Supplements for Hormone/Testosterone Balance

[wannabebig250]

[quote]paulieserafini wrote:

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
how much PS are you taking? i do 300mg post workout and 300mg before bed. havent slept this good in 4+ years. ive read a higher blood sugar causes higher cortisol, but working out on low carbs causes high cortisol too. a middle ground like low carb all day and some carbs around the workout would probably be best for optimal cortisol.

meats/nuts/berries breakfast, pro/fat lunch, then like 30-50g oats and a banana pre workout with a protein shake, then meat and rice/potatoes for dinner, and a shake or pro/fat meal before bed would be best in my eyes. insert green veggies where needed (salad, broccoli, spinach, etc).

ive done a shit load of research in the past few days, and apparently high cortisol backs up the body’s ability to excrete estrogens. so that might solve the estrogen problem too. and cortisol kills your testosterone and thyroid.

but on the other side you get guys who have low, low cortisol and it kills their thyroid and energy too lol, so theres a fine balance in between you gotta find with your PS dosage.

and after reading all those articles on pyroluria i decided to find out some symptoms of vitamin b6 deficiency, and weight gain/water retention is the number one side effect. as well as the inability to convert your carbs/protein/fats into usable energy. needless to say i hopped on an advance B complex with 100mg of P5P (vitamin b6 active form = to like 500mg-1000mg b6). b6 also lowers homocysteine levels which cause heart disease. its also dopaminergenic at the HPTA and lowers prolactin, which can raise testosterone. guys use 100-200mg of P5P on tren cycles to combat prolactin.

“actually was going to use it on cycle to keep homocysteine levels down which increases cardiovascular risks, which would be more of a problem on cycle. Also b6 seems to work for prolactin control since prolactin rises when you have a b6 defiecency. Progesterone out of balance can lower vitamin B6 levels even more than estrogen alone. B vitamins help maintain liver health too. The liver needs B vitamins to break down estrogen. If it can’t break down estrogen, the levels of estrogen increase. With B vitamins low, prolactin increases, leading to more breast tenderness. Vitamin B6 and zinc lower prolactin. So supplements with a B vitamin complex will help with the ratios and the sense of balance.”

alright enough babbling about vitamin b6 lol. could be from the b12 and b9 in the b complex too though. havent felt this much energy since i was 12. like im on 400mg of caffeine 24/7![/quote]

hm, i was just going to follow your dosing for a week or two then maybe try lowering it to just 300mg post workout. i just took my first 300mg dose now. I should have done more reading on it but my high cortisol test freaked me out.
im gonna get a b complex without a doubt noah steer reccomended that to me when i told him i was having issues. [/quote]

just make sure you get a good b complex. something like a b complex 100, and take it twice a day. mine is AOR advance b, its got all the active doses of the b vitamins like P5P and methylcobalamin. anything with around 1000mcg of b12 and 200-300mg of b6 or 100mg of P5P is good quality. you could also get a basic b complex with 50mg of each b vitamin and then supplement with additional P5P, which is pretty cheap.

do you have trouble falling asleep? i found PS before bed knocks down the high cortisol.

[paulieserafini]

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:

[quote]paulieserafini wrote:

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
how much PS are you taking? i do 300mg post workout and 300mg before bed. havent slept this good in 4+ years. ive read a higher blood sugar causes higher cortisol, but working out on low carbs causes high cortisol too. a middle ground like low carb all day and some carbs around the workout would probably be best for optimal cortisol.

meats/nuts/berries breakfast, pro/fat lunch, then like 30-50g oats and a banana pre workout with a protein shake, then meat and rice/potatoes for dinner, and a shake or pro/fat meal before bed would be best in my eyes. insert green veggies where needed (salad, broccoli, spinach, etc).

ive done a shit load of research in the past few days, and apparently high cortisol backs up the body’s ability to excrete estrogens. so that might solve the estrogen problem too. and cortisol kills your testosterone and thyroid.

but on the other side you get guys who have low, low cortisol and it kills their thyroid and energy too lol, so theres a fine balance in between you gotta find with your PS dosage.

and after reading all those articles on pyroluria i decided to find out some symptoms of vitamin b6 deficiency, and weight gain/water retention is the number one side effect. as well as the inability to convert your carbs/protein/fats into usable energy. needless to say i hopped on an advance B complex with 100mg of P5P (vitamin b6 active form = to like 500mg-1000mg b6). b6 also lowers homocysteine levels which cause heart disease. its also dopaminergenic at the HPTA and lowers prolactin, which can raise testosterone. guys use 100-200mg of P5P on tren cycles to combat prolactin.

“actually was going to use it on cycle to keep homocysteine levels down which increases cardiovascular risks, which would be more of a problem on cycle. Also b6 seems to work for prolactin control since prolactin rises when you have a b6 defiecency. Progesterone out of balance can lower vitamin B6 levels even more than estrogen alone. B vitamins help maintain liver health too. The liver needs B vitamins to break down estrogen. If it can’t break down estrogen, the levels of estrogen increase. With B vitamins low, prolactin increases, leading to more breast tenderness. Vitamin B6 and zinc lower prolactin. So supplements with a B vitamin complex will help with the ratios and the sense of balance.”

alright enough babbling about vitamin b6 lol. could be from the b12 and b9 in the b complex too though. havent felt this much energy since i was 12. like im on 400mg of caffeine 24/7![/quote]

hm, i was just going to follow your dosing for a week or two then maybe try lowering it to just 300mg post workout. i just took my first 300mg dose now. I should have done more reading on it but my high cortisol test freaked me out.
im gonna get a b complex without a doubt noah steer reccomended that to me when i told him i was having issues. [/quote]

just make sure you get a good b complex. something like a b complex 100, and take it twice a day. mine is AOR advance b, its got all the active doses of the b vitamins like P5P and methylcobalamin. anything with around 1000mcg of b12 and 200-300mg of b6 or 100mg of P5P is good quality. you could also get a basic b complex with 50mg of each b vitamin and then supplement with additional P5P, which is pretty cheap.

do you have trouble falling asleep? i found PS before bed knocks down the high cortisol.[/quote]

not at all man infact after the sun goes down around 7:30 i’m so tired it’s ridiculous at around 10pm i crash out like a baby. but as soon as the sun hits my face im up and ready to rock

[wannabebig250]

[quote]paulieserafini wrote:

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:

[quote]paulieserafini wrote:

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
how much PS are you taking? i do 300mg post workout and 300mg before bed. havent slept this good in 4+ years. ive read a higher blood sugar causes higher cortisol, but working out on low carbs causes high cortisol too. a middle ground like low carb all day and some carbs around the workout would probably be best for optimal cortisol.

meats/nuts/berries breakfast, pro/fat lunch, then like 30-50g oats and a banana pre workout with a protein shake, then meat and rice/potatoes for dinner, and a shake or pro/fat meal before bed would be best in my eyes. insert green veggies where needed (salad, broccoli, spinach, etc).

ive done a shit load of research in the past few days, and apparently high cortisol backs up the body’s ability to excrete estrogens. so that might solve the estrogen problem too. and cortisol kills your testosterone and thyroid.

but on the other side you get guys who have low, low cortisol and it kills their thyroid and energy too lol, so theres a fine balance in between you gotta find with your PS dosage.

and after reading all those articles on pyroluria i decided to find out some symptoms of vitamin b6 deficiency, and weight gain/water retention is the number one side effect. as well as the inability to convert your carbs/protein/fats into usable energy. needless to say i hopped on an advance B complex with 100mg of P5P (vitamin b6 active form = to like 500mg-1000mg b6). b6 also lowers homocysteine levels which cause heart disease. its also dopaminergenic at the HPTA and lowers prolactin, which can raise testosterone. guys use 100-200mg of P5P on tren cycles to combat prolactin.

“actually was going to use it on cycle to keep homocysteine levels down which increases cardiovascular risks, which would be more of a problem on cycle. Also b6 seems to work for prolactin control since prolactin rises when you have a b6 defiecency. Progesterone out of balance can lower vitamin B6 levels even more than estrogen alone. B vitamins help maintain liver health too. The liver needs B vitamins to break down estrogen. If it can’t break down estrogen, the levels of estrogen increase. With B vitamins low, prolactin increases, leading to more breast tenderness. Vitamin B6 and zinc lower prolactin. So supplements with a B vitamin complex will help with the ratios and the sense of balance.”

alright enough babbling about vitamin b6 lol. could be from the b12 and b9 in the b complex too though. havent felt this much energy since i was 12. like im on 400mg of caffeine 24/7![/quote]

hm, i was just going to follow your dosing for a week or two then maybe try lowering it to just 300mg post workout. i just took my first 300mg dose now. I should have done more reading on it but my high cortisol test freaked me out.
im gonna get a b complex without a doubt noah steer reccomended that to me when i told him i was having issues. [/quote]

just make sure you get a good b complex. something like a b complex 100, and take it twice a day. mine is AOR advance b, its got all the active doses of the b vitamins like P5P and methylcobalamin. anything with around 1000mcg of b12 and 200-300mg of b6 or 100mg of P5P is good quality. you could also get a basic b complex with 50mg of each b vitamin and then supplement with additional P5P, which is pretty cheap.

do you have trouble falling asleep? i found PS before bed knocks down the high cortisol.[/quote]

not at all man infact after the sun goes down around 7:30 i’m so tired it’s ridiculous at around 10pm i crash out like a baby. but as soon as the sun hits my face im up and ready to rock
[/quote]

thats actually a really good sign. at least you know you dont have adrenal fatigue where cortisol is high at night and low in the morning. did your cortisol test tell you what times it was highest during the day?

[paulieserafini]

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:

[quote]paulieserafini wrote:

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:

[quote]paulieserafini wrote:

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
how much PS are you taking? i do 300mg post workout and 300mg before bed. havent slept this good in 4+ years. ive read a higher blood sugar causes higher cortisol, but working out on low carbs causes high cortisol too. a middle ground like low carb all day and some carbs around the workout would probably be best for optimal cortisol.

meats/nuts/berries breakfast, pro/fat lunch, then like 30-50g oats and a banana pre workout with a protein shake, then meat and rice/potatoes for dinner, and a shake or pro/fat meal before bed would be best in my eyes. insert green veggies where needed (salad, broccoli, spinach, etc).

ive done a shit load of research in the past few days, and apparently high cortisol backs up the body’s ability to excrete estrogens. so that might solve the estrogen problem too. and cortisol kills your testosterone and thyroid.

but on the other side you get guys who have low, low cortisol and it kills their thyroid and energy too lol, so theres a fine balance in between you gotta find with your PS dosage.

and after reading all those articles on pyroluria i decided to find out some symptoms of vitamin b6 deficiency, and weight gain/water retention is the number one side effect. as well as the inability to convert your carbs/protein/fats into usable energy. needless to say i hopped on an advance B complex with 100mg of P5P (vitamin b6 active form = to like 500mg-1000mg b6). b6 also lowers homocysteine levels which cause heart disease. its also dopaminergenic at the HPTA and lowers prolactin, which can raise testosterone. guys use 100-200mg of P5P on tren cycles to combat prolactin.

“actually was going to use it on cycle to keep homocysteine levels down which increases cardiovascular risks, which would be more of a problem on cycle. Also b6 seems to work for prolactin control since prolactin rises when you have a b6 defiecency. Progesterone out of balance can lower vitamin B6 levels even more than estrogen alone. B vitamins help maintain liver health too. The liver needs B vitamins to break down estrogen. If it can’t break down estrogen, the levels of estrogen increase. With B vitamins low, prolactin increases, leading to more breast tenderness. Vitamin B6 and zinc lower prolactin. So supplements with a B vitamin complex will help with the ratios and the sense of balance.”

alright enough babbling about vitamin b6 lol. could be from the b12 and b9 in the b complex too though. havent felt this much energy since i was 12. like im on 400mg of caffeine 24/7![/quote]

hm, i was just going to follow your dosing for a week or two then maybe try lowering it to just 300mg post workout. i just took my first 300mg dose now. I should have done more reading on it but my high cortisol test freaked me out.
im gonna get a b complex without a doubt noah steer reccomended that to me when i told him i was having issues. [/quote]

just make sure you get a good b complex. something like a b complex 100, and take it twice a day. mine is AOR advance b, its got all the active doses of the b vitamins like P5P and methylcobalamin. anything with around 1000mcg of b12 and 200-300mg of b6 or 100mg of P5P is good quality. you could also get a basic b complex with 50mg of each b vitamin and then supplement with additional P5P, which is pretty cheap.

do you have trouble falling asleep? i found PS before bed knocks down the high cortisol.[/quote]

not at all man infact after the sun goes down around 7:30 i’m so tired it’s ridiculous at around 10pm i crash out like a baby. but as soon as the sun hits my face im up and ready to rock
[/quote]

thats actually a really good sign. at least you know you dont have adrenal fatigue where cortisol is high at night and low in the morning. did your cortisol test tell you what times it was highest during the day?[/quote]

nah. i pee’d in a jug for 24 hours. so it was all mixed up

not to mention this was a really bad day for me. My former best friend, his girlfriend and I shared an apartment and around this day we got on really shitty terms and every time i saw them i wanted to knock their fucking heads together. ha so it probably wasn’t the best time to take a cortisol test.

[paulieserafini]

oh yeah i use to really feel like that. exausted in the morning and energetic at night. if i stay up too late i get a second wind and it becomes kinda hard to fall asleep but as long as i let myself crash before 11 im straight

[wannabebig250]

[quote]paulieserafini wrote:

nah. i pee’d in a jug for 24 hours. so it was all mixed up

not to mention this was a really bad day for me. My former best friend, his girlfriend and I shared an apartment and around this day we got on really shitty terms and every time i saw them i wanted to knock their fucking heads together. ha so it probably wasn’t the best time to take a cortisol test.[/quote]

HA! i can see your cortisol levels going down some now that you got the “stressors” out of your life.

[Gettnitdone]

I’ve recently started supplementing Zinc outside of just multivitamins. Let me confirm, when you guys were talking about mg doses of zinc a couple of pages back, you guys were referring to purely supplemental doses right?

Also would you recommend a 21yo to use Calcium D Glucarate?

[tork94]

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
I’ve recently started supplementing Zinc outside of just multivitamins. Let me confirm, when you guys were talking about mg doses of zinc a couple of pages back, you guys were referring to purely supplemental doses right?

Also would you recommend a 21yo to use Calcium D Glucarate?[/quote]

cal-d is fine for anyone, it basically helps to move toxins out of the cell in to the gut. take lots of fiber as well to help get it completely out of the body. as far as i know, Cal-D has no direct hormonal effect.

[paulieserafini]

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
I’ve recently started supplementing Zinc outside of just multivitamins. Let me confirm, when you guys were talking about mg doses of zinc a couple of pages back, you guys were referring to purely supplemental doses right?

Also would you recommend a 21yo to use Calcium D Glucarate?[/quote]

I was only talking about supplemental doses but that’s only because i know i get like 15mg from my diet.

[jonmb11]

For all you Zinc fiends -

Just to let you guys know, I was taking about 100mg of zinc for at least two weeks to try to get my zinc levels up. Got some liquid zinc in the mail yesterday to test my zinc levels. I fell under the very low zinc levels category. I dont know if it was because the zinc I was taking had a small amount of copper in it. But for all you guys who are experimenting with taking in large amount of zinc, or anyone wondering how their zinc levels are, I would highly recommend getting some liquid zinc as well to actually see where your at. You might be surprised. I know I was.

Oh, and I have been taking ZMA or ELITEPRO Mineral Support for years before this and eat a pretty large amount of meat so I’ve always had zinc in my diet.

Edit: Now that I think about it, I was taking it on an empty stomach first thing in the morning and I don’t think my body absorbed most of it without food. From now on I’m going to be taking zinc with the beef I eat since beef already has zinc in it.

[MAF14]

@ WBB

The more I’m reading the more I think your E2 problem is (could be) cortisol related. Taking HC has shown to work against aromatization. They even talk about it over at Crislers.

[MAF14]

[quote]MAF14 wrote:
@ WBB

The more I’m reading the more I think your E2 problem is (could be) cortisol related. Taking HC has shown to work against aromatization. They even talk about it over at Crislers.[/quote]

Also, here is a quote from chilln:

"Your pregnenolone is keeping your pregnenolone and neurotransmitters and cortisol levels all in the higher ranges, which means your thyroid hormone T4 will convert into more T3 than reverse T3.

The increased levels of neurotranmsitters are required by the brain to process the increased information coming from peripheral tissues when metabolism is boosted.

Ie: too low neurotransmitters causes T4 to convert more into reverse T3 than T3, because then there’s less infornation for the brain to process.

The increased cortisol is required to work synergistically with the thyroid hormone T3 (after conversion from T4) in order to create the metabolism increase. The cortisol is mandatory, not optional. When cortisol is too low, then T4 will convert more into reverse T3 than T3."

I can imagine the same could work for test/E2. Not enough neurotransmitters causing more test to aromatize… I am purely guessing and have no scientific background info (lol). Just makes sense.

[paulieserafini]

[quote]MAF14 wrote:
@ WBB

The more I’m reading the more I think your E2 problem is (could be) cortisol related. Taking HC has shown to work against aromatization. They even talk about it over at Crislers.[/quote]

what is hc?

[Karado]

Funny, not a word on other natural Test Boosting Foods/Habits that increase Testosterone/Sexual
Desire.
Here’s a laughable way…LAUGH OFTEN, yes laughing is a proven Test Booster, BUT “Society” doesn’t
“allow” you to laugh in public lest anyone think you’re not “normal” that a Man should NOT laugh
in public, OK then, do it in Private…Have “Anchorman”, “The 40 Year old Virgin”, and “Knocked Up”
on a loop on your TV and you’re good to go.

“Secretagouges”, (I think I spelled that right lol) in Goji Berries, etc. have been found to help
in the Test/Sexual desire areas.
MODERATE Cannabis use increases ‘Test’ (POTHEADSEZWHAT?)…I’ll say no more other than…research that one.
Last but not least (so far), this new TRENDY thingy Fenugreek, which is the new TRENDY
thingy almost every new Test Booster supplement Co. MUST have…BUT studies are about as
conclusive as the Tribulus Thingy…promising but sketchy at BEST.

I HATE when a “New” Natural Thingy gets hyped (Pomegranate, Hoodia, the NEW Raspberry weight loss craze,
etc. based on mostly promising but INCONCLUSIVE studies come out only to dissapoint later, YET,
YET, (did I say “YET”), most (not all), Supplement Companies will JUMP in on these TRENDY ingredient
thingys, and throw them in the mix of supplements whether it’s weight loss, Test Boosting, what have ya.
Now, go watch ANIMAL HOUSE and send your Testosterone through the roof!

[MAF14]

Ummm what?

[MAF14]

[quote]paulieserafini wrote:

[quote]MAF14 wrote:
@ WBB

The more I’m reading the more I think your E2 problem is (could be) cortisol related. Taking HC has shown to work against aromatization. They even talk about it over at Crislers.[/quote]

what is hc?[/quote]

Hydrocortisone aka synthetic cortisol.

[wannabebig250]

[quote]MAF14 wrote:

[quote]MAF14 wrote:
@ WBB

The more I’m reading the more I think your E2 problem is (could be) cortisol related. Taking HC has shown to work against aromatization. They even talk about it over at Crislers.[/quote]

Also, here is a quote from chilln:

"Your pregnenolone is keeping your pregnenolone and neurotransmitters and cortisol levels all in the higher ranges, which means your thyroid hormone T4 will convert into more T3 than reverse T3.

The increased levels of neurotranmsitters are required by the brain to process the increased information coming from peripheral tissues when metabolism is boosted.

Ie: too low neurotransmitters causes T4 to convert more into reverse T3 than T3, because then there’s less infornation for the brain to process.

The increased cortisol is required to work synergistically with the thyroid hormone T3 (after conversion from T4) in order to create the metabolism increase. The cortisol is mandatory, not optional. When cortisol is too low, then T4 will convert more into reverse T3 than T3."

I can imagine the same could work for test/E2. Not enough neurotransmitters causing more test to aromatize… I am purely guessing and have no scientific background info (lol). Just makes sense.[/quote]

it makes sense. ever since i started taking phoshphatidylserine to lower cortisol ive noticed a huge improvement in energy, mood, and water retention (estrogen side effects). as well as carbohydrate tolerance. i just got back from an all inclusive trip to the carribean eating tons, and tons, and tons of carbs and i actually lost a couple lbs. taking 400mg of PS 2x a day for 2 weeks now.

falling asleep at night is no challenge now and waking up in the morning and getting going is almost instantaneous. makes me think im starting to get my cortisol in the morning up and at night low.

i could also imagine high/low cortisol causing a downgrade in dopamine and serotonin, and with low dopamine, prolactin can increase and cause shitty low testosterone side effects.

[MAF14]

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:

[quote]MAF14 wrote:

[quote]MAF14 wrote:
@ WBB

The more I’m reading the more I think your E2 problem is (could be) cortisol related. Taking HC has shown to work against aromatization. They even talk about it over at Crislers.[/quote]

Also, here is a quote from chilln:

"Your pregnenolone is keeping your pregnenolone and neurotransmitters and cortisol levels all in the higher ranges, which means your thyroid hormone T4 will convert into more T3 than reverse T3.

The increased levels of neurotranmsitters are required by the brain to process the increased information coming from peripheral tissues when metabolism is boosted.

Ie: too low neurotransmitters causes T4 to convert more into reverse T3 than T3, because then there’s less infornation for the brain to process.

The increased cortisol is required to work synergistically with the thyroid hormone T3 (after conversion from T4) in order to create the metabolism increase. The cortisol is mandatory, not optional. When cortisol is too low, then T4 will convert more into reverse T3 than T3."

I can imagine the same could work for test/E2. Not enough neurotransmitters causing more test to aromatize… I am purely guessing and have no scientific background info (lol). Just makes sense.[/quote]

it makes sense. ever since i started taking phoshphatidylserine to lower cortisol ive noticed a huge improvement in energy, mood, and water retention (estrogen side effects). as well as carbohydrate tolerance. i just got back from an all inclusive trip to the carribean eating tons, and tons, and tons of carbs and i actually lost a couple lbs. taking 400mg of PS 2x a day for 2 weeks now.

falling asleep at night is no challenge now and waking up in the morning and getting going is almost instantaneous. makes me think im starting to get my cortisol in the morning up and at night low.

i could also imagine high/low cortisol causing a downgrade in dopamine and serotonin, and with low dopamine, prolactin can increase and cause shitty low testosterone side effects.[/quote]

And another quote from chilln actually about E2:

• The most common reason why either E2 is high, or SHBG is high, or both E2 and SHBG are both too high, before commencing any hormone modulation therapy, is because there isn’t enough cortisol floating around to downregulate T metabolism adequately (usually because of age-related-hormonal-decline of our cortisol production line), so the body has to take evasive action to reduce T metabolism. It does this either by:
  a) converting some of the available T into E2, because E2 downregulates T metabolism very strongly
  or:
  b) upregulating SHBG, because SHBG binds to T and effectively takes it out-of-service.

• When our body cranks E2 to downregulate T metabolism, the high E2 wreaks havoc with our neurotransmitter balance, in ways which ruin our erection performance. Our body produces optimum neurotransmitter balance when it synthesizes optimum amounts of cortisol via pregnenolone. HC supplementation does not restore our neurotransmitters.

• Increasing cortisol downregulates our T metabolism, which reverses any previous E2 and / or SHBG excesses which our body implemented due to too low cortisol.

*** While you probably think that you don’t want your testosterone metabolism downregulated at all, if you don’t use cortisol to do it, then your body will either:
a) synthesize E2 out of your T and then your body will use the E2 to downregulate your testosterone metabolism.
or:
b) crank your SHBG to downregulate your testosterone metabolism.

*** You cannot run away from downregulating your T. It must be done. And you must use cortisol to do it not E2 and not SHBG. Hence you may need your cortisol boosted to achieve this.

*** Males who think that they can “beat the system” by operating at low cortisol and taking arimidex to suppress E2, or taking nettle root extract to suppress SHBG, are doing this based on insufficient knowledge of hormones, because too low cortisol means too low pregnenolone, which means too low neurotransmitters. Having too low neurotransmitters means the brain cannot coordinate the larger volume of messages resulting from increased overall metabolism, which includes the increased volume of repair messages triggered by higher T metabolism."

[wannabebig250]

[quote]MAF14 wrote:

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:

[quote]MAF14 wrote:

[quote]MAF14 wrote:
@ WBB

The more I’m reading the more I think your E2 problem is (could be) cortisol related. Taking HC has shown to work against aromatization. They even talk about it over at Crislers.[/quote]

Also, here is a quote from chilln:

"Your pregnenolone is keeping your pregnenolone and neurotransmitters and cortisol levels all in the higher ranges, which means your thyroid hormone T4 will convert into more T3 than reverse T3.

The increased levels of neurotranmsitters are required by the brain to process the increased information coming from peripheral tissues when metabolism is boosted.

Ie: too low neurotransmitters causes T4 to convert more into reverse T3 than T3, because then there’s less infornation for the brain to process.

The increased cortisol is required to work synergistically with the thyroid hormone T3 (after conversion from T4) in order to create the metabolism increase. The cortisol is mandatory, not optional. When cortisol is too low, then T4 will convert more into reverse T3 than T3."

I can imagine the same could work for test/E2. Not enough neurotransmitters causing more test to aromatize… I am purely guessing and have no scientific background info (lol). Just makes sense.[/quote]

it makes sense. ever since i started taking phoshphatidylserine to lower cortisol ive noticed a huge improvement in energy, mood, and water retention (estrogen side effects). as well as carbohydrate tolerance. i just got back from an all inclusive trip to the carribean eating tons, and tons, and tons of carbs and i actually lost a couple lbs. taking 400mg of PS 2x a day for 2 weeks now.

falling asleep at night is no challenge now and waking up in the morning and getting going is almost instantaneous. makes me think im starting to get my cortisol in the morning up and at night low.

i could also imagine high/low cortisol causing a downgrade in dopamine and serotonin, and with low dopamine, prolactin can increase and cause shitty low testosterone side effects.[/quote]

And another quote from chilln actually about E2:

• The most common reason why either E2 is high, or SHBG is high, or both E2 and SHBG are both too high, before commencing any hormone modulation therapy, is because there isn’t enough cortisol floating around to downregulate T metabolism adequately (usually because of age-related-hormonal-decline of our cortisol production line), so the body has to take evasive action to reduce T metabolism. It does this either by:
  a) converting some of the available T into E2, because E2 downregulates T metabolism very strongly
  or:
  b) upregulating SHBG, because SHBG binds to T and effectively takes it out-of-service.

• When our body cranks E2 to downregulate T metabolism, the high E2 wreaks havoc with our neurotransmitter balance, in ways which ruin our erection performance. Our body produces optimum neurotransmitter balance when it synthesizes optimum amounts of cortisol via pregnenolone. HC supplementation does not restore our neurotransmitters.

• Increasing cortisol downregulates our T metabolism, which reverses any previous E2 and / or SHBG excesses which our body implemented due to too low cortisol.

*** While you probably think that you don’t want your testosterone metabolism downregulated at all, if you don’t use cortisol to do it, then your body will either:
a) synthesize E2 out of your T and then your body will use the E2 to downregulate your testosterone metabolism.
or:
b) crank your SHBG to downregulate your testosterone metabolism.

*** You cannot run away from downregulating your T. It must be done. And you must use cortisol to do it not E2 and not SHBG. Hence you may need your cortisol boosted to achieve this.

*** Males who think that they can “beat the system” by operating at low cortisol and taking arimidex to suppress E2, or taking nettle root extract to suppress SHBG, are doing this based on insufficient knowledge of hormones, because too low cortisol means too low pregnenolone, which means too low neurotransmitters. Having too low neurotransmitters means the brain cannot coordinate the larger volume of messages resulting from increased overall metabolism, which includes the increased volume of repair messages triggered by higher T metabolism."[/quote]

are you on hydrocortisone yet?

i dunno sometimes when i read some of the stuff from these anti-aging hormone replacement “gurus” it makes me cringe. most of them are just regular guys on forums who THINK they know what they are talking about. i.e. the forum where you got all this info from M.C.

through trial and error ive determined that all maladies in the body are caused by over-exercising and under eating, and that using supplements and meds is just a band-aid. think about it… does that body WANT to have low testosterone? no. does it WANT to have the estrogen of a woman? hell no. does it WANT to stop producing cortisol? no. does it WANT to lay in bed all day or exercise for 3 hours? no. for every hour you exercise you should be eating to compensate for it, and i feel that low carb doesnt allow that.

100% any and all of my problems were caused by low carbs. im on week THREE of eating upwards of 300-500g of carbs a day, with a relative drop in dietary fat and protein, and i dont even feel like i ever had low T, high E2, or messed up cortisol. and im losing fat and re-gaining muscle, strength is going through the roof.

i feel like im on some DAA, tongkat, tribulus, the whole nine yards and i take ZERO supplements now besides maybe a scoop of whey post workout and sometimes some zinc/mag before bed, and if i remember vitamin E&C post workout. if you eat a balanced diet and check your micronutrients in fitday, i see no reason to use a multivitamin either when youre getting 200-300% the RDA from food.

[MAF14]

I get what you’re saying about the guru type guys but when most doctors are so unreliable that’s all we’re left with… I do agree over exercising and under eating does cause a lot of issues but once they’re there it almost always take more than just eating more and working out less to get back to where you were.

I am on HC… not really something I’m feeling yet though.