Switching from Splits to TBT

Training Bodybuilding
21

[quote]forbes wrote:
jck524 wrote:
Just curious this is a bit off topic, but would DC training be considered TBT? i am sorry in advance if this is a really bad question

No, its not. ANY routine that doesnt have you working your entire body in a single session is NOT considered TBT, but rather a split…because your “splitting” things up.

Get it?[/quote]

I’m not sure that is true. I have seen some info from Chad and others that indicates that an upper lower ‘split’ is acceptable for TBT. So I think the big distinction is splits by muscle group; chest and back, back and biceps, etc

22

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
forbes wrote:
jck524 wrote:
Just curious this is a bit off topic, but would DC training be considered TBT? i am sorry in advance if this is a really bad question

No, its not. ANY routine that doesnt have you working your entire body in a single session is NOT considered TBT, but rather a split…because your “splitting” things up.

Get it?

I’m not sure that is true. I have seen some info from Chad and others that indicates that an upper lower ‘split’ is acceptable for TBT. So I think the big distinction is splits by muscle group; chest and back, back and biceps, etc [/quote]

Then why the hell would someone call it “TBT”?

23

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
forbes wrote:
jck524 wrote:
Just curious this is a bit off topic, but would DC training be considered TBT? i am sorry in advance if this is a really bad question

No, its not. ANY routine that doesnt have you working your entire body in a single session is NOT considered TBT, but rather a split…because your “splitting” things up.

Get it?

I’m not sure that is true. I have seen some info from Chad and others that indicates that an upper lower ‘split’ is acceptable for TBT. So I think the big distinction is splits by muscle group; chest and back, back and biceps, etc [/quote]

DC is a split routine, it splits less than more common programs but it is far from what CW is doing.

We work the entire body twice over the course of Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and Monday again. CW will have guys work the entire body(indirectly with a lot of things) Monday, Wednesday.

24

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
forbes wrote:
jck524 wrote:
Just curious this is a bit off topic, but would DC training be considered TBT? i am sorry in advance if this is a really bad question

No, its not. ANY routine that doesnt have you working your entire body in a single session is NOT considered TBT, but rather a split…because your “splitting” things up.

Get it?

I’m not sure that is true. I have seen some info from Chad and others that indicates that an upper lower ‘split’ is acceptable for TBT. So I think the big distinction is splits by muscle group; chest and back, back and biceps, etc [/quote]

That makes no sense. Its all in the name. TBT stands for “TOTAL BODY training”. If I split my body into upper and lower, its no longer TBT because now im not working my ENTIRE body now am I? I’ve effectively “split” things in half.

25

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
forbes wrote:
jck524 wrote:
Just curious this is a bit off topic, but would DC training be considered TBT? i am sorry in advance if this is a really bad question

No, its not. ANY routine that doesnt have you working your entire body in a single session is NOT considered TBT, but rather a split…because your “splitting” things up.

Get it?

I’m not sure that is true. I have seen some info from Chad and others that indicates that an upper lower ‘split’ is acceptable for TBT. So I think the big distinction is splits by muscle group; chest and back, back and biceps, etc

Then why the hell would someone call it “TBT”?[/quote]

Hey Mr Cage, I have no idea. It’s their word not mine.

To be honest. People who think they have a magic bullet for training get very particular about the methodology. Like HIT guys saying that one set to failure is the only way and yet they actually do 3-4 ‘warm up’ sets that they don’t count as sets. So is that technically 1 set? No. But do they call it one set? Yes.

26

[quote]forbes wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
forbes wrote:
jck524 wrote:
Just curious this is a bit off topic, but would DC training be considered TBT? i am sorry in advance if this is a really bad question

No, its not. ANY routine that doesnt have you working your entire body in a single session is NOT considered TBT, but rather a split…because your “splitting” things up.

Get it?

I’m not sure that is true. I have seen some info from Chad and others that indicates that an upper lower ‘split’ is acceptable for TBT. So I think the big distinction is splits by muscle group; chest and back, back and biceps, etc

That makes no sense. Its all in the name. TBT stands for “TOTAL BODY training”. If I split my body into upper and lower, its no longer TBT because now im not working my ENTIRE body now am I? I’ve effectively “split” things in half.[/quote]

Nobody ever says “I’m currently doing an upper/lower TBT program” it’s always “upper/lower split”

-nuff said

27

People are not forced to train their entire bodies. Pre T-Nation total body training referred to training all muscles over 1 day, 2 days or even a week. Since not every person always felt the desire to work there complete body for 3 months.

Sometimes a person might decide to just focus on chest for a a few weeks. So whoever said upper/lower split could’ve been right since you would work on a routine that would train your total body. Now with T-Nation we got a cute little catch phrase TBT so the extremes can argue over the best way to train in a day.

Official TBT T-Nation Definition for you.

28

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
forbes wrote:
jck524 wrote:
Just curious this is a bit off topic, but would DC training be considered TBT? i am sorry in advance if this is a really bad question

No, its not. ANY routine that doesnt have you working your entire body in a single session is NOT considered TBT, but rather a split…because your “splitting” things up.

Get it?

I’m not sure that is true. I have seen some info from Chad and others that indicates that an upper lower ‘split’ is acceptable for TBT. So I think the big distinction is splits by muscle group; chest and back, back and biceps, etc

Then why the hell would someone call it “TBT”?

Hey Mr Cage, I have no idea. It’s their word not mine.

To be honest. People who think they have a magic bullet for training get very particular about the methodology. Like HIT guys saying that one set to failure is the only way and yet they actually do 3-4 ‘warm up’ sets that they don’t count as sets. So is that technically 1 set? No. But do they call it one set? Yes.

[/quote]

But CW’s definition of a TBT program is an upper body push, an upper body pull and a deadlift or squat variation all done in the same workout. Now, some DC workouts might fall into this category, but others do not. Therefore the program itself is not a TBT program (even by CW’s definition), nor would an Upper/Lower split be.

29

TBT is good for gaining mass but not for looking like a bodybuilder. If you are going to bulk then it is good because you need to eat pretty much nonstop while on these programs to see any results.

I would to TBT 4x/week for 2 months trying to work up to 6x/week the last two weeks and then I would deload and do 3 HIIT sessions/week for 3 - 4 weeks to strip off any fat you may have accumulated.

Stick with these mass building compound lifts.

a)Power Clean
Power Snatch
pull ups
Rows

b) Press & variations
Dips

c)Squat & variations
Deadlift & variations
Lunge

d) single limb & assistance/prehab as needed

Pick one from each of the above categories and don’t worry about the order. It should be varied per training session. Do not repeat an exercise in the same training week.

Pick a heavy weight and go all out for 3 - 6 reps. Lift explosively and attempt to get 20 - 30 reps per exercise. Vary the rest duration as needed but stop the exercise after 10 minutes. If you can get 30 total reps in under 10 minutes the weight was too light. Similarly, if you can’t get at least 20 it was too heavy. The goal here is to increase work capacity with heavy weight, consistently.

I usually just add up my total volume for the workout session so I can compare the amount of work from one session to the next – since all my training sessions are 30 intense minutes I have a consistent basis of comparison to know how hard I am working. I try to make sure I am adding total volume week over week.

If you are following a BB style split routine this is a good way to change it up and add some new mass.

30

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
forbes wrote:
jck524 wrote:
Just curious this is a bit off topic, but would DC training be considered TBT? i am sorry in advance if this is a really bad question

No, its not. ANY routine that doesnt have you working your entire body in a single session is NOT considered TBT, but rather a split…because your “splitting” things up.

Get it?

I’m not sure that is true. I have seen some info from Chad and others that indicates that an upper lower ‘split’ is acceptable for TBT. So I think the big distinction is splits by muscle group; chest and back, back and biceps, etc

Then why the hell would someone call it “TBT”?

Hey Mr Cage, I have no idea. It’s their word not mine.

To be honest. People who think they have a magic bullet for training get very particular about the methodology. Like HIT guys saying that one set to failure is the only way and yet they actually do 3-4 ‘warm up’ sets that they don’t count as sets. So is that technically 1 set? No. But do they call it one set? Yes.

But CW’s definition of a TBT program is an upper body push, an upper body pull and a deadlift or squat variation all done in the same workout. Now, some DC workouts might fall into this category, but others do not. Therefore the program itself is not a TBT program (even by CW’s definition), nor would an Upper/Lower split be. [/quote]

not to hijack the thread because this is a little bit off topic but whos that in your avatar sento?

31

Hey guys I’ve been eating lots of chicken, beef and protein shakes every day with enough protein and calories to gain muscular weight but I think I’ve been doing this for too long and it’s getting stale so I was thinking about switching to a tofu and rice cakes diet for a while just to mix things up while i continue trying to bodybuild, what do you guys think would be the best tofu and rice cakes diet?

Note: my goals are to build muscle.
Thanks!

32

[quote]mr popular wrote:
Hey guys I’ve been eating lots of chicken, beef and protein shakes every day with enough protein and calories to gain muscular weight but I think I’ve been doing this for too long and it’s getting stale so I was thinking about switching to a tofu and rice cakes diet for a while just to mix things up while i continue trying to bodybuild,

What do you guys think would be the best tofu and rice cakes diet?
Note: my goals are to build muscle.
Thanks![/quote]

Eat more fat.

33

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Stick with these mass building compound lifts.

Pick one from each of the above categories and don’t worry about the order. It should be varied per training session. Do not repeat an exercise in the same training week.

Pick a heavy weight and go all out for 3 - 6 reps. Lift explosively and attempt to get 20 - 30 reps per exercise. Vary the rest duration as needed but stop the exercise after 10 minutes. If you can get 30 total reps in under 10 minutes the weight was too light.

Similarly, if you can’t get at least 20 it was too heavy. The goal here is to increase work capacity with heavy weight, consistently.

.[/quote]

Why should exercises be changed evry time he lifts? How are you supposed to track progress if you keep changing things?

And exercise order doesn’t matter? Try doing curls, and then once your biceps are fatigued, try doing a pullup, or and pulling exercise for that matter. Exercise order IS important.

I also noticed your last post where you said “eat for fat”. Um, I believe the guy was joking about his “rice cakes and tofu” diet. Didn’t catch that I guess.

34

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
forbes wrote:
jck524 wrote:
Just curious this is a bit off topic, but would DC training be considered TBT? i am sorry in advance if this is a really bad question

No, its not. ANY routine that doesnt have you working your entire body in a single session is NOT considered TBT, but rather a split…because your “splitting” things up.

Get it?

I’m not sure that is true. I have seen some info from Chad and others that indicates that an upper lower ‘split’ is acceptable for TBT. So I think the big distinction is splits by muscle group; chest and back, back and biceps, etc

Then why the hell would someone call it “TBT”?

Hey Mr Cage, I have no idea. It’s their word not mine.

To be honest. People who think they have a magic bullet for training get very particular about the methodology. Like HIT guys saying that one set to failure is the only way and yet they actually do 3-4 ‘warm up’ sets that they don’t count as sets. So is that technically 1 set? No. But do they call it one set? Yes.

[/quote]

I dont think Chad has ever said that upper/lower split are considered tbt, but that upper/lower split and tbt had some similar benefits such as working a lot of muscle per session, higher frequency, etc…

35

[quote]mr popular wrote:
Hey guys I’ve been eating lots of chicken, beef and protein shakes every day with enough protein and calories to gain muscular weight but I think I’ve been doing this for too long and it’s getting stale

so I was thinking about switching to a tofu and rice cakes diet for a while just to mix things up while i continue trying to bodybuild, what do you guys think would be the best tofu and rice cakes diet?

Note: my goals are to build muscle.
Thanks![/quote]

why are you on this thread? start your own.

as for the rest of you, I appreciate the opinions, I really do, but it’s getting a bit off track. after the first couple comments, I haven’t really learned anything new, except how to argue better.

36

[quote]curax wrote:
Wouldn’t it make sense to use TBT while leaning out, as you cannot really expect to put on much muscle in a calorie deficit, just maintain what you have achieved so far? Maybe even increase strength.[/quote]

my thoughts exactly. You’re putting less daily volume on a muscle in a caloric deficit, but the same volume spread out through the week to help preserve.

37

[quote]Xander89 wrote:
mr popular wrote:
Hey guys I’ve been eating lots of chicken, beef and protein shakes every day with enough protein and calories to gain muscular weight but I think I’ve been doing this for too long and it’s getting stale

so I was thinking about switching to a tofu and rice cakes diet for a while just to mix things up while i continue trying to bodybuild, what do you guys think would be the best tofu and rice cakes diet?

Note: my goals are to build muscle.
Thanks!

why are you on this thread? start your own.

as for the rest of you, I appreciate the opinions, I really do, but it’s getting a bit off track. after the first couple comments, I haven’t really learned anything new, except how to argue better.[/quote]

I think you missed his point.

Re-read what he wrote and relate it to this thread.

38

[quote]crod266 wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
forbes wrote:
jck524 wrote:
Just curious this is a bit off topic, but would DC training be considered TBT? i am sorry in advance if this is a really bad question

No, its not. ANY routine that doesnt have you working your entire body in a single session is NOT considered TBT, but rather a split…because your “splitting” things up.

Get it?

I’m not sure that is true. I have seen some info from Chad and others that indicates that an upper lower ‘split’ is acceptable for TBT. So I think the big distinction is splits by muscle group; chest and back, back and biceps, etc

Then why the hell would someone call it “TBT”?

Hey Mr Cage, I have no idea. It’s their word not mine.

To be honest. People who think they have a magic bullet for training get very particular about the methodology. Like HIT guys saying that one set to failure is the only way and yet they actually do 3-4 ‘warm up’ sets that they don’t count as sets. So is that technically 1 set? No. But do they call it one set? Yes.

But CW’s definition of a TBT program is an upper body push, an upper body pull and a deadlift or squat variation all done in the same workout. Now, some DC workouts might fall into this category, but others do not. Therefore the program itself is not a TBT program (even by CW’s definition), nor would an Upper/Lower split be.

not to hijack the thread because this is a little bit off topic but whos that in your avatar sento?[/quote]

Rory Leidelmeyer.

/hijack

39

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
Xander89 wrote:
mr popular wrote:
Hey guys I’ve been eating lots of chicken, beef and protein shakes every day with enough protein and calories to gain muscular weight but I think I’ve been doing this for too long and it’s getting stale

so I was thinking about switching to a tofu and rice cakes diet for a while just to mix things up while i continue trying to bodybuild, what do you guys think would be the best tofu and rice cakes diet?

Note: my goals are to build muscle.
Thanks!

why are you on this thread? start your own.

as for the rest of you, I appreciate the opinions, I really do, but it’s getting a bit off track. after the first couple comments, I haven’t really learned anything new, except how to argue better.

I think you missed his point.

Re-read what he wrote and relate it to this thread.
[/quote]

ah got it, got it. stopped reading after the first several words because I thought he was hijacking my thread and didn’t care what his plans were. my bad.

but while his intentions are good, he’s wrong. for example, lifting with one routine for too long is “wrong” according to what I’ve seen on T-Nation for years, even if you make great gains after a few weeks.

after a few months, you’ll stall. it’s true that chicken and protein shakes are good for you, but you can’t compare that to lifting styles. it’s similar, but not the same. some people gain from changing between TBT and splits, some don’t. it’s not universal.

but this thread isn’t to dispute that issue, so I’ll get back on track.

any tips on exercises to use? any personal routines that have at least maintained PR’s?

40

I just want to say here that you don’t need to switch up a plan every few weeks just because an author says so. Changes will of course need to made, but switching out exercises, changing your rep schemes etc, will provide your body with enough of an alteration to keep growing. You don’t need to completely revamp your program to see progress.

There is a reason why most big people find the way of training that they feel they grow best on (usually some sort of split routine) and stick with it for years, making small adjustments when necessary.