Supplement/Training Newbie

Nutrition
1

Hi guys,

Just got back into working out, and I’m aiming at a few goals:

  1. Get down to 10% body fat.
  2. Increase to 230 lbs while maintaining 10% body fat.

For weight training, I’m using a training plan similar to Ian King’s training plan in The Book of Muscle (and the plan is by Ian King himself), so I’ve started with a 6 week full body plan that focuses on dumbbell and body weight exercises (the infamous King Deadlift being one of 'em).

I’m lifting 3 days a week. After each session, I do 20 minutes of cardio, with the goal of maintaining a heart rate of 135 (the treadmill helps me do that). On off days, I go for one hour on the treadmill, at the same heart rate of 135 (I’ll be increasing this soon, I came up from 125 on this).

As far as eating goes, I’m using Dr. John Berardi’s Tailor made Nutrition plan and his 7 principles. Basically eating a lot grilled chicken salad, and MRPs (EAS Myoplex Deluxe). After workouts, I’m taking ON’s Pro Complex.

My main goal right now is shedding fat (particularly around the midsection). I’m 6’0" and 220lbs. My body fat% is at 27. Having spent some time lurking around the site, reading articles and so forth, I’m interested in doing the following with regards to supplements:

  1. Purchasing a Whey Protein Isolate/Concentrate Blend for consumption both before and after my workout.

  2. Purchasing a Protein blend with more slowly absorbed proteins for consumption before sleep and after waking up.

  3. A Creatine monohydrate product to be taken post workout, mixed in with the whey protein product.

  4. HOT-ROX Extreme to accelerate fat loss.

If someone with good experience could give me their recommendations regarding what I’m proposing to do, it would be greatly appreciated. I’m very new into supplements, and I’m still learning.

Siraaj

2

post stats so we can judge how far you have to go. Those all seem like great goals and good plans.

Can you cook well? If not get a slow cooker. Make cool P+F “chanko” meals so you never miss a meal, ever.

-chris

3

Siraaj, your supplement needs can all be handled here at the T-Nation store. Look into the Metabolic Drive MRPs which fit the bill as far as what you are looking for in the protein supplement area.

Surge would be the post-work out recovery drink your looking for and you also can get your creatine here as well. You can get darn near every supplement needed for athletic goals here at T-Nation and you are assured of it’s quality and effectiveness.

With supplements it’s the same as with any type of product. Some like Biotest products are high quality and some aren’t worth the containers they come in and you have everything in between.

I advise anyone new to the game to go into the store read up on all the different products so that you have a good idea of their function and can then plan them into your supplement regimen.

D

4

[quote]realpeanutbutter wrote:
post stats so we can judge how far you have to go. Those all seem like great goals and good plans.

Can you cook well? If not get a slow cooker. Make cool P+F “chanko” meals so you never miss a meal, ever.

-chris[/quote]

Hey Chris,

This is where my newbie-ness really kicks in.

  1. Which stats would you like? Which are the most relevant?
  2. I can’t cook, but my wife does, and she uses a slow cooker =D
  3. What’s a P+F “chanko” meal? Right now, I just fill in the gaps with the EAS Myoplex Deluxe Powder (very easy to carry around and take to work).

Siraaj

5

Oh, by the way, I made a mistake in the numbers above, I’m at 23% body fat, not 27%.

Siraaj

6

[quote]Dedicated wrote:
Siraaj, your supplement needs can all be handled here at the T-Nation store. Look into the Metabolic Drive MRPs which fit the bill as far as what you are looking for in the protein supplement area.

Surge would be the post-work out recovery drink your looking for and you also can get your creatine here as well. You can get darn near every supplement needed for athletic goals here at T-Nation and you are assured of it’s quality and effectiveness.

With supplements it’s the same as with any type of product. Some like Biotest products are high quality and some aren’t worth the containers they come in and you have everything in between.

I advise anyone new to the game to go into the store read up on all the different products so that you have a good idea of their function and can then plan them into your supplement regimen.

D [/quote]

Hey D,

Thanks for the shopping advice, it’s most appreciated. I have been looking over Biotest’s other products, and I am considering them.

Right now, I’m trying to figure out what the right cocktail mix for my needs are, and after this, I’ll look which supplement provider has the best product period. But first, I’d like to know if my decision-making is correct regarding the type of supplements I’ve chosen and timing at which I plan to use them.

Siraaj

7

[quote]Siraaj wrote:
Hey Chris,

This is where my newbie-ness really kicks in.

  1. Which stats would you like? Which are the most relevant?
  2. I can’t cook, but my wife does, and she uses a slow cooker =D
  3. What’s a P+F “chanko” meal? Right now, I just fill in the gaps with the EAS Myoplex Deluxe Powder (very easy to carry around and take to work).

Siraaj[/quote]

1 any the more the better the more info you give the easier it is to help.

2 learn how it aint hard and youll need it. unless your wife dont mind tons of cooking.

3 No damn idea what a P+F chanko would be chako by definition is LOADED with carbs from rice. Id say he’s talking about make something like a stew with tons of veggies and meats. Or a chili much the same a big batch of protein and fats with limited carbs mainly low GI veggies.

8

[quote]Phill wrote:
Siraaj wrote:
Hey Chris,

This is where my newbie-ness really kicks in.

  1. Which stats would you like? Which are the most relevant?
  2. I can’t cook, but my wife does, and she uses a slow cooker =D
  3. What’s a P+F “chanko” meal? Right now, I just fill in the gaps with the EAS Myoplex Deluxe Powder (very easy to carry around and take to work).

Siraaj

1 any the more the better the more info you give the easier it is to help.

2 learn how it aint hard and youll need it. unless your wife dont mind tons of cooking.

3 No damn idea what a P+F chanko would be chako by definition is LOADED with carbs from rice. Id say he’s talking about make something like a stew with tons of veggies and meats. Or a chili much the same a big batch of protein and fats with limited carbs mainly low GI veggies.
[/quote]

  1. If you could narrow down your top 5 things you’d like to know, that might make it easier.

  2. My wife really likes cooking for me (it helped contribute to my going over weight in the first place) =D

  3. I’ll, uh, consider it?

Siraaj

9

The supplements recommended are great, but I wouldn’t have you use anything other than HOT-ROX and maybe protein like Metabolic Drive until you bring body fat way down.

At this point it’s silly to get caught up using creatine and all these different types of protein when you need to lose so much fat.

10

[quote]ChrisKing wrote:
The supplements recommended are great, but I wouldn’t have you use anything other than HOT-ROX and maybe protein like Metabolic Drive until you bring body fat way down.

At this point it’s silly to get caught up using creatine and all these different types of protein when you need to lose so much fat.[/quote]

Yeah, see, you read so much online on this site, and it’s hard for me to tell whether the advice is for beginners like me to optimize my work out, or for guys who have a much higher training age. Do I take this protein or that, do I cycle, should I use creatine.

Now, would you recommend Metabolic Drive as a post workout drink, or a “before you sleep” kinda drink or as an MRP during the day? My understanding from Dave Barr’s articles was that Surge was the way to go post workout because (keeping it simple), it comes with the correct delivery system to get protein needed to the muscles quickly, whereas Metabolic Drive was the type of protein that was slowly absorbed and best taken at night before sleep to build muscle while recovering during rest or as an MRP.

Also, I’ve been interested in learning more about HOT-ROX. I see a lot of ads for it, and some testimonials, but can anyone quantify what kind of fat losses they had with and without HOT-ROX in a controlled sort of manner? Have there been any studies, or articles, beyond the product hype articles, talking about the pluses and minuses of HOT-ROX (like Dave Barr’s Metabolic Drive article)? On the one hand, the theory of it as advertised sounds great, but I’d like to know more about the product before making a final decision.

Thanks again for all your help. You guys are really doing a great thing with this site, and it not only keeps me motivated, it also gives me a lot more information than I’ve ever had access to through traditional channels.

Siraaj

11

Just use Metabolic Drive whenever you want supplemental protein in your diet. I often mix a scoop with oatmeal and berries for breakfast. Sometimes I mix it with plain yogurt and Fiber One. You can mix it with water for a quick protein drink.

You’re getting way ahead of yourself with worrying about which type of protein is best at certain times of the day. Just focus on getting protein consistently for now through whole food sources and add Metabolic Drive when your schedule makes it difficult to have chicken, eggs, beef, or other complete protein.

Biotest Surge is great post-workout, but I really don’t think you need to worry about it at this point either. As high as your body fat is, it’s going to take a solid effort to bring it down to 10%. I would only use those products that will directly help you do this at this point. You might even be better off using just BCAAs after training until you’re leaner.

As for HOT-ROX, I can’t give you all the scientific background on it, but I can tell you that it works. I’ve known several people around me that have lost fat significantly faster while using it. There are plenty of articles about it on this site that should answer your questions.

12

[quote]ChrisKing wrote:

Just use Metabolic Drive whenever you want supplemental protein in your diet. I often mix a scoop with oatmeal and berries for breakfast. Sometimes I mix it with plain yogurt and Fiber One. You can mix it with water for a quick protein drink.

You’re getting way ahead of yourself with worrying about which type of protein is best at certain times of the day. Just focus on getting protein consistently for now through whole food sources and add Metabolic Drive when your schedule makes it difficult to have chicken, eggs, beef, or other complete protein.

Biotest Surge is great post-workout, but I really don’t think you need to worry about it at this point either. As high as your body fat is, it’s going to take a solid effort to bring it down to 10%. I would only use those products that will directly help you do this at this point. You might even be better off using just BCAAs after training until you’re leaner.

As for HOT-ROX, I can’t give you all the scientific background on it, but I can tell you that it works. I’ve known several people around me that have lost fat significantly faster while using it. There are plenty of articles about it on this site that should answer your questions.[/quote]

This is a bit similar to what I’ve been doing in the past. I’ve been using ON Pro Complex post workout and EAS Myoplex Deluxe (I know, it’s like a four letter word, just with more letters, over here) for MRPs.

So as far as MRPs go, for my situation I’d switch out Myoplex for Metabolic Drive (Complete or, uh, in-Complete?), toss in some Hot-Rox to supplement fat loss. I’ve had some pretty good results with ON Pro Complex (and dude, the Rocky Road tastes awesome). However, taste doesn’t mean anything if it’s not being used optimally. You’ve recommended BCAAs post workout - would you also recommend some sort of protein drink post workout as well? And if so, would you continue to recommend Metabolic Drive along with BCAAs, BCAAs by themselves (I’m guessing you don’t mean this), or could I go with something like ON Pro Complex post-workout?

Thanks again for all the advice and experiences Chris. I would hate to have re-invent the wheel, make all the mistakes, and waste time and money on supplements which aren’t needed for my current goals.

Siraaj

13

[quote]Siraaj wrote:So as far as MRPs go, for my situation I’d switch out Myoplex for Metabolic Drive (Complete or, uh, in-Complete?), toss in some HOT-ROX to supplement fat loss. I’ve had some pretty good results with ON Pro Complex (and dude, the Rocky Road tastes awesome). However, taste doesn’t mean anything if it’s not being used optimally. You’ve recommended BCAAs post workout - would you also recommend some sort of protein drink post workout as well? And if so, would you continue to recommend Metabolic Drive along with BCAAs, BCAAs by themselves (I’m guessing you don’t mean this), or could I go with something like ON Pro Complex post-workout?

Thanks again for all the advice and experiences Chris. I would hate to have re-invent the wheel, make all the mistakes, and waste time and money on supplements which aren’t needed for my current goals.

Siraaj[/quote]

Again, keep it simple.

If you just want to supplement protein to food, use Metabolic Drive Low-Carb. If you want more balanced nutrition in a drink, go with Metabolic Drive Complete.

I recommend using just BCAAs immediately after training followed by a meal 30 to 60 minutes later.

I’m not a big fan of ON products. You can PM me for details if you want. I don’t want to get into bashing their stuff here.