t-men are from mars..

Training Bodybuilding
121

Yes men and women are different we know that … take it a step even further and say that every person is different and that what works for one might not work for the other. To be serious about anything you need to research what your interested, do a self assesment and then determine what works for you. I just wish that there were more articles that discussed this part of weight training. I will read and listen to anything that anyone says who I know has gotten results. So in the end ladies if you want to look like Kristen then listen to what she has to say, if you want to look like Patricia then listen to what she has to say. We are all different and have diefferent goals and different problems associated with those goals. I will say though that the article is not what I expected from T-Mag.

Mitch Green

122

Well said, MitchG!

123

im tired of hearing people say things like “what works for one might not work for the other.” this may be true but only to a certain extent.

the fact is that squats work! i dont give a shit who you are, you cant tell me that some people should do squats and others should just stick to leg extensions because that is what works for them.

there may be some variation in the program that say Thunder and I follow. but for the most part the principles are going to be the same. simply because certain shit works and certain shit does not! Thunder may have better calves than i and therefore doenst need to dedicate as much time and effort to his calve training as i do.

the bottom line is this: any good program should be periodized, and based on the basic compound exercises, a diet that is conducive to your goals, and a healthy lifestyle.

everyones program will have some variation, but for the most part based around the same principles.

dont use the excuse 'this is what works for me" to do pink dumbell kickbacks instead of dips.

124

… Back again…

I think what some of the people who are opposed to this article are missing is that it’s ok to disagree with the article. What is not ok is to say that the article is wrong. There is a difference. It’s the general attitude by which one conducts oneself. Even on an internet forum, tone and unspoken meaning can be read much the same way sarcasm can be read.

Is it too much to ask to be fucking nice? You can disagree all you wan’t just be civil about it, this is shit I hear from my JV volleyball team. I wish I could expect more from adults.

I think some of you need to re-read the T-man pledge. Nowhere in the pledge does it say that acting hardcore in any way shape or form should be negative. Yet many (not all) of the disagreers have a very negative tone about their posts.

Now… Group Hug and lets not make daddy give you a timeout in the corner.

125

Kristin Reisinger the article you published in t-mag was an excellent article, weal written and informative. The personal attacks on her are uncalled for. If you have an inquiry with her writings this forum is for you. But if you’re sole purpose on this forum is to bash her, GET OUT, BUY! Debate is the cornerstone of a free society, but attacking her is wrong.

126

BUY what?

127

P-Dog,

I totally agree with you, you gotta squat! However some people just take longer to get to come to this conclusion then others. I was refering more to the amount of cardio since that is what most of the posts are disagreeing with. You need a different amount of cardio then I do (Probably, I could lose a few pounds) and I imagine that our body comp goals are different. I am a power lifter by nature therefore I do not do that much cardio if any. My wife like the way I look and I am more worried about how much iron I can push rather then if I have a six pack or not. Without a doubt you gotta squat though!
(PS - Next time I will word my post a little differently.)

Mitch Green

128

I’ve avoided posting advice on this forum, for a while. I have better things to do with my energy than engage in a foul-mouthed pissing contest with anyone (I have teenagers at home for that).

I enjoyed the article, although it was a departure form what most T-Vixen on this forum would pratice. I happen to utilize a fair amount of cardio; not because my diet is not in order, but because as I get older, good endurance and CV capacity has allowed me to maintain and in some cases exceed the abilities I had at a younger age. I do mix up the cardio, and also incorporate it together with my total training program at the time. When forced by weather or other circumstances to be indoors I’ll do several kinds of cardio over a week; spin, HIIT on different equipment, and even occasionally a longer, less intense cardio session or two. Usually I prefer to find a way to be outside mixing it up. This is usually what I try to encourage my trainees to do (both men and women). I wouldn’t necessarily recommend 6 days a week of a long cardio session, because most people I train don’t have that type of discipline (in fact would probably quit after a week or two in total boredom). But, for a fitness competitor or someone who needs a boost to get contest ready I’ve seem this approach work successfully (but not over a long period of time, you need to look to your diet earlier in your preparation).

I’m also a huge advocate of women training basically with compound movements and progressively heavier weight/volume, put together with an overall periodization scheme.

I’ve enjoyed the expert advice of all the contributors on T-Mag. They are knowledgeable and thoughtful people. But, I would doubt that contributors who submit articles to this site would advocate that anyone follow their program exactly without question or modification. Afterall, if any one of them had taken one form of training and stuck with it, they wouldn’t be learning and sharing with us. The bottom line is that to successfully train over time, we must all take responsibility for our own training, understand how our bodies respond, and train smarter.

Keep the articles coming, even when I disagree, I often find useful information in all of them. I appreciate all contributors for taking the time to share your knowledge with this board.

129

I’m actually a big advocate of lots of lifting and just a little cardio. But that is my preference and it works well for me.
Many people ask for advice from me and I just give them simple answers relating to my training/diet. It always seems, though, that eventually, if they do some research themselves and experiment with training, good things will come. Inexperienced people need to be exposed to new ideas and methods in order to test themselves and see what works best personally. I know a few girls who really liked Kristin’s article. If they like that stuff, work hard, and get results then that is great!

130

Perfect! Rebecca and nads just proved that you can disagree with someone without being a fuck about it. Well said you two.

131

It’s not about wether you’re male or female.

It’s much deeper than that. It depends on YOUR hormonal profile, your insulin sensitivity, your muscle fiber profile, your tendon insertion points, your VO2 max, your efficiency at utilizing each energy system, your flexibility, health problems, work tolerance capacity, exercise experience, body composition, limb length, hip and shoulder width, muscle weaknesses and imbalances AND your goals.

Being female alters some of these parameters. Being male alters some of these parameters. Being taller alters some parameters. Being a male with low T levels alters some of tehse parameters. Having little training experience alters some of these parameters. Having high BF % alters some of these parameters.

It’s like saying things are either black, or they’re white, with no shades of gray.

And while there ARE aspects of being a female which warrant different training, it accounts for no more variation in training than if you were a very tall male with Testosterone levels through the roof, incredible insulin sensitivity and very long limbs comprised mostly of slow twitch fibers.

They’re different individuals. THAT’s all that matters.

132

ALL I know is when I am in the gym I train. Most people “workout” and that really points twords women. How many isolation exercises can they do. Bi and Tri curls, leg extensions, the cheerleading kick machine… My god it drives me batty. Never, ever do I see lunges, or squats. Very few rows. To top it off, when do these women ever sweat less they are on the stairmaster? Women are cadio crazy and are definitly ignorant of pre and post gym time nutrition. Every woman I have ever spoken to about nutrition and the gym have NO IDEA at all. At least this article could help a little.

133

That is so true in my area, MightyB.

I’m willing to bet, no, I know that female trainees in my area will benefit from this article. Why?

Aside from the lack of general training knowledge, like post workout nutrition and the metabolic boost that weight training has to offer, what they want to look like is closer to what Kristin looks like, just toned and slightly muscular (you can call this “depleted” or whatever derogatory word you can come up with).

Of course, if your goal is to lift heavier than 95% of men on the planet or want a body that would make Lenda Murray’s physique look like a pre-pubescent school girl’s, then that training article is not for you.

134

“Every woman I have ever spoken to about nutrition and the gym have NO IDEA at all. At least this article could help a little.”

“Aside from the lack of general training knowledge, like post workout nutrition and the metabolic boost that weight training has to offer…”

After all, this article offered up a lot of sound nutritional advice. Oh wait, it didn’t address nutrition at all. So I’m not quite sure how it’s going to help female trainees in that area.

“Of course, if your goal is to lift heavier than 95% of men on the planet or want a body that would make Lenda Murray’s physique look like a pre-pubescent school girl’s, then that training article is not for you.”

Actually, most of us are just trying to be the best, healthiest athletes we can be - a goal that doesn’t differ from a lot of the men. The reason we train with heavy weights is it helps us accomplish this goal; believe it or not, resistance training isn’t all about appearance. The reason we take the time to read articles on T-Mag is because generally these article help us discover additional methods for becoming that better, healthier athlete - sure, there’s a bit of sexist stuff that goes on, but I tolerate it because I really am interested in what authors like John B. and Christian T. have to say.

I personally don’t follow other people’s published programs, primarily because I have my own goals and the capability to develop my own personal programs. Unfortunately, many women have limited experience when it comes to resistance training and nutrition; they know how to do cardiovascular work, but haven’t necessarily been exposed to the benefits of resistance training and proper nutrition.

If there had to be a “women should do things this way” type of article, I honestly would have expected more emphasis on sound training and nutritional practices from a publication like T-Mag.

135

excellent point deisel

136

[quote]
Of course, if your goal is to lift heavier than 95% of men on the planet or want a body that would make Lenda Murray’s physique look like a pre-pubescent school girl’s, then that training article is not for you. [/quote]

You just demonstrated the fact that you are completely clueless.

137

Touche, Thunder.

138

Nice work on quoting out of context, jjfigure. :stuck_out_tongue:

I never said it addressed or covered nutrition; I said it will benefit them because they lack general training knowledge and their physique goals, AFAIK, is similar to Kristin’s. Before you twist my words again, I fully admit, that the article does not cover what comprises general knowledge (which is a subjective term) but it points to Christian T’s article on that.

When I said that they did not know about PWO nutrition and the increase in metabolism brought about by weight training, I meant those to be examples of general training knowledge. I did not say they will get the benefit of nutrition advice from the article.

For Thunder and jjfigure:

I exaggerated about enormous strength and having bulging muscles to try to get my point across about different training goals but it seems I have failed so I will try to say it in a better way:

If a woman’s goal is to “…balance out her upper body with her lower, more curvaceous, bottom half.” then she should give the training advice a try. If it works for them, well and good, if it does not then they should do something else.

However if you are someone who “…wants to bench press five million pounds and be built like a brick shithouse.” then the article is probably not for you.

This shows how clueless you are about the article. :smiley:

139

[quote] The reason we take the time to read articles on T-Mag is because generally these article help us discover additional methods for becoming that better, healthier athlete - sure, there’s a bit of sexist stuff that goes on, but I tolerate it because I really am interested in what authors like John B. and Christian T. have to say. [/qoute]

Here’s Christian’s response to this thread:

[quote] I personally liked the article. And I know that my girlfriend loved it also. In fact, she trains almost exactly as the article describes.

I do agree that to get very lean, women may need to do more energy system work than men, this is true for various reasons (some of which were explained in the article).

My girlfriend does cardio work 4-6 times per week. She alternate between HIIT (1:2 fast:slow ratio) and steady pace cardio (30 minutes or so). Her weight sessions are done with me, and revolve around big compound movements performed for moderate reps (5-8 reps most of the time). We also do a lot of post-fatigue training (compound + isolation exercise).

I did a 7-sites body fat estimation yesterday as well as a body part measure and came up with:

Body fat%:11.7%
Upper arm: 13.5"
Waist: 27" (mostly due to huge spinal erectors)
Hips: 36"
Chest: 36"
Shoulders: 42"
Body weight: 127bs
Height: 5’5"

She is very defined, has striations in her shoulders and pectorals and a very dense upper back.

Would she gain more muscle by doing less energy system work? Maybe… But her trained loads are steadily increasing every week and so is her muscularity. So whatever she’s doing is working for her. I know that if I used the exact same strategy (energy system work 4-6 times/week) I would lose some muscle mass and would not end up being leaner. Plus, I would certainly lose strength. Which is far from the truth in her case.

Funny thing is that we have another competitive female bodybuilder in our gym. Right now she is either out of shape or in a severe bulking phase. There are two chubby young girls who idolize the other female BBer. Anyway, long story short, the girls all believed that doing cardio would eat away their muscle and that they should not do it. 3 weeks ago my GF was training in a tight sport top and leggings … they noticed that she was doing very intense interval work and first thing I know they’re all doing the same thing… go figure! [/quote]

And John B’s response to this thread:
[qoute]Although I’m just “the nutrition guy”, I wanted to weigh in.

First - To Kristin - don’t sweat this type of debate. Welcome to T-mag. This is what it’s all about over here (for better or worse).

Second - Why take your philosophical hostilities out on individuals. Kristin contributes with an article based on her experience and she’s just about run out of town as if this one article represents the whole of who she is as a person.

You don’t agree with 1 article she’s written? Well then it’s definately a good time to start criticizing her style, her physique, anything you can.

Interestingly, in this forum - a place of debates, many are committing the worst debating fallacies ever. The first is called ad hominem - literally translated - against the (wo)man. It means attacking something about a person that’s unrelated to their argument. Don’t be an intellectual midget. Refute her argument in a stepwise manner or dont comment. (likewise, dont support her argument based on her physique or anything else peripheral…support it based on its major tenents).

Funny thing, in her absence, it’s especially easy to set up another fallacy - the straw man. In this one you set up a simplified, childish version of the person’s argument and then knock it down. Equally idiotic (people do this with religion and all sorts of other topics all the time).

Third - With respect to the content of the article - I thought it was pretty good. Some women (some very cute, feminine ones who have trained with me yet who are 115lbs doing 30 chins, who are 120 and squatting 315lbs for 5, who are 110 and benching 205, etc) have trouble with fat loss. Stubborn depots on hips or glutes sometimes need additional cardio work (or interval work) as an adjunct to their heavy training as Kristin suggested. Certainly some don’t. But either way, if the fitness look is your goal, you’re gonna have to train very heavy most of the year (cardio or not) and, in 90-95% of the women, when you really wanna be lean (ripped, whatever), some energy system or cardio work is a must. I’ve very rarely seen a bb or fitness “chick” body that was super lean and “cardio-free”.

But let’s face it, the most fit men and women are “walking anatomy charts” because of a propensity to be that way in addition to their hard work. To be honest, I could never be a big fat guy. I could ignore my body and walk around at 18% with little muscle. But I could never be obese (I suspect many of the posters here are similar). Therefore to suggest that some women or men need to do exactly what I do because “I look good” is a bit nieve. I know that some people who work as hard as me might not be able to get down to 4% or 5% fat and keep the fat below 8% year-round. For them, they may need a bit more cardio, or fewer kcal, or one of a number of additional peturbations.

In addition, whether you like it or not, some of my female friends don’t even want to even look like fitness girls. That’s right - shock, gasp - some of them are interested in looking more long and angular. It’s a whole style of beauty not appreciated here but is very popular in the modeling world. So what about these girls. Should they just start heavy squattin’ with no cardio? That’s BS. Either they eat like a waif and become sickly looking or alternatively they start eating properly and do more cardio (preferably interval) and hard weights relatively infrequently (2-3x per week).

So clearly it is an individual thing. In the end, the only problem I saw with the article is that Kristin might not have been clear enough with her prescription (in terms of who it’s for and when to use it). But it’s also clear that she had no idea what she was getting into when she innocently submitted an article designed to help people reach their goals. After all, this is the Testosterone Inquisition and if you swim against the current in this little pond, one of the big fish may try to drown you.

JB [/quote]

sorry about the using this thread space.

In Health,

Silas C.

140

[quote]
However if you are someone who “…wants to bench press five million pounds and be built like a brick shithouse.” then the article is probably not for you.

This shows how clueless you are about the article. :smiley: [/quote]

Sorry, I can’t argue with a guy with under 150 lbs of muscle at 5’11". It would be a waste of my time.

See that above statement? It’s almost as dumb as your analogy.

Maybe you should try her workout yourself.