[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
<<< Hey Bill, if we type this up, we might could win a nobel prize. [/quote]
Why all the typing? Just tell them you plan to do it.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
[quote]Jeff R wrote:
You tell me, what happens when you increase the work load on a critical shortage of primary care physicians? You tell me what happens when they pack up and leave because they don’t want to be controlled the the U.S. Government? You tell me what happens when you overegulate the industry/decrease reimbursements?
I’ll tell you, it will be an absolute disaster.[/quote]
What?
But there’s at least one foreigner here who seems to believe that Obamacare will increase the supply of health care.
This is actually very exciting because it will be the foundation for an entirely new school of economics, where the supply/demand function is such that amount supplied increases as the amounts paid to suppliers go down.
[/quote]
Yes!!! Silly me!!!
I agree, you are Nobel worthy!!!
JeffR
You guys do realize what the next step is right? I mean aside from crippling the insurance industry and health care as we know it they’ve also taken control of student loans. Which means they’ll get to dictate who get’s the study what and where. Which means they’ll effectively get to assign careers. I can’t wait for my Soma so I don’t have to think about this stuff or realize it’s happening
In the long run, well… First you know how the leftists love Cuba and particularly the Cuban healthcare system. The very mention of the phrase “barefoot doctors” gives them little orgasms of pleasure. Isn’t that just wonderful? Barefoot doctors out there helping the people, who are helped for free thanks to the great Castro.
In the long run, leftists would be perfectly happy for doctors or, if not similarly credentialed, individuals providing health care to be paid no more than an average income, as anything higher than that is of course inequitable.
What, wouldn’t that reduce the supply?
Not if the government has enough power. Same supply at same quality wouldn’t happen. However, similar volume of supply with inferior quality and, typically, longer wait times and with inevitable mismatches between resources and need could be done.
Just for the record,the Cuban healthcare system is fucked beyond belief.I was there in 99,and have family that got out of Cuba as recently as 06.If you were a local and were unfortunate enough to need to go to hospital,you had to go as far as bringing your own bedsheets.Even something as exotic as aspirin was in extremely short supply.So anyone using that as an example of a working socialized healthcare system needs to let that shit go.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
Just for the record,the Cuban healthcare system is fucked beyond belief.I was there in 99,and have family that got out of Cuba as recently as 06.If you were a local and were unfortunate enough to need to go to hospital,you had to go as far as bringing your own bedsheets.Even something as exotic as aspirin was in extremely short supply.So anyone using that as an example of a working socialized healthcare system needs to let that shit go.[/quote]
I refuse to accept you could be right and Michael Moore could be wrong.[/quote]
I watched that movie…and that whole Cuba scene bears no resemblance to any form of reality that I (or my family there) were aware of existing in Cuba for Cubans.Maybe it was one of the clinics that provide for ‘medical tourist’ paying in hard currency that the locals are prohibited from accessing.It certainly wasn’t for the Cubans.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
Just for the record,the Cuban healthcare system is fucked beyond belief.I was there in 99,and have family that got out of Cuba as recently as 06.If you were a local and were unfortunate enough to need to go to hospital,you had to go as far as bringing your own bedsheets.Even something as exotic as aspirin was in extremely short supply.So anyone using that as an example of a working socialized healthcare system needs to let that shit go.[/quote]
I refuse to accept you could be right and Michael Moore could be wrong.[/quote]
When I was born in Rome, the nurses working at the hospital went on strike, my mother and other patients had to change their own bedding and get their own food. <---- Not joking.
Socialism woo hoo !!!
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
Just for the record,the Cuban healthcare system is fucked beyond belief.I was there in 99,and have family that got out of Cuba as recently as 06.If you were a local and were unfortunate enough to need to go to hospital,you had to go as far as bringing your own bedsheets.Even something as exotic as aspirin was in extremely short supply.So anyone using that as an example of a working socialized healthcare system needs to let that shit go.[/quote]
I refuse to accept you could be right and Michael Moore could be wrong.[/quote]
When I was born in Rome, the nurses working at the hospital went on strike, my mother and other patients had to change their own bedding and get their own food. <---- Not joking.
Socialism woo hoo !!![/quote]
You Italians are always on strike…
I’m Spanish.My personal experiences,and my parent’s as well,have always been positive with the socialized health care there.So my inclination,by upbringing and mindset,lean in the direction of the European model.That’s not to say I’m not aware of the looming issues with it.But the one thing I know for sure is that anyone who uses Cuba as a shining example needs their head read.
[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
Just for the record,the Cuban healthcare system is fucked beyond belief.I was there in 99,and have family that got out of Cuba as recently as 06.If you were a local and were unfortunate enough to need to go to hospital,you had to go as far as bringing your own bedsheets.Even something as exotic as aspirin was in extremely short supply.So anyone using that as an example of a working socialized healthcare system needs to let that shit go.[/quote]
I refuse to accept you could be right and Michael Moore could be wrong.[/quote]
When I was born in Rome, the nurses working at the hospital went on strike, my mother and other patients had to change their own bedding and get their own food. <---- Not joking.
Socialism woo hoo !!![/quote]
You Italians are always on strike…
I’m Spanish.My personal experiences,and my parent’s as well,have always been positive with the socialized health care there.So my inclination,by upbringing and mindset,lean in the direction of the European model.That’s not to say I’m not aware of the looming issues with it.But the one thing I know for sure is that anyone who uses Cuba as a shining example needs their head read.[/quote]
I can’t wait. You know why? Guess what is coming next?.. The VAT tax. Once they see that this will not pay for itself the way they thought, er, said it would, they will try a VAT tax. Just like you said, they will model the Europeans. Let’s not forget how doctors will now be working out of farmacias instead of clinics. You know as well as I do, that these “pharmacies” look more like liquor stores than medical facilities, the medical care resembles that of a 3rd world. Now that the government controls health care, they will decide to lower their overhead costs by opening clinics in shit hole offices. Oh yes, I can’t wait for government controlled health care.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
Just for the record,the Cuban healthcare system is fucked beyond belief.I was there in 99,and have family that got out of Cuba as recently as 06.If you were a local and were unfortunate enough to need to go to hospital,you had to go as far as bringing your own bedsheets.Even something as exotic as aspirin was in extremely short supply.So anyone using that as an example of a working socialized healthcare system needs to let that shit go.[/quote]
I refuse to accept you could be right and Michael Moore could be wrong.[/quote]
When I was born in Rome, the nurses working at the hospital went on strike, my mother and other patients had to change their own bedding and get their own food. <---- Not joking.
Socialism woo hoo !!![/quote]
You Italians are always on strike…
I’m Spanish.My personal experiences,and my parent’s as well,have always been positive with the socialized health care there.So my inclination,by upbringing and mindset,lean in the direction of the European model.That’s not to say I’m not aware of the looming issues with it.But the one thing I know for sure is that anyone who uses Cuba as a shining example needs their head read.[/quote]
I can’t wait. You know why? Guess what is coming next?.. The VAT tax. Once they see that this will not pay for itself the way they thought, er, said it would, they will try a VAT tax. Just like you said, they will model the Europeans. Let’s not forget how doctors will now be working out of farmacias instead of clinics. You know as well as I do, that these “pharmacies” look more like liquor stores than medical facilities, the medical care resembles that of a 3rd world. Now that the government controls health care, they will decide to lower their overhead costs by opening clinics in shit hole offices. Oh yes, I can’t wait for government controlled health care. [/quote]
I’m not really up to speed on the intricacies of the plan as it has been passed over there,so I can’t comment knowledgeably.But going by my experiences in Europe,I can say that I’m pretty certain that the tax burden on the individual will increase,and a VAT tax (I assume you mean a federal nationwide tax)would certainly be one of the possibilities.
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
So you are saying that the US should be in dire straights like the rest of Europe. Come on man all the Socialist countries in Europe are worse off than we are here in the US. Europe is a prime example of what Socialism does to country budgets. We do not want to end up like you guys over there.[/quote]
Eh,can you point to a socialist government in Europe,please??And you say you don’t want to ‘end up’ like us…the global financial crisis did originate in your country,you realise?
[quote]wigsa wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
So you are saying that the US should be in dire straights like the rest of Europe. Come on man all the Socialist countries in Europe are worse off than we are here in the US. Europe is a prime example of what Socialism does to country budgets. We do not want to end up like you guys over there.[/quote]
Eh,can you point to a socialist government in Europe,please??And you say you don’t want to ‘end up’ like us…the global financial crisis did originate in your country,you realise?[/quote]
No it didn’t - it emerged in many countries who maintained artificially low interest rates. Ireland included.
[quote]wigsa wrote:
Eh,can you point to a socialist government in Europe,please??[/quote]
The French economy is a good example of socialism run amuk. And it’s not a model most Americans aspire to.
Don’t forget about Greece. There are people in the streets there because they no longer get to have their entitlements. With a debt over 4 times that is allowed within the EU law, it is a shining example.
[quote]wigsa wrote:
I actually can’t believe Americans are still so in favour of such a militantly capitalist approach to economic and social affairs when all you have to do is look at the state of the world at the moment,and even your own country,to realise how it just doesn’t fucking work.
How can you try and say that it’s a bad thing that more people will receive medical care,and that you will have a healthier nation of people as a result??[/quote]
Because I’m still militantly attached to my personal freedom, and the day I want some gov’t agency to mandate what I do with my money after taxes will be the day I have a fucking tag on my toe.
That’s why. It has nothing to do with being uncompassionate and everything to do with wanting to live my own damn life. Because I know better about what I want than some stranger politico-bureaucrat.
Finally, if our previous approach had been so terrible–terrible enough as to “not fucking work” at all–then we never would have risen to global superpower status.
What? You mean these various foreign PhD’s in American Studies – apparently – are really just yelling out criticisms from the cheap seats?
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
[quote]wigsa wrote:
I actually can’t believe Americans are still so in favour of such a militantly capitalist approach to economic and social affairs when all you have to do is look at the state of the world at the moment,and even your own country,to realise how it just doesn’t fucking work.
How can you try and say that it’s a bad thing that more people will receive medical care,and that you will have a healthier nation of people as a result??[/quote]
Because I’m still militantly attached to my personal freedom, and the day I want some gov’t agency to mandate what I do with my money after taxes will be the day I have a fucking tag on my toe.
That’s why. It has nothing to do with being uncompassionate and everything to do with wanting to live my own damn life. Because I know better about what I want than some stranger politico-bureaucrat.
Finally, if our previous approach had been so terrible–terrible enough as to “not fucking work” at all–then we never would have risen to global superpower status.[/quote]
I love how these foreigners like to sit in the peanut gallery with a befuddled look on their faces wondering how come we Americans aren’t tripping all over ourselves trying to be like them.
[/quote]
Yeah, because that is something Americans would never do.
At least we do not start wars because of it .