I know protagonist/antagonist training is very effective but I couldn’t find much talk about same muscle group supersets, e.g. bench and flys…in your guys experience are they good? bad? comments?
Thanks for your help
[quote]stone89 wrote:
I know protagonist/antagonist training is very effective but I couldn’t find much talk about same muscle group supersets, e.g. bench and flys…in your guys experience are they good? bad? comments?
Thanks for your help[/quote]
I like em’
My whole routine is supersets. Same muscle group. I feel the workout is quicker, more intense, and the muscle gets destroyed more.
Some people may not like supersets… but its all I do.
I use to do stripper sets, drop down sets, giant sets. But I think the superset is perfect. Even working chest/back or bi/tri is nice… but I stick to mostly a bench/fly superset and a barbell curl/dumbbell curl superset.
Pre-Fatigue supersets are excellent too. Isolation followed by Compound or even some times the opposite.
Flyes
Bench or Incline
Lateral Raise
Overhead Press or Upright Rows
Reverse Wrist Curls
Reverse Curls or Hammers
(even follow-up with Wrist Curls or BB Curls for a real blast)
Leg Ext
Leg Press
Leg Curls
Romanian or SLDLs
Lying Tri Ext
CG Bench
Overhead Tri Ext
Dips
DB Curls
Rev-Grip Pulldowns
Neck Flexion
Shrugs
etc. etc. etc.
Supersets are highly effective in more ways then one. They give you a wicked pump filling the area with blood. They can annihilate a muscle group stimulating more growth. They can give you a wicked cardio boost burning your heart and lungs. Check out my blog for examples. We were doing some sick superset variations up until a few weeks ago.
D
[quote]simon-hecubus wrote:
Pre-Fatigue supersets are excellent too. Isolation followed by Compound or even some times the opposite.
Flyes
Bench or Incline
[/quote]
Yep… that’s what I do.
I’ve experimented with about 1000 different routines and this superset routine I’ve come up with leaves my chest destroyed everytime.
I do 2 warms ups- pullover 20 reps supersetted with a 40 rep bench press.
then 4-5 supersets of dec dumbbell flyes 8-12 reps & dec dumbbell presses 6-10 reps
then 3-4 supersets of incline dumbbell presses for 12-16 reps & close grip incline bench press for 16-20 reps
then 2-3 supersets of dips & push-ups
Every area of my chest is sore everytime… upper, lower, outer, inner, middle.
I think same-body part SS can be great. But like anything, do NOT overuse them. Use them as a tool in your tool box. CT has talked about this kind of SS in a few of his articles and why they can be good.
BUT, if you were to use them all the time, I think you’d be doing yourself a disservice. It’s harder to get a whole lot stronger on bench, for example, if you always follow it up w/ a fly. If you do this, you’ll be more fatigued and not be able to go as heavy on the following sets. So yeah, use them in phases, but I say NOT all the time.
Danny
[quote]Dboy wrote:
I think same-body part SS can be great. But like anything, do NOT overuse them. Use them as a tool in your tool box. CT has talked about this kind of SS in a few of his articles and why they can be good.
BUT, if you were to use them all the time, I think you’d be doing yourself a disservice. It’s harder to get a whole lot stronger on bench, for example, if you always follow it up w/ a fly. If you do this, you’ll be more fatigued and not be able to go as heavy on the following sets. So yeah, use them in phases, but I say NOT all the time.
Danny[/quote]
Different strokes for different folks.
I use them all the time for that exact reason. “It’s harder”
If I wanted it easier, I would just do benches than flyes or whatever. this way I’m always struggeling to push thru these sets. It creates a contant overload all the time. This fatiguing factor is what cuase them tp push harder… therefore making the exercsie that much tougher.
I wouldn’t suggest doing supersets if you want an easier workout or something your body can get used to and comfortable with.
I have yet to find comfort while doing these. They bust my ass everytime. If the first set don’t get you, the second one sure as hell will.
Again, I would not suggest supersets if you want an easier workout. This really progressively pushes your muscles to work harder and grow.
Whatever exercise your doing or workout program… all this one does is make it harder.
as was stated above. pre fatigue sets are great, they give a great pump. ONCE in a great while to change up my routine i do a pre and post fatigue method which really shocks the muscle. give it a try.
Example:
Flyes
Bench Press
Flyes
or you could always do the HSS-100 method of doing just plain BB bench press first for 4-5 sets, then move on to a superset of db press supersetted with flyes. 
thanks for your help guys
a quick follow-up question: do you guys recommend doing heavy (4-5 reps) bench/row supersetted with light (15 reps) fly/lat pull down (or another back exercise) or moderate (8-10) reps supersetted with moderate reps?
I hope I didn’t word that too badly
Thanks again
[quote]stone89 wrote:
thanks for your help guys
a quick follow-up question: do you guys recommend doing heavy (4-5 reps) bench/row supersetted with light (15 reps) fly/lat pull down (or another back exercise) or moderate (8-10) reps supersetted with moderate reps?
I hope I didn’t word that too badly
Thanks again [/quote]
experiment… see what works for you. Everybodys body responds differently to different rep ranges. I’m a rare case that actually uses higher reps to bulk. Probably due to feeling more comfortable with more reps and I feel a better breakdown. It might just be a headthing for me. I have failed trying to bulk using anything less than 6 reps. For me 6-20 reps depending on the exercise seems to work supersetted or not.
I would suggest 6-12 reps when supersetting. If you do the same muscle superset, the second set is hell and totally kills the muscle… so the reps are always a little bit lower with a weight that you could usually throw around quite easily.
Remember that stress is what breaks down a muscle, not weight. As long as you are putting some serious stress on your muscles… the reps and weight don’t matter much.
Especially when your muscle is so fucking destroyed that it doesn’t bother to ask what weight you just lifted or how many reps you did with it. Its looking to repair the damage and build it up bigger so it can try to adapt with the stress you just put it under.
[quote]Go heavy fool wrote:
Dboy wrote:
I think same-body part SS can be great. But like anything, do NOT overuse them. Use them as a tool in your tool box. CT has talked about this kind of SS in a few of his articles and why they can be good.
BUT, if you were to use them all the time, I think you’d be doing yourself a disservice. It’s harder to get a whole lot stronger on bench, for example, if you always follow it up w/ a fly. If you do this, you’ll be more fatigued and not be able to go as heavy on the following sets. So yeah, use them in phases, but I say NOT all the time.
Danny
Different strokes for different folks.
I use them all the time for that exact reason. “It’s harder”
If I wanted it easier, I would just do benches than flyes or whatever. this way I’m always struggeling to push thru these sets. It creates a contant overload all the time. This fatiguing factor is what cuase them tp push harder… therefore making the exercsie that much tougher.
I wouldn’t suggest doing supersets if you want an easier workout or something your body can get used to and comfortable with.
I have yet to find comfort while doing these. They bust my ass everytime. If the first set don’t get you, the second one sure as hell will.
Again, I would not suggest supersets if you want an easier workout. This really progressively pushes your muscles to work harder and grow.
Whatever exercise your doing or workout program… all this one does is make it harder.
[/quote]
Go Heavy Fool,
That’s GREAT that you have seen such great results w/ exclusively SS. But there are MANY ways to make the workout harder, (yes, SS is ONE way). For example, going heavier w/ antagonist SS or straight sets is another way. The method of training chosen should fit the training affect you seek. And if only doing same body part SS delivers to you the desired training affect, more power to you.
Danny
[quote]Go heavy fool wrote:
Dboy wrote:
I think same-body part SS can be great. But like anything, do NOT overuse them. Use them as a tool in your tool box. CT has talked about this kind of SS in a few of his articles and why they can be good.
BUT, if you were to use them all the time, I think you’d be doing yourself a disservice. It’s harder to get a whole lot stronger on bench, for example, if you always follow it up w/ a fly. If you do this, you’ll be more fatigued and not be able to go as heavy on the following sets. So yeah, use them in phases, but I say NOT all the time.
Danny
Different strokes for different folks.
I use them all the time for that exact reason. “It’s harder”
If I wanted it easier, I would just do benches than flyes or whatever. this way I’m always struggeling to push thru these sets. It creates a contant overload all the time. This fatiguing factor is what cuase them tp push harder… therefore making the exercsie that much tougher.
I wouldn’t suggest doing supersets if you want an easier workout or something your body can get used to and comfortable with.
I have yet to find comfort while doing these. They bust my ass everytime. If the first set don’t get you, the second one sure as hell will.
Again, I would not suggest supersets if you want an easier workout. This really progressively pushes your muscles to work harder and grow.
Whatever exercise your doing or workout program… all this one does is make it harder.
[/quote]
Supersets can be an effective training technique. BUT, if that’s all you do, you are missing out on a great deal of workout and benefit. It ain’t all about ‘destroying’ the muscle. Don’t let fatigue be your only barometer as to the effectiveness of a workout.
Harder doesn’t always equal smarter.
Harder doesn’t always equal better.
Easier doesn’t always imply pussy. There are ‘easier’ workouts that actually promote more muscle growth than tearing 'em down. Periodization is part of a workout too many don’t take advantage of. I think it can yeild great results and really keep the furnace burning for muscle growth and repair. I think it’s one of the most underutilized training techniques around.
e
[quote]sasquatch wrote:
There are ‘easier’ workouts that actually promote more muscle growth than tearing 'em down. [/quote]
huh? Are you talking about hypnosis or some form of electronic stimulation. I’ll just stick with ‘good ole resistance training’ and break down my muscle tissue so it rebuilds and grows bigger.
[quote]sasquatch wrote:
Harder doesn’t always equal smarter.
Harder doesn’t always equal better.
[/quote]
exactly!
thats why I don’t use a bench press and add tons of weight. its “harder” to develop my chest muscles that way and the exercise is harder to do than a dumbbell press and fly with more controlable weight targeting and taxing the chest to the max {wink} easier exercise and much harder on the muscle
some people would rather just bench a shitload of weight and have no chest development… but hey, it sure looks cool benching a bunch of weight.
What about rest periods between the supersets? How long are they, and do you change them up?
I am almost done with CT’s Superhero program in which he uses a lot of supersets, and I have never seen better gains…but it took me awhile to get used to doing 2-3 exercises at a time with less than 60 seconds between each superset. Brutal.
[quote]Go heavy fool wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
Harder doesn’t always equal smarter.
Harder doesn’t always equal better.
exactly!
thats why I don’t use a bench press and add tons of weight. its “harder” to develop my chest muscles that way and the exercise is harder to do than a dumbbell press and fly with more controlable weight targeting and taxing the chest to the max {wink} easier exercise and much harder on the muscle
some people would rather just bench a shitload of weight and have no chest development… but hey, it sure looks cool benching a bunch of weight.
[/quote]
I get it–you’d rather look like you are strong than be strong. That’s cool. I have no problem with your particular mindset. You just are unable to grasp any concept above supersets. Continue to work harder than the rest of us.
[quote]Go heavy fool wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
There are ‘easier’ workouts that actually promote more muscle growth than tearing 'em down.
huh? Are you talking about hypnosis or some form of electronic stimulation. I’ll just stick with ‘good ole resistance training’ and break down my muscle tissue so it rebuilds and grows bigger.
[/quote]
read above. It’s apparent you have no real advanced capabilities to grasp anything above-“I work harder than you.”
So stick with that good ole resistance training, cause this–according to you, would not include speed work or periodization or active recovery or…
anything that isn’t supersets to the max
[quote]sportzphan wrote:
I do 2 warms ups- pullover 20 reps supersetted with a 40 rep bench press.
then 4-5 supersets of dec dumbbell flyes 8-12 reps & dec dumbbell presses 6-10 reps
then 3-4 supersets of incline dumbbell presses for 12-16 reps & close grip incline bench press for 16-20 reps
then 2-3 supersets of dips & push-ups
Every area of my chest is sore everytime… upper, lower, outer, inner, middle.
What about rest periods between the supersets? How long are they, and do you change them up?
I am almost done with CT’s Superhero program in which he uses a lot of supersets, and I have never seen better gains…but it took me awhile to get used to doing 2-3 exercises at a time with less than 60 seconds between each superset. Brutal.
[/quote]
Yes Brutal. when i first started i was really huffing and puffing.
I rest 10-15 sec after the first set, then 2-3 minutes after the second set.
These do take a while to get used to… cardio-wise anyway.
I got caught on to supersets after i built up my arms by doing like 4 or 5 supersetted exercises all in the same shot with very little rest if any between exercises.
Starting out, I would say no more than 30 seconds rest and then try to work it down to zero. Just enough time to change exercises and weights is all that is needed.
[quote]sasquatch wrote:
Go heavy fool wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
Harder doesn’t always equal smarter.
Harder doesn’t always equal better.
exactly!
thats why I don’t use a bench press and add tons of weight. its “harder” to develop my chest muscles that way and the exercise is harder to do than a dumbbell press and fly with more controlable weight targeting and taxing the chest to the max {wink} easier exercise and much harder on the muscle
some people would rather just bench a shitload of weight and have no chest development… but hey, it sure looks cool benching a bunch of weight.
I get it–you’d rather look like you are strong than be strong. That’s cool. I have no problem with your particular mindset. You just are unable to grasp any concept above supersets. Continue to work harder than the rest of us.[/quote]
Hey its all good. I was just stating my ‘opinion’ on the value of supersets. Nobody has to agree with that. I was just giving them a positive rep. I went from 15" arms to 20" arms thanks to supersets. I’ll keep my program… thanks.