[quote]jsbrook wrote:
ZEB wrote:
It’s a shame Jesus Christ was so outspoken or you might be a believer.
And you don’t know that I’m not a believer. Maybe I just don’t believe what you believe-that there’s only one right way and it’s the right and obligation of believers to coerce nonbelievers to it.[/quote]
Oh no you are making more comments “in that vein.” Does that make you a liar?
Yes you can be a believer and not believe the proper thing, I understand that.
Sorry but I just don’t buy the answer that your questions are answered in the Bible deal. I’ve read the Bible more than once and my questions have never been answered there. There are too many things in the Bible that I do not agree with.
Don’t get me wrong. I am not trying to bash anyone or anything here. I have been looking for answers for a long time now. And if God were looking for relationships, why make us so imperfect? Why not make us perfect?
CD
[quote]ZEB wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
ZEB wrote:
It’s a shame Jesus Christ was so outspoken or you might be a believer.
And you don’t know that I’m not a believer. Maybe I just don’t believe what you believe-that there’s only one right way and it’s the right and obligation of believers to coerce nonbelievers to it.
Oh no you are making more comments “in that vein.” Does that make you a liar?
Yes you can be a believer and not believe the proper thing, I understand that.
[/quote]
ZEB - Is there a particular reason that on a thread of Christians you are choosing to pick a fight with someone who seems to be a fellow Christian? This is exactly the sort of thing we were seeking to avoid on this thread all together. People have different views and faiths, so that should be respected. Instead, you wish to push your view that yours is the correct one… something that is not very welcome by anyone on these forums, Christian, atheist or otherwise.
Your view is a much more outward expression such that you seek out those who are not Christian to expound on your beliefs. Please don’t try and suggest that you are somehow “right” and we are “wrong” if we do not choose to live as you do.
It’s as if you just want to stir up a hornet’s nest unnecessarily and then use the shield of doing something Christian to defend it.
Kevin
[quote]paul bunyan wrote:
No christian has been willing to properly answer my question so I figured I would try here.
Dinosaurs. How can their existence be explained without contradicting your belief system? It has been proven and established as a basic fact that dinosaurs lived and died millions of years before men existed. This is strange because the bible only mentions creating men. There was no break period of millions of years. It just doesn’t make sense to me. So someone please help me out and explain this to me. I’m not trying to stir anything here, I just really want to know the christian position on this particular subject.
PS. The book of job does not describe dinosaurs. And if you think that then you need to read it over a use an unbiased frame of mind before you make assumptions.[/quote]
I’m Catholic, so I have no problem with any of the concept of dinosaurs. I don’t have a literal reading of the Bible as part of my faith. The Catholic Church has more a positions of Evolutionary Creationism in a weird way. In other words, it was all part of God’s plan in the end. I know this is not necessarily the view of everyone else on the thread. Just my 2 cents.
[quote]paul bunyan wrote:
No christian has been willing to properly answer my question so I figured I would try here.
Dinosaurs. How can their existence be explained without contradicting your belief system? It has been proven and established as a basic fact that dinosaurs lived and died millions of years before men existed. This is strange because the bible only mentions creating men. There was no break period of millions of years. It just doesn’t make sense to me. So someone please help me out and explain this to me. I’m not trying to stir anything here, I just really want to know the christian position on this particular subject.
PS. The book of job does not describe dinosaurs. And if you think that then you need to read it over a use an unbiased frame of mind before you make assumptions.[/quote]
I would be more than willing to give you my personal views on that subject if you are being sincere. You may be surprised that I am willing to discuss it with you without hurling insults at you.
Send me a PM if you are interested.
Christopher
[quote]ZEB wrote:
And that is your opinion. You are judging lorisco.
That sort of sounds a bit like what you don’t appreciate others doing. Maybe you better join prof x over there on the hypocrit forum.
And you did say you were not coming back to this thread but here you are…[/quote]
And now you’re just trolling and looking to evoke an argument in a thread that was rather peaceful up to this point. Please stop.
[quote]awesomepossom wrote:
campdirector wrote:
When Christ was crucified, the Bible says He went down to Hell and took the keys of death and Hell from Satan. [/quote]
Hold up here! That is absolutely untrue. Why don’t you please give me a Bible verse that says this. The only place I’ve heard this was in creeds when I attended another denomination’s mass a few times(I am Babtist, where the Bible is the sole source of truth).
As Christians, we need to keep the Word straight and accurate.
[quote]paul bunyan wrote:
No christian has been willing to properly answer my question so I figured I would try here.
Dinosaurs. How can their existence be explained without contradicting your belief system? It has been proven and established as a basic fact that dinosaurs lived and died millions of years before men existed. This is strange because the bible only mentions creating men. There was no break period of millions of years. It just doesn’t make sense to me. So someone please help me out and explain this to me. I’m not trying to stir anything here, I just really want to know the christian position on this particular subject.
PS. The book of job does not describe dinosaurs. And if you think that then you need to read it over a use an unbiased frame of mind before you make assumptions.[/quote]
I doubt I’ll be able to “properly” answer your question. I’m betting that properly = convince. But I’ll tell you how I resolved it for myself. I say “resolve” because I had that question and I looked until I found the answer. If you really want to know, you’ll have to look too. My answer will only give you an idea where to start.
The Bible says that God created the Earth and everything on it. Boom. God created Dinosaurs.
Christians who really buy into creationsim believe the Earth is only 9000 years old based on the geneology given in the Bible.
(I can hear 95% of everybody gasp collectively.)
Carbon dating and dating stuff based on sedimentary layers is flawed to say the least. Google it, you’ll see. There’s tons of info that supports creation–or rather–there’s no scietific evidence that supports anything other than creation. Every time (And I mean EVERY time the scientists think they’ve discovered something about evolution or the Big Bang theory there’s a big, glaring glitch in it.)
You know that old, artist rendetion of the ape evolving into man? The one that’s probably been in every elementary school textbook since 1960? It was based off of the discovery of ONE TOOTH and that turned out to be from a PIG. I feel lied to.
Creation is not the easy explanation for backward, slack-jawed Christians.
Evolution is the easy answer that doesn’t challenge a prideful belief system.
Ok, wow. I’m done. No more splainin’ from me. No more soap box either! Believe what you want to believe, but I hope you challenge everything until you know it and know why you know it.
And lift heavy!!
[quote]paul bunyan wrote:
No christian has been willing to properly answer my question so I figured I would try here.
Dinosaurs. How can their existence be explained without contradicting your belief system? It has been proven and established as a basic fact that dinosaurs lived and died millions of years before men existed. This is strange because the bible only mentions creating men. There was no break period of millions of years. It just doesn’t make sense to me. So someone please help me out and explain this to me. I’m not trying to stir anything here, I just really want to know the christian position on this particular subject.
PS. The book of job does not describe dinosaurs. And if you think that then you need to read it over a use an unbiased frame of mind before you make assumptions.[/quote]
There are different views on it.
Most literalist interpretations of Genesis base it on the meaning of the word Hebrew word “yom” which means day. Some argue it is a 24 hour period, some argue it is an extended period.
If it is an extended period than that would settle your question on how a literal interpretation would sit with dinosaurs being created long before man.
The Bible doesn’t need to be specific in its creation of anything outside man since its purpose is to deal with man/God relationship. Also the creation story describes man’s creation in detail not anything else.
For a none literal interpretation, many believe in Theistic evolution, and that Genesis is not literal.
I hope I answered your question. If not than please feel free to ask me again, and I will try to help.
[quote]carld57 wrote:
awesomepossom wrote:
campdirector wrote:
When Christ was crucified, the Bible says He went down to Hell and took the keys of death and Hell from Satan.
Hold up here! That is absolutely untrue. Why don’t you please give me a Bible verse that says this. The only place I’ve heard this was in creeds when I attended another denomination’s mass a few times(I am Babtist, where the Bible is the sole source of truth).
As Christians, we need to keep the Word straight and accurate.[/quote]
I don’t recall if there is a verse that states exactly what you are questioning, but in Revelations 1:18 Jesus does state the following. And I have included several different versions.
Christopher
Revelation 1:18 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain
I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Revelation 1:18 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright ? 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
Revelation 1:18 (New American Standard Bible)
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Copyright ? 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation
and the (A)living One; and I (B)was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have (C)the keys of death and of Hades.
Revelation 1:18 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright ? 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.
[quote]campdirector wrote:
Sorry but I just don’t buy the answer that your questions are answered in the Bible deal. I’ve read the Bible more than once and my questions have never been answered there. There are too many things in the Bible that I do not agree with.
Don’t get me wrong. I am not trying to bash anyone or anything here. I have been looking for answers for a long time now. And if God were looking for relationships, why make us so imperfect? Why not make us perfect?
CD[/quote]
Okay, I will narrow it down for you… The answer to your questions is in Romans chapter 9.
[quote]carld57 wrote:
awesomepossom wrote:
campdirector wrote:
When Christ was crucified, the Bible says He went down to Hell and took the keys of death and Hell from Satan.
Hold up here! That is absolutely untrue. Why don’t you please give me a Bible verse that says this. The only place I’ve heard this was in creeds when I attended another denomination’s mass a few times(I am Babtist, where the Bible is the sole source of truth).
As Christians, we need to keep the Word straight and accurate.[/quote]
Take 'er easy!
Revelation 1:18
Jesus says He holds the keys of death and Hades.
Maybe the part of him actually going down to Hell to take them from Satan was extrapolated. It’ll take more exploring.
I was saved into a Baptist church when I was 15. Now I’m attending a Four Square church. The Bible is my source too.
[quote]monkey_space wrote:
OK. That was a lot and after reading over it a few times I don’t expect anyone will even read it. Nothing was meant as a flame. I was just expressing my views on both sides.
Christopher
[/quote]
Well I read it and I think both sides, myself among them, could learn from your example.
So here’s to polite debates and respectful discourse.
[quote]pookie wrote:
monkey_space wrote:
OK. That was a lot and after reading over it a few times I don’t expect anyone will even read it. Nothing was meant as a flame. I was just expressing my views on both sides.
Christopher
Well I read it and I think both sides, myself among them, could learn from your example.
So here’s to polite debates and respectful discourse.
[/quote]
Agreed.
Very well put, Christopher.
Monkey_space,
Beautiful Post. I appreciate your courage to stand up for your beliefs.
[quote]Kuz wrote:
ZEB wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
ZEB wrote:
It’s a shame Jesus Christ was so outspoken or you might be a believer.
And you don’t know that I’m not a believer. Maybe I just don’t believe what you believe-that there’s only one right way and it’s the right and obligation of believers to coerce nonbelievers to it.
Oh no you are making more comments “in that vein.” Does that make you a liar?
Yes you can be a believer and not believe the proper thing, I understand that.
ZEB - Is there a particular reason that on a thread of Christians you are choosing to pick a fight with someone who seems to be a fellow Christian?[/quote]
He’s not a fellow Christian and like one of my kids likes to say…“he started it.”
Actually, he and I go way way way back. I knew him in the late 40’s.
We served in Nam together.
We even went to seperate High Schools together.
(Looks up at the title of the thread)
I’m a Christian. I don’t feel bad about being on a Christian thread.
Are you a Christian? No probably not.
Hey…I just thought of something! You are sticking up for the other guy because the two of you are not Christians and you want to attack me.
See how I figured that out?
Who is the trouble maker now Kev?
That would be you.
If you really don’t like it my views, don’t read my posts then you won’t be so darn bothered.
Are we clear on this?
You can live any way you like. But if you share that with me and I think it’s wrong and I’m in the right mood I’m going to tell you about it.
I do that in “real life” too. Sometimes it sucks to be my friend. 
[quote]It’s as if you just want to stir up a hornet’s nest unnecessarily and then use the shield of doing something Christian to defend it.
Kevin[/quote]
Hey Kevin,
Do you know that if you didn’t post to me just now I would not have had to answer you and then all of this could have been avoided. It sort of seems like YOU and your buddy there are stirring things up on the Christian thread.
I mean do you feel better right now after reading my response?
No probably not.
Hmmm
I got it!
Why don’t you just ignore my posts from now on if they really bother you. Or you can attack everything that I post and then I can post back and we can continue to do this forever.
Either way is fine with me.
It’s all good solid entertainment.
Bye Kev…
[quote]Kuz wrote:
ZEB wrote:
And that is your opinion. You are judging lorisco.
That sort of sounds a bit like what you don’t appreciate others doing. Maybe you better join prof x over there on the hypocrit forum.
And you did say you were not coming back to this thread but here you are…
And now you’re just trolling and looking to evoke an argument in a thread that was rather peaceful up to this point. Please stop.[/quote]
Kevin,
Did you happen to see what the other poster wrote? You know the one I was responding to?
Open your eyes Kev…come on you can do it…open up…
[quote]monkey_space wrote:
carld57 wrote:
awesomepossom wrote:
campdirector wrote:
When Christ was crucified, the Bible says He went down to Hell and took the keys of death and Hell from Satan.
Hold up here! That is absolutely untrue. Why don’t you please give me a Bible verse that says this. The only place I’ve heard this was in creeds when I attended another denomination’s mass a few times(I am Babtist, where the Bible is the sole source of truth).
As Christians, we need to keep the Word straight and accurate.
I don’t recall if there is a verse that states exactly what you are questioning, but in Revelations 1:18 Jesus does state the following. And I have included several different versions.
Christopher
Revelation 1:18 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain
I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Revelation 1:18 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright ? 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
Revelation 1:18 (New American Standard Bible)
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Copyright ? 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation
and the (A)living One; and I (B)was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have (C)the keys of death and of Hades.
Revelation 1:18 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright ? 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.
[/quote]
NICE!
[quote]awesomepossom wrote:
paul bunyan wrote:
Carbon dating and dating stuff based on sedimentary layers is flawed to say the least. Google it, you’ll see. There’s tons of info that supports creation–or rather–there’s no scietific evidence that supports anything other than creation. Every time (And I mean EVERY time the scientists think they’ve discovered something about evolution or the Big Bang theory there’s a big, glaring glitch in it.)
You know that old, artist rendetion of the ape evolving into man? The one that’s probably been in every elementary school textbook since 1960? It was based off of the discovery of ONE TOOTH and that turned out to be from a PIG. I feel lied to.
Creation is not the easy explanation for backward, slack-jawed Christians.
Evolution is the easy answer that doesn’t challenge a prideful belief system.
[/quote]
Damn right! What do all those scientists know that I can’t get from a 2000 year old book? I mean, the only evidence they claim to have about the age of the universe being 13 billion years is the cosmic microwave background, the recessional velocities of distant galaxies, the dynamical configuration of our galaxy in the local group, gravitationally lensed quasars, and high redshift gamma-ray bursts.
Plus, there’s all that scientific evidence for creationism (I can’t remember what it is, but I Googled it, so now I’m a card-carrying expert). And as far as our monkey “ancestors” go, don’t get me started! I mean, all they have is fossilized remains of homo erectus, homo robustus, and australopithecus. And they were either planted by activist scientists, or God himself, just to test our faith.
Preach on brother. Ignorance is bliss, ain’t it?
[quote]miniross wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
Hey, this thread is all well and good, but shouldn’t you guys be over on the Atheist site spreading the good news instead of holding up in here talking with yourselves?
This thread was started to discuss our faith, not crawling into a hole and bashing athiests. There is a time and a place. I prefer praying for them, and allowing the holy spirit to the work that the holy spirit does. Does that mean I shouldn’t go in there? Nope. But if I’m not led in there, it’s the wrong place to be.
If you felt led by the spirit to go into that thread - knock yourself out.
Hi
I will only interject the once, but please dont pray for me. Pray for somone who might appreciate it, pray for starving children in africa, pray for those dont understand anything else but prayer. I appreciate the sentiment, but dont.
But dont pray for me. [/quote]
miniross,
I am going to specifically pray for you! That you will be gloriously saved by the Lord Jesus Christ.
Did you realize that your country (England) used to be the #1 country for sending Christian Missionaries to the World (people like J. Hudson Taylor).
May you find His Peace…