Switching from Splits to TBT

Training Bodybuilding
81

[quote]Vegg wrote:
josh86 wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
josh86 wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
A bunch of stupid bullcrap.

You are an idiot…seriously.

Hush!

You are a bodybuilder so you wouldn’t know the difference.

I’m sick of people telling others not to do curls and other direct arm work so they end up like the OP of another thread on the front page with a 48" chest and only 15" arms.

I would make a good example of why you should do direct arm work. I used to avoid curls and tricep work, and where did it get me? I ended up with a 45" chest, a 655+lb rackpull, and arms less than 14" around.
After finally focusing on direct arms work, they grew an inch in less than a month…

Why is it that people think exercises that are supposed to hit your BACK will make your biceps grow? If they are, then you’re obviously doing something wrong…[/quote]

Don’t bother man, he’ll either ignore you or rationalize your experiences away.

neat progress, btw.

82

[quote]Vegg wrote:
I would make a good example of why you should do direct arm work. I used to avoid curls and tricep work, and where did it get me? I ended up with a 45" chest, a 655+lb rackpull, and arms less than 14" around.
After finally focusing on direct arms work, they grew an inch in less than a month…

Why is it that people think exercises that are supposed to hit your BACK will make your biceps grow? If they are, then you’re obviously doing something wrong…[/quote]

Yes, and now look at the corollary to your situation:

You were only able to get big GUNZ because your TORSO was already large enough to support it.

No one with a puny torso will have big arms. It just ain’t possible.

83

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Vegg wrote:
I would make a good example of why you should do direct arm work. I used to avoid curls and tricep work, and where did it get me? I ended up with a 45" chest, a 655+lb rackpull, and arms less than 14" around.
After finally focusing on direct arms work, they grew an inch in less than a month…

Why is it that people think exercises that are supposed to hit your BACK will make your biceps grow? If they are, then you’re obviously doing something wrong…

Yes, and now look at the corollary to your situation:

You were only able to get big GUNZ because your TORSO was already large enough to support it.

No one with a puny torso will have big arms. It just ain’t possible.[/quote]

Typical troll answer yet again. What bodybuilder would every try to keep his torso small and only make his arms grow? Your posts have absolutely zero relevance to anything.

You said curls don’t build mass and that your arms grow fine from back work and such. He proved you wrong. Of course now you to try to wiggle out of the situation…

Every actual bodybuilder tries to keep his bodyparts balanced in size and if you don’t work your arms, they won’t grow like the rest, Period.

84

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
And the mack truck is bigger and “stronger” than the sports car… It can move more weight. The sports car is faster and accelerates faster as well. But no bodybuilder cares because we usually want to get bigger, so why emulate a sports car? Seems like the mack truck is the way to go.

Thanks for totally proving my point with that sports-car and mack truck analogy.
[/quote]

So then you have a working theory to go on.

More energy is necessary to be bigger and perform like a mack truck.

85

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
You said curls don’t build mass and that your arms grow fine from back work and such. He proved you wrong. Of course now you to try to wiggle out of the situation…

[/quote]
Do bench presses and pulls not work the arms? Keep in mind the more weight one can handle with pulls and presses the bigger one’s arms can be. Whether that might take some curls or whatever is none of my concern nor was it the point of my first post. All I know is that BBers do too many curling movements and neglect the more important lifts that actually allow the arms to be big.

Deal with it and move on.

86

LIFTICVSMAXIMVS seems to love ignoring most of what others say completely and just keeps on trying to drag people into idiotic and theoretical
bs arguments. Strange, you really are a lot like nominal prospect… We need to do an IP check on the two of you some time…

87

Some people obviously feed on stupid internet arguments that turn into anger… too bad that those people have found their way to T-Nation.
My advice would be just ignoring them.

88

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
You said curls don’t build mass and that your arms grow fine from back work and such. He proved you wrong. Of course now you to try to wiggle out of the situation…

Do bench presses and pulls not work the arms? Keep in mind the more weight one can handle with pulls and presses the bigger one’s arms can be. Whether that might take some curls or whatever is none of my concern nor was it the point of my first post. All I know is that BBers do too many curling movements and neglect the more important lifts that actually allow the arms to be big.

Deal with it and move on.[/quote]

Really? Seems like Ronnie isn’t doing what you are accusing him of… Nor any of the other pros… Or NPC guys… Or any big bodybuilders in general.

And indeed, a big pull doesn’t seem to guarantee big arms as was proved above by Vegg.

The bench press? A PL style bench may work the triceps some, but why then do powerlifters do extra tricep work? Guess they’re just bored. Benchers are the same in that regard.

BB bench does Jackshit for triceps unless you are doing it flat out wrong (which will result in a shoulder injury down the road).

Also, seems like successful bodybuilders all have big arms, pretty much regardless of attachment-length. But we’re doing it all wrong, aren’t we? Do you also leave comments under youtube vids like “But he’s cheating and would have much bigger arms if he didn’t!” and “STEROIDS!” ?

89

[quote]pinkponyz wrote:
Some people obviously feed on stupid internet arguments that turn into anger… too bad that those people have found their way to T-Nation.
My advice would be just ignoring them.[/quote] ← Then the beginners start following their advice, get crap results and as a result end up hating bodybuilding…
Trying to prevent that from happening is really the only reason for why I respond to his bullshit. In fact, that’s the only reason I’m still posting here at all.

90

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
BB bench does Jackshit for triceps unless you are doing it flat out wrong (which will result in a shoulder injury down the road).
[/quote]

???

Really, that is your answer?

Seems like we keep going in circles here. Though, circular logic does work for building one’s body.

How do I get big? By lifting heavy weights.

How do I lift heavy weights? By getting big.

Though, I guess you can figure out the one parameter missing from the equation.

91

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
BB bench does Jackshit for triceps unless you are doing it flat out wrong (which will result in a shoulder injury down the road).

???

Really, that is your answer? [/quote] Part of it. Care to comment on it directly?[quote]

Seems like we keep going in circles here. Though, circular logic does work for building one’s body.

How do I get big? By lifting heavy weights.

How do I lift heavy weights? By getting big.

Though, I guess you can figure out the one parameter missing from the equation.[/quote]

Again, ignoring the rest of my post? And how come you are jumping from one topic to the next whenever someone refutes your bs? Might you be a troll? Hmmm…

92

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Train to perform in suboptimal conditions? Oh, so you want me to start squatting on a bosu-ball or what? Jesus, just stop with your bullshit already.

Why would you if you didn’t need to? Stop for one second and realize I am not talking to you but to the aesthetic trainers in general. Get a life.

Someone like me who is not a pro BBer, who likes to do other activities besides lift heavy weights but still likes to look aesthetically pleasing would benefit from performance training.

You’re kind of fun to irritate because you irritate so easily.[/quote]

Sorry dood but I know some prop BBers who have a life and do perform other activities outside of the weight room.

Think BODYBUILDING in a BODYBUILDING FORUM…if you want to talk about performance training that doesn’t correlate with BODYBUILDING…take it elsewhere.

This forum is for those who wish to take their bodies to the next level. If you want to talk about training for performance to better your rock climbing or your 100 meter sprint time, take it elsewhere.

Not that performance training cannot correlate with bodybuilding…but generally the training programs are very different.

DG

93

[quote]Dirty Gerdy wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Train to perform in suboptimal conditions? Oh, so you want me to start squatting on a bosu-ball or what? Jesus, just stop with your bullshit already.

Why would you if you didn’t need to? Stop for one second and realize I am not talking to you but to the aesthetic trainers in general. Get a life.

Someone like me who is not a pro BBer, who likes to do other activities besides lift heavy weights but still likes to look aesthetically pleasing would benefit from performance training.

You’re kind of fun to irritate because you irritate so easily.

Sorry dood but I know some prop BBers who have a life and do perform other activities outside of the weight room.

Think BODYBUILDING in a BODYBUILDING FORUM…if you want to talk about performance training that doesn’t correlate with BODYBUILDING…take it elsewhere.

This forum is for those who wish to take their bodies to the next level. If you want to talk about training for performance to better your rock climbing or your 100 meter sprint time, take it elsewhere.

Not that performance training cannot correlate with bodybuilding…but generally the training programs are very different.

DG
[/quote]

Didn’t even see that post before, took it’s time to show up.
He still hasn’t said what performance training looks like, has he?

94

I’ll chime in my experience on TBT here, take it for what it’s worth.

I was working out my whole body 3 days per week, doing GPP (Jiu Jitsu practice for 1.5 hours) on the days in between. I noticed a decent increase in strength (this was following Waterbury’s TBT), but really started to dislike it when it got to the 2x18 range.

A sample workout would be, squat, bench, chins and standing military. I would put so much into my first two exercises, that I would gas out and not get much out of my and not get as much as wanted out of my final two lifts (even with a drink like Surge).

But, like I said, I found that working out TBT style did give me some great strength gains. It’s up to you, seeing how not everyone has the time to get to the gym everyday, but somehow I’m going to make it work since I too am switching to splits.

95

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
BB bench does Jackshit for triceps unless you are doing it flat out wrong (which will result in a shoulder injury down the road).

???

Really, that is your answer?

Seems like we keep going in circles here. Though, circular logic does work for building one’s body.

How do I get big? By lifting heavy weights.

How do I lift heavy weights? By getting big.

Though, I guess you can figure out the one parameter missing from the equation.
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
BB bench does Jackshit for triceps unless you are doing it flat out wrong (which will result in a shoulder injury down the road).

???

Really, that is your answer?

Seems like we keep going in circles here. Though, circular logic does work for building one’s body.

How do I get big? By lifting heavy weights.

How do I lift heavy weights? By getting big.

Though, I guess you can figure out the one parameter missing from the equation.

Again, ignoring the rest of my post? And how come you are jumping from one topic to the next whenever someone refutes your bs? Might you be a troll? Hmmm…
[/quote]

How can what I say be refuted of you have never tried it? n myy initial post I was talking to people who might need a break from typical BB type training to make some additional mass gains by trying something different. Are you trying to suggest that I am wrong and if so, why?

This whole argument started because I questioned why someone would be doing direct arm work for mass on a TBT type protocol. That is it. And the reason I question it is because it isn’t different than what one would normally do on BB protocol. You immediately jumped all over my post because it doesn’t fit with your reality but the truth is there is MORE THAN ONE WAY TO SKIN A CAT.

Try the example I laid out for two months and then go back to your method and tell me you don’t notice a difference in your strength and size. Then you can tell me I am “full of shit”.

96

[quote]Droogan Leader wrote:
I’ll chime in my experience on TBT here, take it for what it’s worth.

I was working out my whole body 3 days per week, doing GPP (Jiu Jitsu practice for 1.5 hours) on the days in between. I noticed a decent increase in strength (this was following Waterbury’s TBT), but really started to dislike it when it got to the 2x18 range.

A sample workout would be, squat, bench, chins and standing military. I would put so much into my first two exercises, that I would gas out and not get much out of my and not get as much as wanted out of my final two lifts (even with a drink like Surge).

But, like I said, I found that working out TBT style did give me some great strength gains. It’s up to you, seeing how not everyone has the time to get to the gym everyday, but somehow I’m going to make it work since I too am switching to splits.[/quote]

And, did tbt make you significantly bigger?
How much strength did you gain, exactly? By how much did your numbers improve over what period of time?
Ever really focused on progression before doing full-body stuff?
How much did those last 2 exercises where you were gassed out all the time improve?

97

Okay I don’t think i am quite getting the stuff going on here…

…if someone’s goal is to build muscle mass… then why wouldn’t they train in the way that has been show by overall results to induce hypertrophy the fastest?

If someone’s goals are to build up their muscles symmetrically, why would they ignore training a particular muscle and hope that it gets developed with everything else. WHy do people believe taht if i dobicep exercises after my back work, it will somehow cause a cataclysmic event in my body where i will fail to add size or strength?

You grow muscle by lifting heavy weight, yes. But why limit yourself? Even powerlifters do arm work, and they train for ‘performance’. Is the act of training my biceps directly going to somehow take away from my real world strength? If i want large arms… why would I neglect training them? To do powercleans?

I myself use a PLing bench style. My chest is still without a doubt the primary mover, infact, in every single press where my chest is included it takes the brunt of the work. WHy would I just do bench and dips and hope that my triceps will grow optimally as well when i could add some direct arm work after my chest (or whenever) and KNOW and SEE the benefits?

When I train back my goal is to (you guessed it) train my back. I don’t to pullups for my biceps. My biceps also don’t get much stimulus from rows. Therrefore it makes sense for me to do curls in order to make sure my biceps get hit.

I just don’t see why people need to think in extremes. Why do you need to act as if direct arm work is borderline evil? It just doesn’t make sense. You need direct arm work to cover all your bases and in order for your compounds to actually keep improving after a certain point. Whatever happened to training not only the heavy compound work… but your arms too?

98

[quote]Der Candy wrote:
Okay I don’t think i am quite getting the stuff going on here…

…if someone’s goal is to build muscle mass… then why wouldn’t they train in the way that has been show by overall results to induce hypertrophy the fastest?

If someone’s goals are to build up their muscles symmetrically, why would they ignore training a particular muscle and hope that it gets developed with everything else. WHy do people believe taht if i dobicep exercises after my back work, it will somehow cause a cataclysmic event in my body where i will fail to add size or strength?

You grow muscle by lifting heavy weight, yes. But why limit yourself? Even powerlifters do arm work, and they train for ‘performance’. Is the act of training my biceps directly going to somehow take away from my real world strength? If i want large arms… why would I neglect training them? To do powercleans?

I myself use a PLing bench style. My chest is still without a doubt the primary mover, infact, in every single press where my chest is included it takes the brunt of the work. WHy would I just do bench and dips and hope that my triceps will grow optimally as well when i could add some direct arm work after my chest (or whenever) and KNOW and SEE the benefits?

When I train back my goal is to (you guessed it) train my back. I don’t to pullups for my biceps. My biceps also don’t get much stimulus from rows. Therrefore it makes sense for me to do curls in order to make sure my biceps get hit.

I just don’t see why people need to think in extremes. Why do you need to act as if direct arm work is borderline evil? It just doesn’t make sense. You need direct arm work to cover all your bases and in order for your compounds to actually keep improving after a certain point. Whatever happened to training not only the heavy compound work… but your arms too?[/quote]

Der Candy…I like you. lol

Good post.

DG

99

[quote]Dirty Gerdy wrote:
Sorry dood but I know some prop BBers who have a life and do perform other activities outside of the weight room.
[/quote]

great! But you miss the point. Why would I, or someone like me, train like a pro BBer for my weekend warrior activities, etc? I do not have hours upon hours to do bodypart splits. I do however, have 2 - 4 hours per week to set aside in the gym. I have to make the most of it. For people like me real BB training is not an option.

Does this mean I cannot train for aesthetic purposes?

100

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Dirty Gerdy wrote:
Sorry dood but I know some prop BBers who have a life and do perform other activities outside of the weight room.

great! But you miss the point. Why would I, or someone like me, train like a pro BBer for my weekend warrior activities, etc? I do not have hours upon hours to do bodypart splits. I do however, have 2 - 4 hours per week to set aside in the gym. I have to make the most of it. For people like me real BB training is not an option.

Does this mean I cannot train for aesthetic purposes?[/quote]

2-4 hours and you can’t fit a proper split in there? Maybe you just suck at making routines?