels like someone is kicking you in the tailbone over and over…
…Like a spear running all the way through my lower abdomen. And needing to poop…
…Periods are awful, inconvenient, dirty, uncomfortable, excruciating, exhausting, and you arenÃ?¢??t supposed to talk about them, which only makes it worse because you have to live your life pretending you arenÃ?¢??t constantly sweating, farting, expelling fluids from your vagina, and in so much pain you can hardly breathe. IÃ?¢??m not exaggerating…
…feeling like a walrus: bloated, fat, shiny-faced, and I want to roll around all day…
…Like someone is grinding my insides into liquid and theyÃ?¢??re leaking uncontrollably out of my vagina…
…most of the time, itÃ?¢??s annoying, but tolerable. Then about every four months, itÃ?¢??s really bad, like someone glued and duct-taped the inner wall of my uterus and then started violently ripping it off. And on top of that, you have diarrhea, and sometimes an upset stomach. Not to mention blood pouring out of your vagina…
…The best way to describe what a period feels like is to use a person as an example. I feel that King Joffrey from Game of Thrones is the most accurateÃ?¢?Ã?¦

I can go on if you want.[/quote]

Now, normally I’d give a person credit that this was done on purpose, to make a point about how stupid anecdata can be, but I feel like I can’t give you that credit so I’m going to ask…

Why are you railing on the appeal to authority fallacy and the failures of anecdata, while using both as the cornerstone of your attempt to refute the idea that it is indeed impossible to truly understand some things on a personal level?

You seem to have this fundamental idea that science can solve everything(I mean maybe in a utopian future it can?), but especially in the realms of human society that are heavily influenced by irrational(meant in the technical sense) things like human emotion, ‘studies’ and ‘evidence’ are going to be woefully in-adept at finding concreteness and answers. Science can at best hope to inform in such matters, not be the empirical and unequivocal until new evidence arises measuring stick that it is in purely physical fields.

86

TH:

You keep talking about “scientific evidence”. Parenting isn’t science. EVERY child ever born is different from every other child ever born. There isn’t a “mathematical formula” for raising kids, nor should there be. It is our job as a parent to find out what works with OUR kids to keep our kids in line and use it effectively to mold them and shape them to be responsible adults.

You spout off a bunch of fancy words as an argument, but if you reduce it all down to the bare bones, you are just a fucking pacifist. That’s fine. Your right hold that opinion is defended by those who learned how to take a punch, so you don’t have to. It’s supported by a state who will come arrest anyone who attempts to hurt you.

In other words, you live in a liberal fantasy land (which is your right), but here’s an unsolicited piece of advice for you (which is appropriate because you’ve been dishing out unsolicited advice this entire thread): When EVERYONE in a conversation disagrees with you and thinks your opinion is bullshit, they’re probably right. Especially when the topic is about something you have no experience with. Seriously. You are NOT a parent. We are. And we are not interested in hearing what you have to say.

I’ve raised an outstanding son: Eagle scout, honor roll, state champion athlete, chess tournament champion, summer life guard, musician, etc… I could keep going, but the point is, he’s a fucking awesome individual who just turned 18 and want’s to serve his country before he goes to college because he is a patriot, not an American hating liberal fucking communist. I trust my son 100% with my life and the life of anyone I care about, because I taught him (and am still teaching him) how to be a resourceful MAN with a code of honor and integrity. My point is this: people would be FAR more likely to ask ME how I raised MY son and what style parenting I used because I’VE ACTUALLY DONE IT. I can check that box on my resume, YOU CAN’T…

So fuck off

87

[quote]red04 wrote:
You seem to have this fundamental idea that science can solve everything(I mean maybe in a utopian future it can?), but especially in the realms of human society that are heavily influenced by irrational(meant in the technical sense) things like human emotion, ‘studies’ and ‘evidence’ are going to be woefully in-adept at finding concreteness and answers. Science can at best hope to inform in such matters, not be the empirical and unequivocal until new evidence arises measuring stick that it is in purely physical fields.
[/quote]

Ding ding ding, we have a winner.

88

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
TH:

You keep talking about “scientific evidence”. Parenting isn’t science. EVERY child ever born is different from every other child ever born. There isn’t a “mathematical formula” for raising kids, nor should there be. It is our job as a parent to find out what works with OUR kids to keep our kids in line and use it effectively to mold them and shape them to be responsible adults.

You spout off a bunch of fancy words as an argument, but if you reduce it all down to the bare bones, you are just a fucking pacifist. That’s fine. Your right hold that opinion is defended by those who learned how to take a punch, so you don’t have to. It’s supported by a state who will come arrest anyone who attempts to hurt you. In other words, you live in a liberal fantasy land (which is your right), but here’s an unsolicited piece of advice for you (which is appropriate because you’ve been dishing out unsolicited advice this entire thread): When EVERYONE in a conversation disagrees with you and thinks your opinion is bullshit, they’re probably right. Especially when the topic is about something you have no experience with. Seriously. You are NOT a parent. We are. And we are not interested in hearing what you have to say.

I’ve raised an outstanding son: Eagle scout, honor roll, state champion athlete, chess tournament champion, summer life guard, musician, etc… I could keep going, but the point is, he’s a fucking awesome individual who just turned 18 and want’s to serve his country before he goes to college because he is a patriot, not an American hating liberal fucking communist. I trust my son 100% with my life and the life of anyone I care about, because I taught him (and am still teaching him) how to be a resourceful MAN with a code of honor and integrity. My point is this: people would be FAR more likely to ask ME how I raised MY son and what style parenting I used because I’VE ACTUALLY DONE IT. I can check that box on my resume, YOU CAN’T…

So fuck off

[/quote]

Great post AC.

89

I’ve never hit my child. I don’t hit strangers that piss me off in public, so why would I strike my beloved child?
I grew up in a household where both parents were slap-happy (that’s being kind), and the worst of my siblings was the one most often beaten - the irony being that the beatings did nothing to lessen his future bad behavior.

90

Most parents (including myself) are playing it by ear and doing the best they can so I wouldn’t presume to give them input unless asked.

I have given one of my best friends my thoughts (when asked) and they were tough to swallow for him, but he knows I have nothing but the best intentions for him and his family. That is why it is called tough love.

A stranger or acquaintance? MYOB unless you see actual abuse, not a swat on the ass.

91

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
I meaaaan, if you’re a Christian scientist refusing to treat your child’s legitimate medical conditions with anything but prayer, then yea, I’ll happily call you an idiot. Likewise for zealous anti-vaxxers, who are typically on the complete opposite end of the spectrum. Outside of that, I don’t begin to speak with authority on parenting. If someone wants to defend whipping a kid with a belt or something and solicits my opinion then I’ll give it, but otherwise I’m content to stay mum.[/quote]

In your case, it crosses both abuse and medical emergency lines.

I’d probably have to take you by surprise and at a run, but I’d push you to the ground, wrap your head in my hoodie and start slapping you.

Then I’d call 911 with one hand, and slap your mother with the other.

What kind of a mother lets her kid run around with his hair ON FIRE?

Then I’d call social services.

92

Toohuman, I am curious, what does it feel like to kill a man? I have never done it but surely science has an answer.

93

[quote]doogie wrote:
What prompted this thread?[/quote]

Discussion on another board about a punishment that appears to have gone wrong…

Got me thinking about what I would or wouldn’t say to the particular parent if I had been able to go back in time and speak with them.

Which lead to the questions of “is it my place”?

I don’t know, really. The boards are what we make of them, and figured this could be a decent discussion. I, unfortunately forgot TH the zealot…

94

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
What is your line in the sand before you step in and comment on someone’s parenting?

I assume we’d all stop blatant abuse, whether it be physical or mental torture, but is there anything short of that you’d comment on?

Let’s assume this is face to face, and not e-warrior keyboard commando for the time being. Or even some sort of family intervention (if people to those for such things.)

If no one asked you for advise, at what point would you say something on your own?[/quote]

Unless it’s blatant abuse, it’s none of my business, even if I don’t like it.

95

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.

Seriously. Mind your own fucking business.

Unless you have evidence of abuse or neglect (not suspicions, not “opinions” of what a parent “should” be doing - EVIDENCE OF LAW BEING BROKEN), keep your meddling nose out of someone ELSE’S personal business.

Even then, think long and hard before you fuck with someone’s kids/custody situation. You may very well bite off more than you can chew.

Unless you are specifically asked for help. By the parent or the child. Then you have been involved and INVITED into that situation. But unless you are INVITED, stay off their fucking lawn. Some people take that shit kinda personally, and I have NEVER met a situation where injecting “government” into it, made it any better in the long run for anybody.

If “the state” ever tried to take MY kids (for whatever fucking reason), I would hunt down those responsible and put them in the ground, then I’d work my way up the food chain. Don’t fuck with people’s kids. I know I’m not the only person who feels this way. Best to leave it alone and mind your own fucking business.[/quote]

Amen. That goes double for meddling in someones marriage. Nothing good can possibly come out of that, unless there is blatant abuse.

People in this country have a disease. They are too worried about what others are doing and not enough about what they themselves are doing. Fix yourself before worrying about others and everybody benefits.

96

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
TH:

You keep talking about “scientific evidence”. Parenting isn’t science. EVERY child ever born is different from every other child ever born. There isn’t a “mathematical formula” for raising kids, nor should there be. It is our job as a parent to find out what works with OUR kids to keep our kids in line and use it effectively to mold them and shape them to be responsible adults.

You spout off a bunch of fancy words as an argument, but if you reduce it all down to the bare bones, you are just a fucking pacifist. That’s fine. Your right hold that opinion is defended by those who learned how to take a punch, so you don’t have to. It’s supported by a state who will come arrest anyone who attempts to hurt you.

In other words, you live in a liberal fantasy land (which is your right), but here’s an unsolicited piece of advice for you (which is appropriate because you’ve been dishing out unsolicited advice this entire thread): When EVERYONE in a conversation disagrees with you and thinks your opinion is bullshit, they’re probably right. Especially when the topic is about something you have no experience with. Seriously. You are NOT a parent. We are. And we are not interested in hearing what you have to say.

I’ve raised an outstanding son: Eagle scout, honor roll, state champion athlete, chess tournament champion, summer life guard, musician, etc… I could keep going, but the point is, he’s a fucking awesome individual who just turned 18 and want’s to serve his country before he goes to college because he is a patriot, not an American hating liberal fucking communist. I trust my son 100% with my life and the life of anyone I care about, because I taught him (and am still teaching him) how to be a resourceful MAN with a code of honor and integrity. My point is this: people would be FAR more likely to ask ME how I raised MY son and what style parenting I used because I’VE ACTUALLY DONE IT. I can check that box on my resume, YOU CAN’T…

So fuck off

[/quote]

Amen again. Every kid IS very different and they respond differently to different things. One kid may need an ass whooping where another needs a gentle touch and both can come out of the same gene pool. There is no formula, you adjust to the kid. You try to cookie cut parenting and you are in for some shocks.

97

[quote]TooHuman wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]TooHuman wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
TooHuman, if I recall correctly you aren’t a parent, right?

[/quote]

No I’m not, but you know that’s non-sequiter and continue to use the fallacy of an appeal to authority anyway.

You wouldn’t agree that the following arguments are valid right?

“I’m going to bet, that whole sale (like 90%) of people agreeing with you in any of the comments you’re making on this thread are men.”

"Yes, as most women understand what being a woman is like, unlike someone who’s not a woman, so they reserve judgment. "

“I do believe that you need to be a woman to truly understand what it means to woman.”

None of those are valid rational criticisms of an argument about the actions of women and the same applies to parents.[/quote]

No, all of them are in fact rational criticisms… But please, feel free to explain to the class what getting your period is like. Please describe the emotion in detail. [/quote]

See the thing about the scientific method and empiricism is that you can easily gather even qualitative evidence without having to experience it personally.
This is why in science empirical evidence(when available) always supersedes anecdotal evidence and the same can be applied to universalizing ethical principals.
For example here is anecdotal evidence from 21 women:

Here is a meta-analysis on the habitual, psychological, and behavioral experiences of women:
http://universityofsoutherncalifornia.createsend1.com/t/ViewEmail/j/ADD47DFBEA32FEE0
[/quote]

That’s like saying you can learn what sex feels like by studying evidence. If you don’t have children, you have no clue, period.

98

Aside from witnessing outright abuse, generally I’ve only said something if someone is complaining about some aspect of parenting to me. And generally it’s just a “this is what we do” type statement.

There are some things that I see that get me perturbed with random parents in public though. Outside of differing discipline methods, there are things that parents just plain shouldn’t do and no one would argue are bad for a kid. Things like smoking while holding an infant type stuff. In that sort of situation I’ve become a master of passive aggressiveness. I’ll stare and cough and make a show of moving away while commenting about the early stages of infant lung development to my wife loud enough they can hear. Or some such thing.

99

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Aside from witnessing outright abuse, generally I’ve only said something if someone is complaining about some aspect of parenting to me. And generally it’s just a “this is what we do” type statement.

There are some things that I see that get me perturbed with random parents in public though. Outside of differing discipline methods, there are things that parents just plain shouldn’t do and no one would argue are bad for a kid. Things like smoking while holding an infant type stuff. In that sort of situation I’ve become a master of passive aggressiveness. I’ll stare and cough and make a show of moving away while commenting about the early stages of infant lung development to my wife loud enough they can hear. Or some such thing.

[/quote]

When I grew up everybody smoked. I don’t think it’s that big a deal. It surely doesn’t demand intervention.

100

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Aside from witnessing outright abuse, generally I’ve only said something if someone is complaining about some aspect of parenting to me. And generally it’s just a “this is what we do” type statement.

There are some things that I see that get me perturbed with random parents in public though. Outside of differing discipline methods, there are things that parents just plain shouldn’t do and no one would argue are bad for a kid. Things like smoking while holding an infant type stuff. In that sort of situation I’ve become a master of passive aggressiveness. I’ll stare and cough and make a show of moving away while commenting about the early stages of infant lung development to my wife loud enough they can hear. Or some such thing.

[/quote]

When I grew up everybody smoked. I don’t think it’s that big a deal. It surely doesn’t demand intervention.[/quote]

I think it’s a pretty big deal when there is a newborn a foot away from where you are puffing. It is terrible for their health and there is just plain no good reason to do it other than a lazy addicted parent. Even so, I don’t intervene, I’m just a rude asshole.