Charles Poliquin, CT and Joel Marion advice trainees to use these methods for hypertrophy. Anyone saw better results with “intensive methods” than with straight sets?
I gained the most mass using heavy ass drop sets. 5 sets of 5 mini-sets of 5 reps. No rest between mini-sets. Of course, I did them on isolation exercises. Doing them on compound stuff would be too hard on the body.
Point is, they’re effective, but don’t overdo them.
CT pointed out that going to failure and beyond should only be done in iso exercises.
[quote]Player wrote:
CT pointed out that going to failure and beyond should only be done in iso exercises.
[/quote]
Stop misquoting me when you clearly have a very limited understanding of what I’m saying!
You can use drop-sets and rest-pause sets without going to failure.
For example you can use cluster sets. A basic cluster is done by performing 5 reps with a load that you could normally lift 2-3 times. You do so by resting 9-12 seconds between each repetition.
For example, on the bench press:
Perform repetition no.1
Rack the bar and rest 9 seconds
Perform repetition no.2
Rack the bar and rest 10 seconds
Perform repetition no.3
Rack the bar and rest 11 seconds
Perform repetition no.4
Rack the bar and rest 12 seconds
Perform repetition no.5
END OF SET
You are actually not going to failure because each rep is completed, BUT you are performing and extended set method.
Another example… you could perform a rest/pause set. For example, using a load that you can COMPLETE 6 times:
Perform 6 reps on the bench press
Rest 10 seconds
Perform 3 more reps
Rest 12 seconds
Perform 1 last rep
END OF SET
Once again you are not going to failure, BUT you are doing 10 reps with a load that you would normally perform 6 times.
My bad, understand it, though I can’t see great benefits for the intensive methods if you don’t go and really push it. Coach, what I was quoting was that in your thib system you said that in exercises where CNS involvement is high going to failure is really hard on the body.
Christian I understand the cluster example
but not this one…
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Another example… you could perform a rest/pause set. For example, using a load that you can COMPLETE 6 times:
Perform 6 reps on the bench press
Rest 10 seconds
Perform 3 more reps
Rest 12 seconds
Perform 1 last rep
END OF SET
Once again you are not going to failure, BUT you are doing 10 reps with a load that you would normally perform 6 times.[/quote]
I would consider not being able to perform the 7th repition(and most likely the 4th and 2nd repitions on the rest of the set) to be going to failure. Do you have a different interpretation?
Assuming the trainee is pushing his limits of course and the 6th rep took every ounce of effort he had, and a 7th rep wouldn’t have moved an inch off his chest of course.
[quote]Scott M wrote:
Christian I understand the cluster example
but not this one…
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Another example… you could perform a rest/pause set. For example, using a load that you can COMPLETE 6 times:
Perform 6 reps on the bench press
Rest 10 seconds
Perform 3 more reps
Rest 12 seconds
Perform 1 last rep
END OF SET
Once again you are not going to failure, BUT you are doing 10 reps with a load that you would normally perform 6 times.
I would consider not being able to perform the 7th repition(and most likely the 4th and 2nd repitions on the rest of the set) to be going to failure. Do you have a different interpretation?
Assuming the trainee is pushing his limits of course and the 6th rep took every ounce of effort he had, and a 7th rep wouldn’t have moved an inch off his chest of course. [/quote]
To me being able to complete a repetition is NOT going to failure. By definition, going to FAILure entails failing to complete the movement.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Scott M wrote:
Christian I understand the cluster example
but not this one…
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Another example… you could perform a rest/pause set. For example, using a load that you can COMPLETE 6 times:
Perform 6 reps on the bench press
Rest 10 seconds
Perform 3 more reps
Rest 12 seconds
Perform 1 last rep
END OF SET
Once again you are not going to failure, BUT you are doing 10 reps with a load that you would normally perform 6 times.
I would consider not being able to perform the 7th repition(and most likely the 4th and 2nd repitions on the rest of the set) to be going to failure. Do you have a different interpretation?
Assuming the trainee is pushing his limits of course and the 6th rep took every ounce of effort he had, and a 7th rep wouldn’t have moved an inch off his chest of course.
To me being able to complete a repetition is NOT going to failure. By definition, going to FAILure entails failing to complete the movement.
[/quote]
I have a problem because I have no partner to workout with, on bench that is dangerous so, i can’t reach failure. Would you recommend this method on this situation? i have a chest to grow and I don’t find the bench rewarding at all, compared to DBs. what would you recommend for a begginer like me that wants chest mass (as soon as possible)?
It’s right there!
Pick a weight you can do 6 times, do a set of 6, rack the weight, rest a few seconds, lift again until you feel you’re getting close to failure, rack and rest, then do one more set of as many as you can do stopping short of failure.
If DBs work better, you can do it with them and go to failure.
It’s lifting weights, not rocket science. You’re looking for gimmicks that don’t exist. Lift heavy shit, over time, if the weights keep going up, you’ll grow. It’s that easy.
I loved this stuff! I used it for 5 weeks and put on some serious weight. You have to be good about intensity though - low volume training requires you to say “ok, I know I’m tired, but I need to get 1 more rep in.” And then you find the courage to do 3 more reps. It’s mental, but it packs on the pounds.
Drop sets were very effective for me back when I did Trevor Smith’s beyond failure training.
Back then I was already fairly advanced, and had my head on straight as to what it took to keep on gaining.
In my beginner years though, I tried all those different hit programs with all kinds of intensity techniques and must say that they can really distract the unexperienced from the necessary regular weight increases and such…
It’s harder to keep track of your actual progress and I found it hard to beat the logbook every session…
You just need some experience there, or very good coaching (which wasn’t available to me).
As for Juan’s post…
If you’re a beginner and Thibs helps you out, that’s great.
But perhaps you should do a more basic style of training and really get the weights you’re using up (for reps), that should bring plenty of mass…
It’s just too easy to get distracted from the important things when using these methods.
Besides, as a beginner you should grow fine on any program that pays attention to all muscle groups, stresses beating the logbook and keeps recovery in mind.
No need for advanced stuff, really.
Just increase the weights, rotate exercises when you hit a plateau and eat plenty.