T-Nation Christians

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
202

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
miniross wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
Hey, this thread is all well and good, but shouldn’t you guys be over on the Atheist site spreading the good news instead of holding up in here talking with yourselves?

This thread was started to discuss our faith, not crawling into a hole and bashing athiests. There is a time and a place. I prefer praying for them, and allowing the holy spirit to the work that the holy spirit does. Does that mean I shouldn’t go in there? Nope. But if I’m not led in there, it’s the wrong place to be.

If you felt led by the spirit to go into that thread - knock yourself out.

Hi

I will only interject the once, but please dont pray for me. Pray for somone who might appreciate it, pray for starving children in africa, pray for those dont understand anything else but prayer. I appreciate the sentiment, but dont.

But dont pray for me.

miniross,

I am going to specifically pray for you! That you will be gloriously saved by the Lord Jesus Christ.

Did you realize that your country (England) used to be the #1 country for sending Christian Missionaries to the World (people like J. Hudson Taylor).

May you find His Peace…
[/quote]

Yes, we sent them out (read kicked them out). Note used to. moved on, brother.

203

[quote]AlphaDragon wrote:
paul bunyan wrote:
This is strange because the bible only mentions creating men.

God Created Birds and Fish:
Genesis 1:20-23

God Creates “Beasts of the Earth”:
Genesis 1:24-25

God Creates Man:
Genesis 1:26-27

Man was created last out of everything.

And a “day” to the Lord…may not be a “day” as we define it.

[/quote]

convenient if working to a deadline!

boss: I want that presentation

Me: You will have it in a day.

2 billion years later

Me: here you go boss.

Boss: thanks.

204

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
sandyjoyce wrote:
Wow. All these born again christians on T-Nation. How encouraging!

I got saved (born again) when I was young. This world…so depressing. I don’t want to offend anyone who’s not saved reading this thread, but I would literally swallow a gun if I didn’t have the hope and assurance that something better was coming. Praise the LORD for that.

Best post on the thread[/quote]

!

205

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
ZEB wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
ZEB wrote:

It’s a shame Jesus Christ was so outspoken or you might be a believer.

And you don’t know that I’m not a believer. Maybe I just don’t believe what you believe-that there’s only one right way and it’s the right and obligation of believers to coerce nonbelievers to it.

Oh no you are making more comments “in that vein.” Does that make you a liar?

Yes you can be a believer and not believe the proper thing, I understand that.

Zeb, zeb, zeb I ain’t biting and junking up this thread anymore. You can think whatever you want of me and my relgious beliefs.

[/quote]

Hey…you came back to say that you are not coming back!

Perfect logic!

206

[quote]jsbrook wrote:

I am giving a personal opinion that Lorisco alienates and, if anything, makes me less inclined to embrace relgion. I suspect for others too. I am not asserting opinions as facts as you have done. I stand by what I said about Lorisco as compared to others. That is my OPINION of how he comes across.
[/quote]

…Back again and again…

207

[quote]paul bunyan wrote:
AlphaDragon wrote:
paul bunyan wrote:
This is strange because the bible only mentions creating men.

God Created Birds and Fish:
Genesis 1:20-23

God Creates “Beasts of the Earth”:
Genesis 1:24-25

God Creates Man:
Genesis 1:26-27

Man was created last out of everything.

And a “day” to the Lord…may not be a “day” as we define it.

I meant only men and not dinos. And how come the word “day” is not taken literally in the bible but everything else is?. How can you just pick and chose what you believe?[/quote]

This is why “a day” is not taken literally:

2 Peter 3:8:

"But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day."

In a nut shell that means that God’s time is different than our time. This makes sense as God stands outside of “man made” time.

He could have very well created the entire Universe in 6000 years (as one day represents a thousand years). Or not…

Caution-below is simply my opinion. Nowhere is this stated in the Bible.

When our close family members and friends die they will not miss us in Heaven because of the time difference stated above. We know that there is no anguish in heaven. Therefore, our loved ones who have passed on will not miss us. But how could that be?

While say 50 years passes on this earth only perhaps the equivalent of 5 minutes passes in heaven. Hence, no “time” for them to miss you. It’s almost like arriving at a party a few minutes before your loved one does.

Anyone have any comment on my little theory?

208

[quote]paul bunyan wrote:
AlphaDragon wrote:
paul bunyan wrote:
This is strange because the bible only mentions creating men.

God Created Birds and Fish:
Genesis 1:20-23

God Creates “Beasts of the Earth”:
Genesis 1:24-25

God Creates Man:
Genesis 1:26-27

Man was created last out of everything.

And a “day” to the Lord…may not be a “day” as we define it.

I meant only men and not dinos. And how come the word “day” is not taken literally in the bible but everything else is?. How can you just pick and chose what you believe?[/quote]

But, in a different vein than my other post regarding this question…I’d consider a dinosaur to be a beast of either the land or water or air…wouldn’t you?

This is just an example of “looking for specifics” instead of simply listening to what the Word says.

209

My personal theory:

It is said that “God IS love.” (1 John 4:8)

Thus if we are so close to pure love, the only kind God can give, there can be no sorrow possible.

210

[quote]miniross wrote:
AlphaDragon wrote:
paul bunyan wrote:
This is strange because the bible only mentions creating men.

God Created Birds and Fish:
Genesis 1:20-23

God Creates “Beasts of the Earth”:
Genesis 1:24-25

God Creates Man:
Genesis 1:26-27

Man was created last out of everything.

And a “day” to the Lord…may not be a “day” as we define it.

convenient if working to a deadline!

boss: I want that presentation

Me: You will have it in a day.

2 billion years later

Me: here you go boss.

Boss: thanks.[/quote]

Good thing the Lord is above Deadlines, huh? :wink:

211

[quote]ZEB wrote:
paul bunyan wrote:
AlphaDragon wrote:
paul bunyan wrote:
This is strange because the bible only mentions creating men.

God Created Birds and Fish:
Genesis 1:20-23

God Creates “Beasts of the Earth”:
Genesis 1:24-25

God Creates Man:
Genesis 1:26-27

Man was created last out of everything.

And a “day” to the Lord…may not be a “day” as we define it.

I meant only men and not dinos. And how come the word “day” is not taken literally in the bible but everything else is?. How can you just pick and chose what you believe?

This is why “a day” is not taken literally:

2 Peter 3:8:

"But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day."

In a nut shell that means that God’s time is different than our time. This makes sense as God stands outside of “man made” time.

He could have very well created the entire Universe in 6000 years (as one day represents a thousand years). Or not…

Caution-below is simply my opinion. Nowhere is this stated in the Bible.

When our close family members and friends die they will not miss us in Heaven because of the time difference stated above. We know that there is no anguish in heaven. Therefore, our loved ones who have passed on will not miss us. But how could that be?

While say 50 years passes on this earth only perhaps the equivalent of 5 minutes passes in heaven. Hence, no “time” for them to miss you. It’s almost like arriving at a party a few minutes before your loved one does.

Anyone have any comment on my little theory?[/quote]

The Hebrew word used for “day” in Genesis 1 is “yom” which is always used as a literal 24 hour period, which is why I don’t buy this.

212

[quote]ZEB wrote:
jsbrook wrote:

I am giving a personal opinion that Lorisco alienates and, if anything, makes me less inclined to embrace relgion. I suspect for others too. I am not asserting opinions as facts as you have done. I stand by what I said about Lorisco as compared to others. That is my OPINION of how he comes across.

…Back again and again…
[/quote]

That is YOUR opinion. I am glad that you can advance one!

213

[quote]deanec wrote:
ZEB wrote:
paul bunyan wrote:
AlphaDragon wrote:
paul bunyan wrote:
This is strange because the bible only mentions creating men.

God Created Birds and Fish:
Genesis 1:20-23

God Creates “Beasts of the Earth”:
Genesis 1:24-25

God Creates Man:
Genesis 1:26-27

Man was created last out of everything.

And a “day” to the Lord…may not be a “day” as we define it.

I meant only men and not dinos. And how come the word “day” is not taken literally in the bible but everything else is?. How can you just pick and chose what you believe?

This is why “a day” is not taken literally:

2 Peter 3:8:

"But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day."

In a nut shell that means that God’s time is different than our time. This makes sense as God stands outside of “man made” time.

He could have very well created the entire Universe in 6000 years (as one day represents a thousand years). Or not…

Caution-below is simply my opinion. Nowhere is this stated in the Bible.

When our close family members and friends die they will not miss us in Heaven because of the time difference stated above. We know that there is no anguish in heaven. Therefore, our loved ones who have passed on will not miss us. But how could that be?

While say 50 years passes on this earth only perhaps the equivalent of 5 minutes passes in heaven. Hence, no “time” for them to miss you. It’s almost like arriving at a party a few minutes before your loved one does.

Anyone have any comment on my little theory?

The Hebrew word used for “day” in Genesis 1 is “yom” which is always used as a literal 24 hour period, which is why I don’t buy this.[/quote]

It may mean 24 hours in Genesis, but it isn’t always used in a literal 24 hour period.

From Strongs Hebrew dictionary

H3117
יום
yôm
yome

From an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverbially): - age, + always, + chronicles, continually (-ance), daily, ([birth-], each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, X end, + evening, + (for) ever (-lasting, -more), X full, life, as (so) long as (. . . live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually, presently, + remaineth, X required, season, X since, space, then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), X whole (+ age), (full) year (-ly), + younger.

or from brown Derby

H3117
יום
yôm

BDB Definition:

  1. day, time, year
    1a) day (as opposed to night)
    1b) day (24 hour period)
    1b1) as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1
    1b2) as a division of time
    1b2a) a working day, a day?s journey
    1c) days, lifetime (plural)
    1d) time, period (general)
    1e) year
    1f) temporal references
    1f1) today
    1f2) yesterday
    1f3) tomorrow
    Part of Speech: noun masculine
214

[quote]miniross wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
miniross wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
Hey, this thread is all well and good, but shouldn’t you guys be over on the Atheist site spreading the good news instead of holding up in here talking with yourselves?

This thread was started to discuss our faith, not crawling into a hole and bashing athiests. There is a time and a place. I prefer praying for them, and allowing the holy spirit to the work that the holy spirit does. Does that mean I shouldn’t go in there? Nope. But if I’m not led in there, it’s the wrong place to be.

If you felt led by the spirit to go into that thread - knock yourself out.

Hi

I will only interject the once, but please dont pray for me. Pray for somone who might appreciate it, pray for starving children in africa, pray for those dont understand anything else but prayer. I appreciate the sentiment, but dont.

But dont pray for me.

miniross,

I am going to specifically pray for you! That you will be gloriously saved by the Lord Jesus Christ.

Did you realize that your country (England) used to be the #1 country for sending Christian Missionaries to the World (people like J. Hudson Taylor).

May you find His Peace…

Yes, we sent them out (read kicked them out). Note used to. moved on, brother.[/quote]

Perhaps, minross, that’s why England lost its Empire. That and the retraction of the Balfour Declaration.

Hm, God says “I’ll bless them that bless thee [the Jewish people] and curse them that curse thee [the Jewish people].”

Perhaps there is something to this “Bible thing” huh?

215

[quote]ZEB wrote:
When our close family members and friends die they will not miss us in Heaven because of the time difference stated above. We know that there is no anguish in heaven. Therefore, our loved ones who have passed on will not miss us. But how could that be?

While say 50 years passes on this earth only perhaps the equivalent of 5 minutes passes in heaven. Hence, no “time” for them to miss you. It’s almost like arriving at a party a few minutes before your loved one does.

Anyone have any comment on my little theory?[/quote]

So, your dead relatives become ultra-relativistic particles? Cool!

Hey, if they become photons, then they will be purely relativistic particles (velocity = c), and time will literally stand still!

216

[quote]awesomepossom wrote:
Fellow believers, here’s something interesting I found in my NIV study Bible. It’s talking about some of the theories about the word “yom” which translates to “day” in Genesis 1:1 - 2:4

"There are several theories which interpret the six days of creation. The pictorial day theory claims that the six days mentioned in Genesis are the six days during which God revealed to Moses the events of creation. But the command to rest on the Sabbath (Ex 20:8-10) was based on the fact that God created the world in six days (Ex 20:11)
"The gap theory claims that Genesis 1:1 describes an original creation which was followed by the fall of Satan and a great divine judgment. Genesis 1:2 is identified as a description of the re-creation or restoration that took place… But the command in Exodus 20:8-11 to work for six literal days and rest on the seventh was based on God’s six days of work in creating the universe.
"The intermittent day theory claims that the days mentioned are literal days, but that they are separated by long periods of time. But the command in Exodus 20:8-11 would seem to lose its significance unless all of God’s creative activity took place within a period of six continuous days.
"The day-age theory claims that the Hebrew word “yom”, … translated “day,” is used to refer to periods of indefinite length, not nceessarily to literal days. While this is a viable meaning of the word (Jos 13:1, 24:31; 1Sa 14:18; Job 32:7), it is not the common meaning. Furthermore, the mentioin of “evening” and “morning” throughout chapter one seems to point to literal days. The same terms occur in Daniel 8:14, where the refer to literal days.
“The literal day theory holds that the universe was created in six literal days with no indefinite periods of time in between. Attempts to link the biblical account of creation in six literal days with no indefinite periods of time in between. Attemps to link the biblical account of creation with evolution are not supportable because the order of creation contradicts what would be scientifically necessary for an evolutionary process involving aeons of time (e.g. the creation of plants and trees before the sun, which would provide the light necessary to the photosynthesis that would cause vegetation to grow).”

So there you have it. Whatever “it” really is… Kind of sounds like they’re leaning toward a 6 literal day creation thing, but I’m biased.
Blessings to you…[/quote]

Well, even a “day” is not a concrete unit of time. When the Earth was forming, it was rotating alot faster than it is now. And, Even now, because of tidal braking due to the moon, the earth’s rotational period is slowly decreasing (gotta love conservation of angular momentum!).

Anyhow, I have to give you credit for at least entertaining the idea that Genesis should not be taken literally. I still don’t see why science and religion are mutually exclusive. Just because we live an a universe that is billions of years old, and we share 99% of our DNA with chimps, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t love our neighbor and turn the other cheek. What’s the big deal?

At my university, there are quite a few Christians in the Physics and Astronomy department, and they don’t seem to have a problem with doing science during the week, and then going to church on Sundays.

If you are a believer, then isn’t it God who made the universe what it is? Why should we not look in awe and wonder at his creation, and take joy in discovering how it works?

217

I agree with this. Can someone give me scripural proof of the statement? It sounds like something I used to recite when I was in a different kind of church (before I read the bible and was Reborn).[/quote]

Sorry for the earlier, random-sounding post. The scriptural references I gave were a reply to this post.

218

[quote]swordthrower wrote:
Anyhow, I have to give you credit for at least entertaining the idea that Genesis should not be taken literally. I still don’t see why science and religion are mutually exclusive. Just because we live an a universe that is billions of years old, and we share 99% of our DNA with chimps, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t love our neighbor and turn the other cheek. What’s the big deal?
[/quote]

Don’t go too crazy. I believe every part of the Bible. Some parts are literal, and some parts are figurative or “parables”, but it’s usually not too hard to tell the difference. So there is no debate to me. It’s not that big of a leap. If there is a God (and there is) then it’s not too hard for me to believe he created stuff in 6 days.

But I in no way think that “religion” and science are mutually exclusive. In fact, I think that science confirms what the Bible says.
Huh? Yep, science confirms what the Bible says. BUT–and read this part closely–you have to take ALL of science just like you have to take ALL of the Bible. You can’t throw out or ignore the parts that are inconvenient for you.

Case in point. I have one question for you. If you will answer this for me, we may be able to have an intelligent discussion. Here it is: Do all the planets of our solar system rotate in the same direction on their axis? In other words, do they all rotate clockwise or all counterclockwise?

Oh, but don’t google it. According to you, that source can’t be trusted.
And I like chimps just fine. But cows taste better.

219

I wanted to encourage all of the believers here with some scripture:

“And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up. You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be frontlets between your eyes. You shall write them on the door-posts of your house and on your gates.” - Deuteronomy 6: 6-9

“Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep. Be of the same mind towards one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion.” - Romans 12: 14-16

Also, because there are a lot of men here, I want to mention the book “Every Man’s Battle” by Stephen Arterburn and Fred Stoeker. The book is about how a Christian man can overcome sexual sin. I know that this book helped several men who thought they would never be able to conquer this part of their lives. I am reading it right now and it is excellent.

God bless you all. You are in my prayers.

220

[quote]miniross wrote:
AlphaDragon wrote:
paul bunyan wrote:
This is strange because the bible only mentions creating men.

God Created Birds and Fish:
Genesis 1:20-23

God Creates “Beasts of the Earth”:
Genesis 1:24-25

God Creates Man:
Genesis 1:26-27

Man was created last out of everything.

And a “day” to the Lord…may not be a “day” as we define it.

convenient if working to a deadline!

boss: I want that presentation

Me: You will have it in a day.

2 billion years later

Me: here you go boss.

Boss: thanks.[/quote]

Miniross -

Why are you so angry? What has happened in your life to make you so?

221

[quote]awesomepossom wrote:
swordthrower wrote:
Anyhow, I have to give you credit for at least entertaining the idea that Genesis should not be taken literally. I still don’t see why science and religion are mutually exclusive. Just because we live an a universe that is billions of years old, and we share 99% of our DNA with chimps, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t love our neighbor and turn the other cheek. What’s the big deal?

Don’t go too crazy. I believe every part of the Bible. Some parts are literal, and some parts are figurative or “parables”, but it’s usually not too hard to tell the difference. So there is no debate to me. It’s not that big of a leap. If there is a God (and there is) then it’s not too hard for me to believe he created stuff in 6 days.

But I in no way think that “religion” and science are mutually exclusive. In fact, I think that science confirms what the Bible says.
Huh? Yep, science confirms what the Bible says. BUT–and read this part closely–you have to take ALL of science just like you have to take ALL of the Bible. You can’t throw out or ignore the parts that are inconvenient for you.

Case in point. I have one question for you. If you will answer this for me, we may be able to have an intelligent discussion. Here it is: Do all the planets of our solar system rotate in the same direction on their axis? In other words, do they all rotate clockwise or all counterclockwise?

Oh, but don’t google it. According to you, that source can’t be trusted.
And I like chimps just fine. But cows taste better.[/quote]

Okay, I’m assuming you are referring to Venus, Uranus, and Pluto. Uranus’ axis of rotation almost lies along its plane of revolution around the sun (98 degrees from vertical), so you can either think of it as retrograde rotation, or prograde rotation which has been severely displaced from vertical orientation. Venus and Pluto also both have retrograde rotations.

I’m assuming you will argue that no physical process can account for these facts, correct? Well, have at it!