[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Bullshit. Batons are lethal if used improperly. It is far easier to beat someone to death with a baton than getting a freak heart attack because of taser use.[/quote]
The human body cannot sustain a current running thru it. That is why we use the electric chair to kill people on death row. Current can interfere with heart muscles with less than 10 milli-amps at 60 Hz. If your body for some reason does not have enough impedance to “slow down” the current you will die.
To my knowledge the only people who have died from a being beaten with a club had cops that intended to kill them. This is not so with a taser. It can happen at the instant it is applied – thus nullifying due process.
Ohh…and what are batons made of now…silly putty??? A Baton can be just as lethal,trust me. Sad you didn’t know that but make an argument about TASER related deaths.
[/quote]
I have never heard of causing a heart attack in a healthy individual with a baton.
When you were tased how long was the device left applied to your body before it was removed? What a joke. I bet I could kill you faster with a taser than I could with a baton.
Ohh…and what are batons made of now…silly putty??? A Baton can be just as lethal,trust me. Sad you didn’t know that but make an argument about TASER related deaths.
I have never heard of causing a heart attack in a healthy individual with a baton.
When you were tased how long was the device left applied to your body before it was removed? What a joke. I bet I could kill you faster with a taser than I could with a baton.[/quote]
Actually…I would kill you faster with the baton and the taser because of your lack of knowing how a taser works. Funny that after all I wrote the only thing that gets your attention is the fact I only received a 5 seconds charge in training. You have no respect for authority…plain and simple. I bet you complain about cameras at traffic lights,too.
I have never heard of a TASER being the sole cause of a heart attack in A HEALTHY individual…I’ve heard of cocaine and other drugs in their system being more directly related to their death than the TASER. Do some actual research instead of making arguments based on your lack of respect for laws and authority.
And I wonder how many perps are alive because cops use tasers. How many perps would have been shop had the cop felt like he was losing the fight? But, instead tried the taser and was able to end the fight with the suspect still alive.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Actually…I would kill you faster with the baton and the taser because of your lack of knowing how a taser works. Funny that after all I wrote the only thing that gets your attention is the fact I only received a 5 seconds charge in training. You have no respect for authority…plain and simple. I bet you complain about cameras at traffic lights,too.
[/quote]
Cops enforce rotten laws and kill people in the process. No I do not respect people who use coercion to force compliance. I hate the rotten cops that abuse their authority. I think tasers add to that brutality.
A cop has to be motivated to pull out a gun or a baton because of either the deadly consequences or the fact that he has to use his own effort. A cop who has been trained to use a taser won’t even hesitate pull it out – therein lies the problem. Not only that but they are trained to use it like a non-lethal device which it isn’t.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
And I wonder how many perps are alive because cops use tasers. How many perps would have been shop had the cop felt like he was losing the fight? But, instead tried the taser and was able to end the fight with the suspect still alive.
[/quote]
Cops are not allowed to use a gun in a fist fight or in the case of a perp being a little too riled up. It is unjustified. In these instances he would be forced to use mace, baton, or his own strength.
Cops do not pull pistols on unarmed civilians. None of the deaths that I have read about stated that the cop’s life was ever threatened.
To my knowledge the only people who have died from a being beaten with a club had cops that intended to kill them. This is not so with a taser. It can happen at the instant it is applied – thus nullifying due process.[/quote]
One hit with a baton on the head is all it takes. Kids get killed by getting hit with a fastball in the chest. Tasers are safer than batons.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
One hit with a baton on the head is all it takes. Kids get killed by getting hit with a fastball in the chest. Tasers are safer than batons.
[/quote]
Are cops allowed to hit people in the head with batons? No, they are not. They are trained to hit at the legs and the lower torso. They are not allowed to openly attack the skull.
As I said before, tasers do no discriminate against sensitive organs.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
One hit with a baton on the head is all it takes. Kids get killed by getting hit with a fastball in the chest. Tasers are safer than batons.
Are cops allowed to hit people in the head with batons? No, they are not. They are trained to hit at the legs and the lower torso. They are not allowed to openly attack the skull.
As I said before, tasers do no discriminate against sensitive organs.[/quote]
First you talk about cops abusing tasers and then you assume responsible use of a baton?
In a fight for his life a cop will hit what he can!
Guys, I think we’ve made all the points we need to. I’ve seen enough posts in this forum to know when someone is arguing just so they don’t have to admit they are way off base. We’ve all probably done it sometime and somewhere.
He’s had some bad experiences with cops that either he needs to vent about, or he’s allowed it to affect his perception of all of them and they’re all jackbooted thugs.
There’s a number of ways to solve this issue, including better training and a tweaking of procedures, but getting rid of them is ridiculous.
This quote is a proper analogy for my thoughts on this whole thread.
“Democracy is the worst form of government except all those that have been tried from time to time”
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
First you talk about cops abusing tasers and then you assume responsible use of a baton?
In a fight for his life a cop will hit what he can![/quote]
Yes Zap, run to the aid of the poor defenseless State. We know they are incorruptible and always right.
The issue is the personnel trained to use the taser. One cannot blame an inanimate object. I know for a fact there have been more deaths by tasers in the last year than deaths with batons. That is the premise for my concern.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
First you talk about cops abusing tasers and then you assume responsible use of a baton?
In a fight for his life a cop will hit what he can!
Yes Zap, run to the aid of the poor defenseless State. We know they are incorruptible and always right.
The issue is the personnel trained to use the taser. One cannot blame an inanimate object. I know for a fact there have been more deaths by tasers in the last year than deaths with batons. That is the premise for my concern.
[/quote]
Because tasers have replaced batons. Your logic is failing you.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Because tasers have replaced batons. Your logic is failing you.[/quote]
Batons have not had the same history as tasers – find me 245 stories in the last ten years of a baton causing a death by abuse from a cop. I can sight one instance in MPLS where two cops wrestled a guy to the ground and proceeded to rape him with a billy-club but no death took place.
If a cop is in a situation to use a taser his life in not being threatened or else he’d use a gun – same with a billy-club. I am not in favor of cops being armed. Period.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Actually…I would kill you faster with the baton and the taser because of your lack of knowing how a taser works. Funny that after all I wrote the only thing that gets your attention is the fact I only received a 5 seconds charge in training. You have no respect for authority…plain and simple. I bet you complain about cameras at traffic lights,too.
Cops enforce rotten laws and kill people in the process. No I do not respect people who use coercion to force compliance. I hate the rotten cops that abuse their authority. I think tasers add to that brutality.
A cop has to be motivated to pull out a gun or a baton because of either the deadly consequences or the fact that he has to use his own effort. A cop who has been trained to use a taser won’t even hesitate pull it out – therein lies the problem. Not only that but they are trained to use it like a non-lethal device which it isn’t.[/quote]
You speak as if you know all cops…remember you only know of incidents with TASERS that involve MISUSE and deaths…you don’t see reports of positive,non-lethal incidents because we have media that tends to only focus on negative propaganda. I didn’t abuse my right to carry a TASER…I used my TASER 7 times in 2 years…nobody died…
ONE inmate complained that he had chest pains after I tasered him and needed to go the hospital…and in the same night he was seen on camera doing pushups and shit in the dayroom! Me using a TASER protected an inmate from being stabbed by another inmate…all my uses were justified. Why? Because I used good judgement instead of “not hesitating” to pull it out as you suggest that all cops do.
There were situations were other officers would say “just shoot him with the TASER” and I didn’t because my own judgement determines how a situation goes…not even the perps judgement determines it…we already know what kind of “judgement” they have.
Maybe you should do some research on what “motivates” cops to use justifiable versus unjustified force…you would have the answers then…but we already know that you’re biased…therefore it would be useless…like your argument to “disarm” all cops…idiot.
If cops had super-soakers instead…you would be crying about that…you just don’t like cops or laws period…you have no credibility for anything you say pertaining to law enforcement or the safety of people period.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
If cops had super-soakers instead…you would be crying about that…you just don’t like cops or laws period…you have no credibility for anything you say pertaining to law enforcement or the safety of people period.[/quote]
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Because tasers have replaced batons. Your logic is failing you.
Batons have not had the same history as tasers – find me 245 stories in the last ten years of a baton causing a death by abuse from a cop. I can sight one instance in MPLS where two cops wrestled a guy to the ground and proceeded to rape him with a billy-club but no death took place.
If a cop is in a situation to use a taser his life is not being threatened or else he’d use a gun – same with a billy-club. I am not in favor of cops being armed. Period.[/quote]
So what about situations were someone elses life is in danger…including the criminal? You just pull your guns out and everything is ok?? And you’re making an argument for the taser being too dangerous? You said so yourself,the taser is not the problem,remember? Thats the only logical thing you’ve said…but like Zap said…“Your logic is failing you.”
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
If cops had super-soakers instead…you would be crying about that…you just don’t like cops or laws period…you have no credibility for anything you say pertaining to law enforcement or the safety of people period.
Cops do not make people safer.[/quote]
You’re right…people that respect humanity and the laws of the land make people safer…which means we are left with what we have now…crime.
Like I said before…those that basically support an anarchy state are more dangerous than tasers,batons,or bad cops will ever be.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
If cops had super-soakers instead…you would be crying about that…you just don’t like cops or laws period…you have no credibility for anything you say pertaining to law enforcement or the safety of people period.
Cops do not make people safer.[/quote]
Lifty, man, you’re going way overboard here. I don’t trust cops either; they enforce bullshit laws to put money in the coffers of the state and they create a small and docile society that receives big brother well.
But…not all cops are evil, just as not all Muslims are evil. cops aren’t evil, they’ve just allowed themselves to be corrupted and are untrustworthy. I trust the bulk of them joined for noble reasons.
How could you wish them to be unarmed? If the cops were disbanded and the citizens banded together to apprehend murderers would you expect THEM to go unarmed?
I mean, I wish we could abolish the beat cop as well, and turn the police station into a small QRF force. But I would never ask them to be unarmed when they dealt with armed criminals.
