Switching Bench for Flyes?

[quote]fightingtiger wrote:

undeadlift wrote:

I don’t see why my weight should change the fact that a lot of people I know benefited from pre-fatigue.

What does your weight have to do with it? Remember this?

undeadlift wrote:
I did a similar thing for my lats because I had a similar problem to yours, and it worked great.

And this?

undeadlift wrote:
You’ll decrease the weight a lot, but it will isolate the pecs. I tried this, and I felt it a lot more in my chest than anywhere else. I love the feeling and the results it gives me.

I disagree with your pre-fatigue claim. Like Gironda’s neck press, it works. I personally used this method, and I know other people who did as well, and we all had success in correcting our problem areas. I’ve never known anyone who didn’t get this benefit from pre-fatigue.

You weigh 145 lbs. You do not have �??problem areas�?? nor do you have �??strong areas�??. You posted in another thread about going on a cutting phase. At 145 lbs, you haven�??t figured out what works for you yet, let alone for other people.

I am tired of seeing 140-150 lbs armchair bodybuilders tell others how to really �??blast their chest/arms/lats, etc�?? when they themselves weigh little more than the average household pet. Im not saying that trainers and experts have to be jacked themselves, but a 145 lb teenager acting as a trainer makes about as much sense as an alcoholic acting like a life coach.
[/quote]

To hell with my advice just because of my weight then. Maybe I should just add 50 more pounds in my profile weight so my advice would sound nice.

So you’re basically saying that I should be at least X pounds so that I can give advice that works? Man, if you think that way, you might as well say that Ronnie Coleman is better than CT in giving advice because he weighs more.

And as far as “it works for me” is concerned, I did say that it worked for others as well, people who weigh at least 40 more pounds than I do. It wouldn’t make a difference if I gave the advice compared to if they gave it.

If you wanna know why I’m just 145 pounds, I’ll let you know. I was a malnourished child and weighed 120 pounds before I started training in the gym a year ago (my profile says a few years, but I did para-military stuff before that). I’m plagued with thyroid levels bordering hyperthyrodism. My calorie intake is limited to the amount of money I have. These things among many others made it so hard for me to gain 25 pounds of muscle in 1 year without the slightest increase in my body fat.

Oh yeah, did I say that my advice is the be-all end-all? I don’t think so. I’m not claiming to be an expert because I’m not, but weight shouldn’t quantify or limit the results people have been getting.

Ok. Listen. At 145 lbs, nothing has really “worked for you” yet. You missed the part where I said size isnt necessarily a qualification. EXPERIENCE is. CT is 205 at a low bodyfat and a competitive O-lifter. That means he has experience. A 145 lb teenager that has been lifting for a year does not.

Gaining 25 lbs shouldnt have been that difficult if you were really 120 lbs and malnourished. You just had to start eating. Props for that, a good portion of the new posters here havent figured that one out.

The problem I have with many of your posts is that you give complicated advice to people who do not need it. Suggesting a giant set leg routine to a beginner who wants to add size to his legs is, in reality, most likely going to lead to that beginner either overtraining or getting so tied up in this minor detail or that minor detail that he will confuse himself to all hell and give up.

A better answer to that question would have been “squat and deadlift regularly and consistently add weight to the bar”. Iv got a good article you and anyone else should read if they are interested in gaining mass. PM me if you want it.

This shit is not complicated, you do not have to sweat over doing x many reps x times a week at a x/y/z tempo while the moon is entering the house of aquarius or some shit. You pick something up and you make sure that its heavier than the last time you picked a heavy something up. You eat, you rest, and then you repeat.

The two most important aspects are intensity and progression. Without those two, you can have all of the fancy periodization, programming, and science in the world, and youre still just twittling your thumbs.

[quote]fightingtiger wrote:
The problem I have with many of your posts is that you give complicated advice to people who do not need it. Suggesting a giant set leg routine to a beginner who wants to add size to his legs is, in reality, most likely going to lead to that beginner either overtraining or getting so tied up in this minor detail or that minor detail that he will confuse himself to all hell and give up.[/quote]

I see. Just to clarify, I only said superset, not giant set. More importantly, I never told those people to actually do it anytime soon (I think I said this on the thread). I’m just sharing some different things about training legs simply because all the first 20 people who posted have said the same thing about doing squats and deadlifts, which I agree with 100% and don’t bother repeating. In other words, I’m sharing stuff that the OP might be able to use in the future if he plateaus with the basics.

Sure, I have only 1 year under my belt, but within that year, I’ve done my research and tried out stuff. I’ve talked to other people, who have years more experience than me, on how they train, and based on the knowledge they endow on me, I try to help other people who I feel can benefit from the knowledge. In other words, thanks to what I learned from more experienced people, I am capable of giving decent advice despite my training age.

Well, it’s a little more complicated than eating more and training hard. If you got to know my personal life, you’ll know why I have to stay 145 pounds. PM me if you’re interested.

BTW, I weighed in today at 148, 2 weeks after I weighed 145. I think it’s all muscle since I still measure 8% BF.

[quote]undeadlift wrote:

If you wanna know why I’m just 145 pounds, I’ll let you know. I was a malnourished child and weighed 120 pounds before I started training in the gym a year ago (my profile says a few years, but I did para-military stuff before that). I’m plagued with thyroid levels bordering hyperthyrodism. My calorie intake is limited to the amount of money I have. These things among many others made it so hard for me to gain 25 pounds of muscle in 1 year without the slightest increase in my body fat.
[/quote]

undeadlift,

Good job on your gains so far. I was a skinny-ass kid as well. As were a lot of people on this site. The weight will come, keep working hard and eating what you can. Your at the right place to learn how to do it properly.

By the way, the money will probably come too. Again, keep working hard.

Good luck

[quote]undeadlift wrote:
fightingtiger wrote:
The problem I have with many of your posts is that you give complicated advice to people who do not need it. Suggesting a giant set leg routine to a beginner who wants to add size to his legs is, in reality, most likely going to lead to that beginner either overtraining or getting so tied up in this minor detail or that minor detail that he will confuse himself to all hell and give up.

I see. Just to clarify, I only said superset, not giant set. More importantly, I never told those people to actually do it anytime soon (I think I said this on the thread). I’m just sharing some different things about training legs simply because all the first 20 people who posted have said the same thing about doing squats and deadlifts, which I agree with 100% and don’t bother repeating. In other words, I’m sharing stuff that the OP might be able to use in the future if he plateaus with the basics.

Sure, I have only 1 year under my belt, but within that year, I’ve done my research and tried out stuff. I’ve talked to other people, who have years more experience than me, on how they train, and based on the knowledge they endow on me, I try to help other people who I feel can benefit from the knowledge. In other words, thanks to what I learned from more experienced people, I am capable of giving decent advice despite my training age.

At 145 lbs, nothing has really “worked for you” yet.

Well, it’s a little more complicated than eating more and training hard. If you got to know my personal life, you’ll know why I have to stay 145 pounds. PM me if you’re interested.

BTW, I weighed in today at 148, 2 weeks after I weighed 145. I think it’s all muscle since I still measure 8% BF.[/quote]

Understand that Im not trying to get down on your progress at all. I have weighed as little as 135 in the past. I know what its like to be stuck at one weight and I also know what its like to have to pay for all of your own food.

I just think a lot of people on this site, yourself included, would be a lot better off if they stopped overthinking every little aspect of their training and kept it simple. PM me if you want that article.

[quote]fightingtiger wrote:
Understand that Im not trying to get down on your progress at all. I have weighed as little as 135 in the past. I know what its like to be stuck at one weight and I also know what its like to have to pay for all of your own food.

I just think a lot of people on this site, yourself included, would be a lot better off if they stopped overthinking every little aspect of their training and kept it simple. PM me if you want that article.[/quote]

Yeah, overthinking might lead to paralysis by analysis syndrome, and this is what people should look out. Although I may seem like it, I don’t overthink my training. I’m busy all day doing school stuff, and it’s only when I get to the gym that I really take my training seriously.

Anyway, if it would help the OP, you might wanna post the link to the article here as well.

Off topic: I didn’t know Steve Jobs had such strong words…

The reason why ppl have more luck with db is because they naturally take a position that is closer to the Gironda press.

Try it, do a bar bench press look where the bar touches, now do the same with db (not flyes, regular press) and draw an imaginary line between the db’s ad the bottom, I’ll bet the line is much closer to the neck and might even go through it.

Your instinct is to try db and i agree, only don’t limit it to flyes, try regular db press.

Im not posting this to convince people to try DC training, but rather because this article has a lot of good sound logic in it that people seem to overlook when making decisions related to their training.

[quote]DC training * From Dante himself

Bodybuilding as a whole is extreme and you must go to extreme lengths to be an out of the ordinary bodybuilder in this activity. The human body in no way wants to be 270 to 330 lbs of extreme muscularity. It wants to be a comfortable 155 to 180 lbs and will do a lot to keep a person at that homeostasis level. Jon Parillo was on the right track years ago when he was trying to make bodybuilders into food processing factories. It takes extreme amounts of food (protein), extremely heavy weights, sometimes extreme supplementation, (the choice) of extreme drugs, and other extreme situations to take a person who by evolution and genetics should be 180 pounds and make him into a hardcore 3 hundred pounds. OK first I have to go over some principles I believe in regarding training and I?ll hit more on training details later on.

a) I believe he who makes the greatest strength gains (in a controlled fashion) as a bodybuilder, makes the greatest muscle gains. Note: I said strength gains–everyone knows someone naturally strong who can bench 400 yet isn’t that big. Going from a beginning 375 bench to 400 isn’t that great of a strength gain and won?t result in much of a muscle gain. But if I show you someone who went from 150 to 400 on a bench press, that guy will have about 2.5 inches more of muscle thickness on his pecs. That is an incredible strength gain and will equal out into an incredible muscle gain.

Ninety-nine percent of bodybuilders are brainwashed that they must go for a blood pump and are striving for that effect–(go up and down on your calves 500 times and tell me if your calves got any bigger). And those same 99% in a gym stay the same year after year. It’s because they have no plan, they go in, get a pump and leave.

They give the body no reason to change. Powerbodybuilders and powerlifters plan to continually get stronger and stronger on key movements. The body protects itself from ever increasing loads by getting muscularly bigger=adaption.

I?M going to repeat this and hammer it home because of its importance: THE PEOPLE WHO MAKE THE GREATEST STRENGTH GAINS OVER TIME WILL MAKE THE GREATEST SIZE GAINS OVER TIME ACCORDING TO THEIR GENETIC POTENTIAL. If you reading this never get anywhere close to your ultimate strength levels (AT WHATEVER REP RANGE) you will never get to your utmost level of potential size.

b) I haven’t seen a guy who can squat 500 for 20 reps, bench press 500 for 15 and deadlift 500 for 15 who was small yet —but I have seen a lot and I mean a lot of people in the gym and on these Internet forums that are a buck 65 or two and change, shouting that you don’t have to lift heavy to get big (in rare cases you will see a naturally strong powerlifter who has to curb calories to stay in a weight class and that is the reason he doesn’t get bigger).

c) Training is all about adaption. In simple terms you lift a weight and your muscle has one of 2 choices, either tear completely under the load (which is incredibly rare and what we don’t want) or the muscle lifts the weight and protects itself by remodeling and getting bigger to protect itself against the load (next time). If the weight gets heavier, the muscle has to again remodel and get bigger again to handle it.

You can superset, superslow, giant set, pre exhaust all day long but the infinite adaption is load—meaning heavier and heavier weights is the only infinite thing you can do in your training. Intensity is finite. Volume is finite (or infinite if you want to do 9000 sets per bodypart)…everything else is finite.

The Load is infinite and heavier and heavier weights used (I DON’T GIVE A CRAP WHAT SOME BUCK 58 POUND WRITER FROM FLEX MAGAZINE SAYS) will make the biggest bodybuilder (add high protein, glutamine and drugs to the mix and you have one large person).

d) The largest pro bodybuilders in the last 10 years (outside of Paul Dillett who is a genetic alien and I think could grow off of mowing lawns) are also the very strongest (Kovacs, Prince, Coleman, Yates, Francois, Nasser (although he trains lighter now).

For anyone who argues that they have seen so and so pro bodybuilder and he trains light—well I will bet you he isn’t gaining rapid size anymore and that his greatest size increases were when he was training **** heavy going for his pro card. Of course he will convince himself and others that he is “making the best gains of his career” though because no one likes to think what they are presently doing isn’t working and they are running in place.

Sadly heavy drug use can make up for a lot of training fallacies and leave people still uninformed on how they became massive. Ronnie Coleman is definitely in an elite class of muscle building genetically yet do you see him doing isolation exercises with light weights to be the most massive bodybuilder on this planet? NOPE!

Ever see his video? 805 deadlifts for 2 reps, 765 for 6 reps deads, front squats with 600LBS for 6, 200LB dumbbells being thrown all over the place for chest, military presses 315 for 12 and a double with 405. I believe Coleman was clean or close to it when he was powerlifting and when he was an amateur bodybuilder.

He won the Natural Team Universe and got his pro card at roughly 220-230LBS shredded to the bone and if that was natural or close to it–that’s about 270LBS offseason and would be a huge natural bodybuilder. Since that time he has hooked up with Chad Nichols and blasted (with juice) up to his current 265LBS contest weight and 320LBS offseason.

He trains heavier now than he ever did! The man has used extremely heavy weights and powerlifting fundamentals (even with his superior genetics for muscle size) to become the most impressive bodybuilder walking the globe. Well, if the man with some of the best genetics to build muscle out there is using back breaking weights trying to get bigger isn’t that more of a reason the mere mortals of genetics in this sport should maybe take note?

There are other pros out there with genetics on par with Coleman and using the same amount of drugs yet aren’t pushing the limits with poundage’s in training as does Coleman. You figure it out then, why is he absolutely crushing everyone onstage by outmuscling them if all things besides training are equal?

e) Who is the last incredibly massive bodybuilder you have seen (juice or not) who couldn’t incline 405, squat 550, deadlift 550. I am talking freak-massive ALA Dorian, Kovacs, Francois, etc…there are slew of guys in gyms using mega amounts of steroids on par with pros who are no where close to a pro’s size, some with mediocre genetics, yet some with superb genetics.

But the pro’s using weights that are up there in the stratosphere are by and large the most freakish. These are pros we are talking about, who all have superior genetics for muscle accumulation. Do you think Yates, Francois, Cormier etc all just had natural genetics for incredible strength, not ever having to work for it? Jean Paul Guilliame is the only clean professional bodybuilder I ever trusted to be truly natural.

The man is a smaller pro training without the juice yet trains incredibly heavy for his size–405LB squats rock bottom for up to 20 reps and his wheels are incredible. Flex Wheeler and Cris Cormier were the same height, the drugs are equal, Flex trained light, Cormier trains heavy. Cormier outweighs Wheeler onstage by 30LBS!

Genetically, Wheeler is unsurpassed in pro bodybuilding, I think you already know the answer to this one–case closed. I usually don’t like to use pro bodybuilders for examples but in these cases, my points are proven.

For those training clean-if you got guys doing massive amounts of steroids in gyms around America, who are not putting on appreciable size because they train with light weights, what in your right mind could make you think you will gain appreciable amounts of muscle mass as a natural training light?!?!

One million people in the United States have admitted to using steroids–1 million!!! That is one out of every 300 people walking around. How many big people do you see out there? Not many. It sure isn’t close to 1 million---- because 98% of bodybuilders have no clue what needs to be done training and eating wise to become elite.

f) Please think of the times when you made the best size gains—the first time is in the first 2 years of lifting WHEN YOU MAKE YOUR BEST STRENGTH GAINS TOO! Then things start to slow down… What’s the next time?–You start using steroids and boom what happens? YOUR TRAINING WEIGHTS GO FLYING UP. And you get dramatically bigger! (I?M taking into effect protein assimilation, recovery etc also).

The greatest strength gains you make will result in also the most rapid size gains (if you?re taking in the protein requirements of a 12 year old girl scout then you can discount yourself from the above group).

g) I believe in Powerbuilding not bodybuilding–using techniques that build the most strength gains in the fastest time possible while using the most effective exercises for that person. I am positive I could take 2 twins–have the first one do his own thing training wise, but using the same drugs, supplements and nutrition as the twin I train…come back a year later and the twin I trained would have 25LBS more muscle.

h) I’ve seen powerlifters (who catch a lot of guff from bodybuilders for being “fat” diet down and come in and destroy bodybuilders in bodybuilding shows time and time again. Over and over. Powerlifters and Powerbodybuilders are by far the thickest guys onstage when and if they decide to enter bodybuilding shows.

i) Heavy is relative–it doesn’t mean 3 reps — it means as heavy as you can go on that exercise no matter if it is 5 reps or 50 reps. I personally like to do hack squats for 20 reps but I use about 6 plates on each side rock bottom–that’s as heavy as I can go on that exercise for 20 reps.

I could do sets of 6 and probably use maybe 8 or 9 plates a side but my legs (and most people I train) grow best from heavy and 8-50 reps. The day you can squat 400LBS for 20 deep reps will be the day you are no longer complaining about your leg size.

j) No matter what the method someone uses to gain super strength gains-it?s imperative they do so. Again if you put someone out on a deserted island with 135LBS of weights he can superset, giant set, high rep, superslow etc etc squats, deadlifts and benches to his hearts delight…the sad story is his gains will quickly come to a halt because his limiting factor is the amount of strength he will gain.

He has 135LBS to work with. You take that same guy on a deserted island and give him squats deadlifts, and benches and an unlimited weight supply that he constantly pushes, in 5 years I’ll show you a big Gilligan.

k) I think the biggest fallacy in bodybuilding is “changing up” “keeping the body off balance”–you can keep the body off balance by always using techniques or methods that give your body a reason to get bigger=strength.

If you don’t write down your weights and every time you enter the gym you go by feel and do a different workout (like 98% of the gym members who never change do now) what has that done? Lets say Mr. Hypothetical gym member does 235 for 9 on the bench press this week, “tries to keep his body guessing” by doing 80LBS for 13 on flyes next week, 205 for 11 on inclines the week after, 245 on hammer press for 12 the week after that --and so on and so on—there is only a limited number of exercises you can do.

Two months later when he does bench presses again and does 235 for 8 or 9 has he gained anything? Absolutely NOT! Four months later he does hammer presses for 245 for 11 (again) do you think he has given his body any reason to change? Take 2 twins and have one do a max squat for 20 reps and the other twin giant set 4 leg exercises with the same weight. All year long have the first twin blast away until he brings his squat with 20 reps from 185LBS to 400LBS.

Have the second twin giant set four exercises every workout with the same weight he used in his first workout all year long. Believe me he is always going to be sore and he will be shocking the body every time but the sad truth is he will not gain **** after about the third leg workout because the load didn’t change. There is no reason for his legs to grow in size due to the strength demand presented. The first twin who can now squat 400 for 20 is going to have some incredible wheels.

l) I use a certain method in my training because in my opinion it is the utmost method to rapidly gain strength. More on that later. Others might like a different method, that’s up to them, doesn’t matter as long as they are rapidly gaining strength. If you?re gaining appreciable strength on an exercise with a certain method I think the ABSOLUTELY WORSE THING YOU CAN DO is to change up right then. Take that exercise and method to its strength limit and when you get there, then change to a different exercise and get strong as hell on that exercise too.

m) For the next few months take note of the people you see in the gym that never change. They will be the ones using the same weight time after time on exercises whenever they are in the gym. These are the people who use 135, 185, 225 on the bench every time its chest day.

Your best friends in the gym are the 2.5LB plates–your very best buds!!! You put those 2.5LB plates on that bar every time you bench press for 52 weeks and now your bench is 250LBS more at the end of the year! That would equal out to another inch to inch + half thickness on your chest. Can it be done? Probably not at that rate but TRYING TO DO IT will get you a lot bigger than doing what 98% of the people in the gym do. Unless you are gifted genetically to build muscle at a dizzying rate (most people aren’t), the largest people in your gym will also be the ones heaving up the heaviest weights. Do you think they started out that way?

No, they were probably 175 lb guys who bulldozed their way up to that level. A perfect example are male strippers. These guys use a boatload of drugs on par with hardcore competitive bodybuilders. After an initial phase where they grow off of steroids like everyone else–their growth stops (like forever). Why? Because they aren’t eating 500 grams of protein a day and don’t fight and claw their way to 500LB bench presses and 700LB squats and deadlifts.

They stay on the drugs for years and years while stripping but don’t go beyond that 200 to 220LB range. So much for juice being the total equalizer. I don’t know why pseudo experts try to make training such an elite science when in actuality it?s pretty cut and dry. If you keep a training log and note your weights used for the next 5 years and find they are still the same you will pretty much look “still the same” in 5 years. If you double all your poundage’s in the next five years in everything, your going to be one thick person …

If someone ever took a ratio of people who don’t make gains to people who do, it would be pitiful. I would venture to say that 95% of people in gyms across this country aren’t gaining muscle and are wasting their time. The absolutely best advice I could ever give a guy starting out lifting is “go train with an established powerlifter” and learn all the principles he trains with. There would be a lot more happy bodybuilders out there.

So now you guys know I believe in the heaviest training possible (safely)—I think I hammered that home, I needed to do that because so many bodybuilders are lost on how to get from A to Z…it?s all part of my quest to make the biggest heavy slag iron lifting, high protein eating, stretching and recuperating massive bodybuilders I can.-- till next time-DC

[quote]

Sweet read tiger. Thanks for posting

I had the same problem. What worked for me ( i know this wont work for everyone, you have to do what is best for your own body) was switching to dumbells for my flat bench press. i dont even do barbell flat bench press anymore and I am actually growing a better chest than I was before. I also do some light sets of cable crossovers to warm up before that.

[quote]fightingtiger wrote:
Ok. Listen. At 145 lbs, nothing has really “worked for you” yet. You missed the part where I said size isnt necessarily a qualification. EXPERIENCE is. CT is 205 at a low bodyfat and a competitive O-lifter. That means he has experience. A 145 lb teenager that has been lifting for a year does not.

Gaining 25 lbs shouldnt have been that difficult if you were really 120 lbs and malnourished. You just had to start eating. Props for that, a good portion of the new posters here havent figured that one out.

The problem I have with many of your posts is that you give complicated advice to people who do not need it. Suggesting a giant set leg routine to a beginner who wants to add size to his legs is, in reality, most likely going to lead to that beginner either overtraining or getting so tied up in this minor detail or that minor detail that he will confuse himself to all hell and give up.

A better answer to that question would have been “squat and deadlift regularly and consistently add weight to the bar”. Iv got a good article you and anyone else should read if they are interested in gaining mass. PM me if you want it.

This shit is not complicated, you do not have to sweat over doing x many reps x times a week at a x/y/z tempo while the moon is entering the house of aquarius or some shit. You pick something up and you make sure that its heavier than the last time you picked a heavy something up. You eat, you rest, and then you repeat.

The two most important aspects are intensity and progression. Without those two, you can have all of the fancy periodization, programming, and science in the world, and youre still just twittling your thumbs.[/quote]

Hang on a sec…

How in the hell are you going to give advice to anyone when you barley weighs what he weighs?!

And to boot - how are you to tell him what has worked and doesn’t when you have very limited training experience yourself!

…Kids.

I agree with neck presses targeting the pecs quite well - especially the upper pecs.

However, I did find a way to get more pec activation out of the normal bench press: following some advice in one of the articles on the site (don’t remember which), I squeeze my scapula together and make sure to keep this position while benching.

So, I do both. But I’ve dropped incline press in favour of the neck presses.

[quote]wings_931 wrote:
fightingtiger wrote:
Ok. Listen. At 145 lbs, nothing has really “worked for you” yet. You missed the part where I said size isnt necessarily a qualification. EXPERIENCE is. CT is 205 at a low bodyfat and a competitive O-lifter. That means he has experience. A 145 lb teenager that has been lifting for a year does not.

Gaining 25 lbs shouldnt have been that difficult if you were really 120 lbs and malnourished. You just had to start eating. Props for that, a good portion of the new posters here havent figured that one out.

The problem I have with many of your posts is that you give complicated advice to people who do not need it. Suggesting a giant set leg routine to a beginner who wants to add size to his legs is, in reality, most likely going to lead to that beginner either overtraining or getting so tied up in this minor detail or that minor detail that he will confuse himself to all hell and give up.

A better answer to that question would have been “squat and deadlift regularly and consistently add weight to the bar”. Iv got a good article you and anyone else should read if they are interested in gaining mass. PM me if you want it.

This shit is not complicated, you do not have to sweat over doing x many reps x times a week at a x/y/z tempo while the moon is entering the house of aquarius or some shit. You pick something up and you make sure that its heavier than the last time you picked a heavy something up. You eat, you rest, and then you repeat.

The two most important aspects are intensity and progression. Without those two, you can have all of the fancy periodization, programming, and science in the world, and youre still just twittling your thumbs.

Hang on a sec…

How in the hell are you going to give advice to anyone when you barley weighs what he weighs?!

And to boot - how are you to tell him what has worked and doesn’t when you have very limited training experience yourself!

…Kids.
[/quote]

I am hoping that was not directed at me. If it was, go back and do your research again.

[quote]fightingtiger wrote:
wings_931 wrote:
fightingtiger wrote:
Ok. Listen. At 145 lbs, nothing has really “worked for you” yet. You missed the part where I said size isnt necessarily a qualification. EXPERIENCE is. CT is 205 at a low bodyfat and a competitive O-lifter. That means he has experience. A 145 lb teenager that has been lifting for a year does not.

Gaining 25 lbs shouldnt have been that difficult if you were really 120 lbs and malnourished. You just had to start eating. Props for that, a good portion of the new posters here havent figured that one out.

The problem I have with many of your posts is that you give complicated advice to people who do not need it. Suggesting a giant set leg routine to a beginner who wants to add size to his legs is, in reality, most likely going to lead to that beginner either overtraining or getting so tied up in this minor detail or that minor detail that he will confuse himself to all hell and give up.

A better answer to that question would have been “squat and deadlift regularly and consistently add weight to the bar”. Iv got a good article you and anyone else should read if they are interested in gaining mass. PM me if you want it.

This shit is not complicated, you do not have to sweat over doing x many reps x times a week at a x/y/z tempo while the moon is entering the house of aquarius or some shit. You pick something up and you make sure that its heavier than the last time you picked a heavy something up. You eat, you rest, and then you repeat.

The two most important aspects are intensity and progression. Without those two, you can have all of the fancy periodization, programming, and science in the world, and youre still just twittling your thumbs.

Hang on a sec…

How in the hell are you going to give advice to anyone when you barley weighs what he weighs?!

And to boot - how are you to tell him what has worked and doesn’t when you have very limited training experience yourself!

…Kids.

I am hoping that was not directed at me. If it was, go back and do your research again.[/quote]

I hope it’s not me either. It’s a resolved issue after all.

[quote]fightingtiger wrote:

I am hoping that was not directed at me. If it was, go back and do your research again.[/quote]

2 years training? I mean I’ve read your training log and yah you’ve gotten stronger in those years for sure even though you do have some odd pictures in there (cheeseits?) So you have 1 year more training than undead. Doesn’t seem like a lot more experience…

As far as pre-fatigue and what not it does work. I’ve used it plenty and had clients use it all with a lot of great results. And to save you the trouble I’m 185 going back up after cutting down to make weight for a race. I have been as heavy as 210 and I’d say I have had enough weight on me to know what my strong and weak body parts are.

Not that it matters but I havent updated the 2 years thing since I registered here last year. By the way, I only counted my years of serious training, not the time I spent dicking around as a high schooler.

What are you trying to prove by posting your stats “just to save me the trouble”? To me all that you proved is that it took you 7 years to get to about the same point that I have reached in the 2 that I have been taking training seriously.

I never said pre-fatigue didnt work. I just said that BEGINNERS would be better off focusing on the BASICS rather than worrying about giant setted super duper reversed axis pre-fatigue flys.

I included my stats because you seem to go and check them out for everyone that posts on this thread. Like I said I was trying to be helpful. And no, I have gotten well past what you have in my 7 years than you did in your 2. I have gained and lost more weight than most people do in a lifetime because I have to do it cyclically.

I have to bulk up for lacrosse season and cut down to make weight for ltwt rowing, I have learned how to tweak my body exceptionally well in very fast amount of time.

And some beginners may be better off sticking to basics but pre-fatigue isn’t some mystical advanced lifting move. It’s been kicked around for years and any “highschooler dicking around” can try it and possibly benefit. Is it the best way of training? For some maybe, for others probably not. So why discredit a training method that can work, even for those who have trouble growing.

I did some Decline Flyes for a few weeks before when I was trying to add a little lower-outer chest emphasis & my BENCH went up considerable.

I dunno …no rhyme no reason.

merlin

Maybe just due to doing something you haven’t done and giving your body a new angle. I’ve been doing internal/external rotators and that has helped my bench shoot up a bunch. Still lacking on upper pec development but going though a new series of pre-fatigue that started last week.

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
Maybe just due to doing something you haven’t done and giving your body a new angle. I’ve been doing internal/external rotators and that has helped my bench shoot up a bunch. Still lacking on upper pec development but going though a new series of pre-fatigue that started last week.[/quote]

Whats up man took your advice came on board its Muscle_T from the other site well peace out