[quote]toocul4u wrote:
Ken Rose wrote:
Maybe you should google him before you say something that dumb.
The Mighty Stu wrote:
I don’t typically put much faith in anyone who’s billed as a ‘famous fitness guru’. I prefer to read studies and try things for myself. On occassion I’ll take suggestions from folks who actually walk the walk like Thibs.
S
not sure that was dumb at all[/quote]
Actually it was. Mackie Shilstone makes Thibs look like a nothing.
After googling Mackie Shilstone, i was directed to his website. I read his “about me” section, and the only worthwhile degree he mentions is his master of arts in business. not to knock the guy, but his credentials do not warrant your worshipping. he’s a guy with a good mind who sold a product, he is no god but sadly yes, just another guru.
I don’t know about “a nothing”, that might be a bit harsh. But I can’t stand it when people just follow one source and cannot view things with an open mind. Too many people here think T-Nation contributors walk on water. Nothing against Thibaudeau (and I refuse to call him “Thibs” so that I can pretend that were buddies) but Charlie Francas use to contribute to T-Nation and he’s a friggin idiot! Anyways, thanks for seeing my point about Shilstone.
[quote]fightnews10 wrote:
toocul4u wrote:
Ken Rose wrote:
Maybe you should google him before you say something that dumb.
The Mighty Stu wrote:
I don’t typically put much faith in anyone who’s billed as a ‘famous fitness guru’. I prefer to read studies and try things for myself. On occassion I’ll take suggestions from folks who actually walk the walk like Thibs.
S
not sure that was dumb at all
Actually it was. Mackie Shilstone makes thibs look like a nothing. [/quote]
[quote]Ken Rose wrote:
I don’t know about “a nothing”, that might be a bit harsh. But I can’t stand it when people just follow one source and cannot view things with an open mind. Too many people here think T-Nation contributors walk on water. Nothing against Thibaudeau (and I refuse to call him “Thibs” so that I can pretend that were buddies) but Charlie Francas use to contribute to T-Nation and he’s a friggin idiot! Anyways, thanks for seeing my point about Shilstone.
fightnews10 wrote:
toocul4u wrote:
Ken Rose wrote:
Maybe you should google him before you say something that dumb.
The Mighty Stu wrote:
I don’t typically put much faith in anyone who’s billed as a ‘famous fitness guru’. I prefer to read studies and try things for myself. On occassion I’ll take suggestions from folks who actually walk the walk like Thibs.
S
not sure that was dumb at all
Actually it was. Mackie Shilstone makes thibs look like a nothing.
[/quote]
What makes Charlie Francis an idiot? The fact that he’s coached numerous Olympic gold medalists? Or is this alluding to some connection with PEDs?
Charlie is an idiot because he “claims” that everyone is on junk and that you must use to be successful in sprints. It is a loser mentality; he’s justifying cheating as something as necessary. He’s also full of shit. I watched him claim that he “knew” what Donovan Bailey was taking in 1996 to win the 100m in Atlanta. I called Donovan and let him know what Charlie was saying and was standing there 10 min later when Donovan confronted him and Charlie denied saying it. Of course, Charlie doesn’t know me and didn’t know that Donovan (who was completely clean by the way) is one of my best friends.
Regarding his training “expertise”, most people don’t even know that Ben was doing his own workouts and getting fast as a result of an tendon injury, which was inflamed by Charlie’s longer workouts. He couldn’t do Charlie’s workouts so was limited to doing accelerations and starts and high intensity workouts of his own. Pretty soon all of the Optimist sprinters were following suit. Charlie did take the credit for inventing these workouts, but it was Ben who invented them.
And lastly… “numerous olympic gold medalists???” Numerous??? Try one, for 5 days. Who was never below 10.10 without rocket fuel.
[quote]martyh wrote:
Ken Rose wrote:
I don’t know about “a nothing”, that might be a bit harsh. But I can’t stand it when people just follow one source and cannot view things with an open mind. Too many people here think T-Nation contributors walk on water. Nothing against Thibaudeau (and I refuse to call him “Thibs” so that I can pretend that were buddies) but Charlie Francas use to contribute to T-Nation and he’s a friggin idiot! Anyways, thanks for seeing my point about Shilstone.
fightnews10 wrote:
toocul4u wrote:
Ken Rose wrote:
Maybe you should google him before you say something that dumb.
The Mighty Stu wrote:
I don’t typically put much faith in anyone who’s billed as a ‘famous fitness guru’. I prefer to read studies and try things for myself. On occassion I’ll take suggestions from folks who actually walk the walk like Thibs.
S
not sure that was dumb at all
Actually it was. Mackie Shilstone makes thibs look like a nothing.
What makes Charlie Francis an idiot? The fact that he’s coached numerous Olympic gold medalists? Or is this alluding to some connection with PEDs?
[/quote]
Not sure if you’re talking to me Kanada. I’m not “worshipping” the guy. But while he has sold out to a degree he has been on the forefront of athletic training for many years. And he has successfully trained many top athletes. Seriously, look past his website for some of his credentials, but like I said, I do think he’s a bit overrated. I just found it funny that a guy would rather follow “Thibs” and blindly dismiss a guy he has never heard of.
[quote]Kanada wrote:
After googling Mackie Shilstone, i was directed to his website. I read his “about me” section, and the only worthwhile degree he mentions is his master of arts in business. not to knock the guy, but his credentials do not warrant your worshipping. he’s a guy with a good mind who sold a product, he is no god but sadly yes, just another guru. [/quote]
[quote]Ken Rose wrote:
Maybe you should google him before you say something that dumb.
The Mighty Stu wrote:
I don’t typically put much faith in anyone who’s billed as a ‘famous fitness guru’. I prefer to read studies and try things for myself. On occassion I’ll take suggestions from folks who actually walk the walk like Thibs.
S
[/quote]
I did, and for my money, guys who write “feeling good about fitness”, and is billed as a fitness “manager”, not even a strength and conditioning coach (he does have a masters degree in business administration), don’t really have much to offer for my own particular goals, or experience levels.
Sure, his other books that are geared towards “losing your love handles” may be damn hard core for some of you, but I like to think I’ve moved beyond that by now. Besides, you don’t hear guys like Thibs or Poliquin spoken of as ‘gurus’, they are competent, and established coaches. The term ‘guru’ seems to be applied to a lot of folks with questionable backgrounds but novel concepts these days.
Personally, I tend to be wary of anyone who is billed as such. Call me silly, call me old fashioned, but I’m okay with that.
S
Are you kidding??? you haven’t heard of Poliquin spoken of as a “guru”? Please. And I say again, yes clearly MS has “sold out” and gone mainstream, but from 95 to 04 he’s coached the same number of olympic and professional athletes as Poliquin. Seriously buddy, you gotta look past his website. In Track, boxing and NFL circles, the guy has his following the same way Poliquin does with his NHL guys.
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Besides, you don’t hear guys like Thibs or Poliquin spoken of as ‘gurus’, they are competent, and established coaches.
[/quote]
lol
[quote]you don’t hear guys like Thibs or Poliquin spoken of as ‘gurus’,
Personally, I tend to be wary of anyone who is billed as such.
[/quote]
[quote]Ken Rose wrote:
Charlie is an idiot because he “claims” that everyone is on junk and that you must use to be successful in sprints. It is a loser mentality; he’s justifying cheating as something as necessary. He’s also full of shit. I watched him claim that he “knew” what Donovan Bailey was taking in 1996 to win the 100m in Atlanta. I called Donovan and let him know what Charlie was saying and was standing there 10 min later when Donovan confronted him and Charlie denied saying it. Of course, Charlie doesn’t know me and didn’t know that Donovan (who was completely clean by the way) is one of my best friends.
Regarding his training “expertise”, most people don’t even know that Ben was doing his own workouts and getting fast as a result of an tendon injury, which was inflamed by Charlie’s longer workouts. He couldn’t do Charlie’s workouts so was limited to doing accelerations and starts and high intensity workouts of his own. Pretty soon all of the Optimist sprinters were following suit. Charlie did take the credit for inventing these workouts, but it was Ben who invented them.
And lastly… “numerous olympic gold medalists???” Numerous??? Try one, for 5 days. Who was never below 10.10 without rocket fuel.
martyh wrote:
Ken Rose wrote:
I don’t know about “a nothing”, that might be a bit harsh. But I can’t stand it when people just follow one source and cannot view things with an open mind. Too many people here think T-Nation contributors walk on water. Nothing against Thibaudeau (and I refuse to call him “Thibs” so that I can pretend that were buddies) but Charlie Francas use to contribute to T-Nation and he’s a friggin idiot! Anyways, thanks for seeing my point about Shilstone.
fightnews10 wrote:
toocul4u wrote:
Ken Rose wrote:
Maybe you should google him before you say something that dumb.
The Mighty Stu wrote:
I don’t typically put much faith in anyone who’s billed as a ‘famous fitness guru’. I prefer to read studies and try things for myself. On occassion I’ll take suggestions from folks who actually walk the walk like Thibs.
S
not sure that was dumb at all
Actually it was. Mackie Shilstone makes thibs look like a nothing.
What makes Charlie Francis an idiot? The fact that he’s coached numerous Olympic gold medalists? Or is this alluding to some connection with PEDs?
[/quote]
He also coached Tim Montgomery, and I believe, although I could be wrong, did some work with Marion Jones as well. He’s a well established coach with good info, and just like any other strength coach not everyone agrees with his principles. And I respect the results Mackey Shilstone produces, but I haven’t heard of him working with high level athletes outside of boxers, though I’m sure there’s others. That being said, I don’t know that he’s highly regarded for bodybuilding purposes.
He coached Tim Mongomery and Marion Jones for 4 months behind the scenes after 2002. Well after their height in the sport. Actually, I’m very familiar with the Marion Jones situation, she was looking for someone with drug knowledge to help her because she wasn’t getting any gains with Dan Pfaft, who coached Donovan and was coaching her clean.
Both left Charlie when it was clear that he couldn’t help him.
Again, I’m not a fan of MS but he trained many American sprinters in the 90’s, the most notable being a world record 400m run by Butch Reynolds in 1996.
[quote]martyh wrote:
Ken Rose wrote:
Charlie is an idiot because he “claims” that everyone is on junk and that you must use to be successful in sprints. It is a loser mentality; he’s justifying cheating as something as necessary. He’s also full of shit. I watched him claim that he “knew” what Donovan Bailey was taking in 1996 to win the 100m in Atlanta. I called Donovan and let him know what Charlie was saying and was standing there 10 min later when Donovan confronted him and Charlie denied saying it. Of course, Charlie doesn’t know me and didn’t know that Donovan (who was completely clean by the way) is one of my best friends.
Regarding his training “expertise”, most people don’t even know that Ben was doing his own workouts and getting fast as a result of an tendon injury, which was inflamed by Charlie’s longer workouts. He couldn’t do Charlie’s workouts so was limited to doing accelerations and starts and high intensity workouts of his own. Pretty soon all of the Optimist sprinters were following suit. Charlie did take the credit for inventing these workouts, but it was Ben who invented them.
And lastly… “numerous olympic gold medalists???” Numerous??? Try one, for 5 days. Who was never below 10.10 without rocket fuel.
martyh wrote:
Ken Rose wrote:
I don’t know about “a nothing”, that might be a bit harsh. But I can’t stand it when people just follow one source and cannot view things with an open mind. Too many people here think T-Nation contributors walk on water. Nothing against Thibaudeau (and I refuse to call him “Thibs” so that I can pretend that were buddies) but Charlie Francas use to contribute to T-Nation and he’s a friggin idiot! Anyways, thanks for seeing my point about Shilstone.
fightnews10 wrote:
toocul4u wrote:
Ken Rose wrote:
Maybe you should google him before you say something that dumb.
The Mighty Stu wrote:
I don’t typically put much faith in anyone who’s billed as a ‘famous fitness guru’. I prefer to read studies and try things for myself. On occassion I’ll take suggestions from folks who actually walk the walk like Thibs.
S
not sure that was dumb at all
Actually it was. Mackie Shilstone makes thibs look like a nothing.
What makes Charlie Francis an idiot? The fact that he’s coached numerous Olympic gold medalists? Or is this alluding to some connection with PEDs?
He also coached Tim Montgomery, and I believe, although I could be wrong, did some work with Marion Jones as well. He’s a well established coach with good info, and just like any other strength coach not everyone agrees with his principles. And I respect the results Mackey Shilstone produces, but I haven’t heard of him working with high level athletes outside of boxers, though I’m sure there’s others. That being said, I don’t know that he’s highly regarded for bodybuilding purposes.[/quote]
[quote]Kanada wrote:
After googling Mackie Shilstone, i was directed to his website. I read his “about me” section, and the only worthwhile degree he mentions is his master of arts in business. not to knock the guy, but his credentials do not warrant your worshipping. he’s a guy with a good mind who sold a product, he is no god but sadly yes, just another guru. [/quote]
Sorry but you are 100% wrong and didn’t read enough. This guy trained Micheal spinks to beat Larry Holmes, Roy Jones to beat John Ruiz, Riddick Bowe, He trained Bernard Hopkins to beat Tarver. You understand who those names are? Do you realize the caliber of athlete were talking about? None of these chumps your talking about can even come close to those kind of athletes, He trains Serena Williams for Christ sake.
lol; I knew you were a boxing fan with your username. As we’re pretty off topic already (and my pm isn’t working for some reason), were you surprised by Sat night? I sure was. I did not expect Pacquiao to be as fast as he was. I thought he’d win, but not with a round two knockout!
I know Lennox casually by the way, I met him through Donovan as they are friends from way back and are neighbors now in Jamaica.
Ken
[quote]fightnews10 wrote:
Kanada wrote:
After googling Mackie Shilstone, i was directed to his website. I read his “about me” section, and the only worthwhile degree he mentions is his master of arts in business. not to knock the guy, but his credentials do not warrant your worshipping. he’s a guy with a good mind who sold a product, he is no god but sadly yes, just another guru.
Sorry but you are 100% wrong and didn’t read enough. This guy trained Micheal spinks to beat Larry Holmes, Roy Jones to beat John Ruiz, Riddick Bowe, He trained Bernard Hopkins to beat Tarver. You understand who those names are? Do you realize the caliber of athlete were talking about? None of these chumps your talking about can even come close to those kind of athletes, He trains Serena Williams for Christ sake.[/quote]
[quote]Ken Rose wrote:
lol; I knew you were a boxing fan with your username. As we’re pretty off topic already (and my pm isn’t working for some reason), were you surprised by Sat night? I sure was. I did not expect Pacquiao to be as fast as he was. I thought he’d win, but not with a round two knockout!
I know Lennox casually by the way, I met him through Donovan as they are friends from way back and are neighbors now in Jamaica.
Ken
fightnews10 wrote:
Kanada wrote:
After googling Mackie Shilstone, i was directed to his website. I read his “about me” section, and the only worthwhile degree he mentions is his master of arts in business. not to knock the guy, but his credentials do not warrant your worshipping. he’s a guy with a good mind who sold a product, he is no god but sadly yes, just another guru.
Sorry but you are 100% wrong and didn’t read enough. This guy trained Micheal spinks to beat Larry Holmes, Roy Jones to beat John Ruiz, Riddick Bowe, He trained Bernard Hopkins to beat Tarver. You understand who those names are? Do you realize the caliber of athlete were talking about? None of these chumps your talking about can even come close to those kind of athletes, He trains Serena Williams for Christ sake.
[/quote]
Hell ya I was surprised. I thought Hatton had a chance. Paquio is the new Tyson I guess. The guys accuracy is unbelievable. He hits you on the chin every time. Mayweather might have some big problems in that fight? Lenox was the man. Who’s donovan?
Sorry bud; Donovan is Donovan Bailey, a Canadian sprinter who won gold and set the world record in Atlanta in 96 in the 100m. I like Mayweather but he seriously needs to be worried about the Pac Man. He won’t though.
[quote]fightnews10 wrote:
Ken Rose wrote:
lol; I knew you were a boxing fan with your username. As we’re pretty off topic already (and my pm isn’t working for some reason), were you surprised by Sat night? I sure was. I did not expect Pacquiao to be as fast as he was. I thought he’d win, but not with a round two knockout!
I know Lennox casually by the way, I met him through Donovan as they are friends from way back and are neighbors now in Jamaica.
Ken
fightnews10 wrote:
Kanada wrote:
After googling Mackie Shilstone, i was directed to his website. I read his “about me” section, and the only worthwhile degree he mentions is his master of arts in business. not to knock the guy, but his credentials do not warrant your worshipping. he’s a guy with a good mind who sold a product, he is no god but sadly yes, just another guru.
Sorry but you are 100% wrong and didn’t read enough. This guy trained Micheal spinks to beat Larry Holmes, Roy Jones to beat John Ruiz, Riddick Bowe, He trained Bernard Hopkins to beat Tarver. You understand who those names are? Do you realize the caliber of athlete were talking about? None of these chumps your talking about can even come close to those kind of athletes, He trains Serena Williams for Christ sake.
Hell ya I was surprised. I thought Hatton had a chance. Paquio is the new Tyson I guess. The guys accuracy is unbelievable. He hits you on the chin every time. Mayweather might have some big problems in that fight? Lenox was the man. Who’s donovan? [/quote]
The newspapers here in the UK today are filled with pix of Hatton lying around the pool drinking pints of Guiness following his defeat.
Hatton trains like a demon but outside his prep time he is well-known for piling on weight by the alcohol he downs and pies he eats. The drastic weight reduction was bound to catch up with him at some time. I’m convinced he will be end up around 15st wthin a few years of retiring.
I’m sure the Pacman, as well as Mayweather Jnr, have off-season weights no more than 5-6lbs from their fighting weight limits.
[quote]Ken Rose wrote:
Sorry bud; Donovan is Donovan Bailey, a Canadian sprinter who won gold and set the world record in Atlanta in 96 in the 100m. I like Mayweather but he seriously needs to be worried about the Pac Man. He won’t though.
fightnews10 wrote:
Ken Rose wrote:
lol; I knew you were a boxing fan with your username. As we’re pretty off topic already (and my pm isn’t working for some reason), were you surprised by Sat night? I sure was. I did not expect Pacquiao to be as fast as he was. I thought he’d win, but not with a round two knockout!
I know Lennox casually by the way, I met him through Donovan as they are friends from way back and are neighbors now in Jamaica.
Ken
fightnews10 wrote:
Kanada wrote:
After googling Mackie Shilstone, i was directed to his website. I read his “about me” section, and the only worthwhile degree he mentions is his master of arts in business. not to knock the guy, but his credentials do not warrant your worshipping. he’s a guy with a good mind who sold a product, he is no god but sadly yes, just another guru.
Sorry but you are 100% wrong and didn’t read enough. This guy trained Micheal spinks to beat Larry Holmes, Roy Jones to beat John Ruiz, Riddick Bowe, He trained Bernard Hopkins to beat Tarver. You understand who those names are? Do you realize the caliber of athlete were talking about? None of these chumps your talking about can even come close to those kind of athletes, He trains Serena Williams for Christ sake.
Hell ya I was surprised. I thought Hatton had a chance. Paquio is the new Tyson I guess. The guys accuracy is unbelievable. He hits you on the chin every time. Mayweather might have some big problems in that fight? Lenox was the man. Who’s donovan?
[/quote]
Marquez and Pac back to back is going to be tough. I feel bad that Mosley is going to get fucked out of his opportunity and he’s old now. That would have been the fight but Mayweather retired like a coward and a spoiled baby in my eyes. Caulk it up to another great fight that won’t happen unless Mayweather waits until Mosley is way past his prime.
I don’t feel bad for Mosley though. I agree, he’s fighting well, but he really turned me off with that THG thing. Plus, he’s made a few poor business decisions in who he wanted to fight for how much money; more precisely, his wife made the bad decisions, and now he’s having to deal with them.
To me, he’s kinda like B-Hop with his decisions. I saw Taylor vs Pavlic live in Las Vegas, watched Hop vs Calzaghe on tv, and I was STUNNED when Hop took apart Pavlic! Now, no one wants to fight him. But I blame him for that, because of those earlier decisions in fights.
Do you follow UFC as well? I do, and I enjoy it, but boxing is a passion to me.
[quote]fightnews10 wrote:
Ken Rose wrote:
Sorry bud; Donovan is Donovan Bailey, a Canadian sprinter who won gold and set the world record in Atlanta in 96 in the 100m. I like Mayweather but he seriously needs to be worried about the Pac Man. He won’t though.
fightnews10 wrote:
Ken Rose wrote:
lol; I knew you were a boxing fan with your username. As we’re pretty off topic already (and my pm isn’t working for some reason), were you surprised by Sat night? I sure was. I did not expect Pacquiao to be as fast as he was. I thought he’d win, but not with a round two knockout!
I know Lennox casually by the way, I met him through Donovan as they are friends from way back and are neighbors now in Jamaica.
Ken
fightnews10 wrote:
Kanada wrote:
After googling Mackie Shilstone, i was directed to his website. I read his “about me” section, and the only worthwhile degree he mentions is his master of arts in business. not to knock the guy, but his credentials do not warrant your worshipping. he’s a guy with a good mind who sold a product, he is no god but sadly yes, just another guru.
Sorry but you are 100% wrong and didn’t read enough. This guy trained Micheal spinks to beat Larry Holmes, Roy Jones to beat John Ruiz, Riddick Bowe, He trained Bernard Hopkins to beat Tarver. You understand who those names are? Do you realize the caliber of athlete were talking about? None of these chumps your talking about can even come close to those kind of athletes, He trains Serena Williams for Christ sake.
Hell ya I was surprised. I thought Hatton had a chance. Paquio is the new Tyson I guess. The guys accuracy is unbelievable. He hits you on the chin every time. Mayweather might have some big problems in that fight? Lenox was the man. Who’s donovan?
Marquez and Pac back to back is going to be tough. I feel bad that Mosley is going to get fucked out of his opportunity and he’s old now. That would have been the fight but Mayweather retired like a coward and a spoiled baby in my eyes. Caulk it up to another great fight that won’t happen unless Mayweather waits until Mosley is way past his prime.[/quote]
Hi JB,
Actually, Pac walks around at 150, and until recently he fights quite a bit lower. I take your point though on Hatton. If you bulk up too much between fights, you have a much much greater risk of getting cut during the fight. Another guy who would bulk up quite a bit was James Toney, but it never hurt him. I think Hatton’s not gonna fight too much longer, and you’re right in that he’ll be up there in weight for sure. But I think he’s one of the few fighters who can do that and not affect their performance.
ken
[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:
The newspapers here in the UK today are filled with pix of Hatton lying around the pool drinking pints of Guiness following his defeat.
Hatton trains like a demon but outside his prep time he is well-known for piling on weight by the alcohol he downs and pies he eats. The drastic weight reduction was bound to catch up with him at some time. I’m convinced he will be end up around 15st wthin a few years of retiring.
I’m sure the Pacman, as well as Mayweather Jnr, have off-season weights no more than 5-6lbs from their fighting weight limits.[/quote]
[quote]Ken Rose wrote:
I don’t feel bad for Mosley though. I agree, he’s fighting well, but he really turned me off with that THG thing. Plus, he’s made a few poor business decisions in who he wanted to fight for how much money; more precisely, his wife made the bad decisions, and now he’s having to deal with them.
To me, he’s kinda like B-Hop with his decisions. I saw Taylor vs Pavlic live in Las Vegas, watched Hop vs Calzaghe on tv, and I was STUNNED when Hop took apart Pavlic! Now, no one wants to fight him. But I blame him for that, because of those earlier decisions in fights.
Do you follow UFC as well? I do, and I enjoy it, but boxing is a passion to me.
fightnews10 wrote:
Ken Rose wrote:
[/quote]
No not really to MMA, Bhop is 44 so that’s okay if no one wants to fight him. Actually a lot of people want to fight him but he’s looking for the biggest payday. I just think Mosley Mayweather would have been a great fight with Mosley having an excellent chance. But he’s going to be way past it if they ever fight.