Suggestion Box? Info for Beginners

Off Topic
1

I was about to flame the OP of “Need Help Getting Ripped” when I throught to myself this is a “bodybuilding” site what kind of idiot can’t go to the main page and find a simple bodybuilding program. To gather evidence I decided to act like I don’t know shit(end quote add your sarcastic joke) go to the front page and get HYuge.

HOLY SHIT I WAS LOST.

Let me say this to a beginner or even someone who hasn’t been on the internet all day every day this was the most confusing site I’ve seen.

I wouldn’t buy a supplement because there’s a million different ones plastered with bright colors talking about dha and anobolism and all kinds of stuff. How would I know what this is?

Then I ask for advice and I get flame throwers talking about use the search function… I’m all for search but shouldn’t the first thing a muscle building site do is tell you how to build muscle? Have you seen the results of a search? you got 50 threads, with 5000 forum members arguing use cardio/don’t use cardio… Diet/don’t diet… fish oil helps/fish oil doesn’t help. Eat Protein shakes/No only whole foods necessary, MMF, Pankcakes, Waffles.

I know theres a million things to argue but forget about the forum members, you have some pretty good authors. Is it possible to get them to vote on a program with maybe a protein shake a basic internet passerby can follow. I mean we’re talking about average couch potato’s here, damn near 100 pushups a day will help. As they lift and learn more they can understand the articles and what to read when they use the search function.

Oh yeah, and it would be nice to have a suggestion box. Even if you don’t read them just a place I can vent.

2

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
I was about to flame the OP of “Need Help Getting Ripped” when I throught to myself this is a “bodybuilding” site what kind of idiot can’t go to the main page and find a simple bodybuilding program. To gather evidence I decided to act like I don’t know shit(end quote add your sarcastic joke) go to the front page and get HYuge.

HOLY SHIT I WAS LOST.

Let me say this to a beginner or even someone who hasn’t been on the internet all day every day this was the most confusing site I’ve seen.

I wouldn’t buy a supplement because there’s a million different ones plastered with bright colors talking about dha and anobolism and all kinds of stuff. How would I know what this is?

Then I ask for advice and I get flame throwers talking about use the search function… I’m all for search but shouldn’t the first thing a muscle building site do is tell you how to build muscle? Have you seen the results of a search? you got 50 threads, with 5000 forum members arguing use cardio/don’t use cardio… Diet/don’t diet… fish oil helps/fish oil doesn’t help. Eat Protein shakes/No only whole foods necessary, MMF, Pankcakes, Waffles.

I know theres a million things to argue but forget about the forum members, you have some pretty good authors. Is it possible to get them to vote on a program with maybe a protein shake a basic internet passerby can follow. I mean we’re talking about average couch potato’s here, damn near 100 pushups a day will help. As they lift and learn more they can understand the articles and what to read when they use the search function.

Oh yeah, and it would be nice to have a suggestion box. Even if you don’t read them just a place I can vent.
[/quote]

That would be a waste of time. Want to know why? Because most of these beginners don’t even see themselves as beginners. Even more are under the impression that they can completely skip the basics because they are more focused on quoting some author word for word as if they need to be training like Chinese Olympic weight lifters.

We talk about the basics DAILY. Because that is what works…and it has taken most of them nearly 10 years just to realize that it is the most important.

These people today want to pretend. They want to focus on theory while ignoring the hard work. These people don’t sweat when they train. Giving them routines to follow only leads to them focusing more on the specific number of reps used than whether they are gaining strength.

Your idea might have a place…if this site were filled with people who plan to work so hard that they look very different by this time next year.

But that isn’t reality.

These are the types of people who post before pictures with no afters. Real lifters would look around the site until they figured out who had made the most progress and who here was bullshitting.

3

This is not a site for a newbe beginner. The problem with your suggestion (and it is valid) is that if you lower the standard to the lowest common denominator you will lose your other audience. Guys who go to this site in my opinion have started in the GYM not an internet site.

I didnt start learning my profession by going to the Houston Area Nurse Practitioner site, I went to school and learned. Just my opinion but if someone is serious about lifting the will go to the gym find the biggest fucker there and talk his ear off. On the internet we can all be 6’5" 300 lb beasts. Learn to lurk best thing I can offer.

4

[quote]Professor X wrote:

That would be a waste of time. Want to know why? Because most of these beginners don’t even see themselves as beginners. Even more are under the impression that they can completely skip the basics because they are more focused on quoting some author word for word as if they need to be training like Chinese Olympic weight lifters.

[/quote] That’s an excellent point. Recently, I’ve seen people posting threads on different topics in both the beginners and bodybuilding sections. I won’t name and shame, but these same people post extensively in the bodybuilding forum (usually on threads asking for advice) and backtrack when the experienced members tear them down - acting like they never intended to make the point in the first place…well, why post it, then?!

I’ve witnessed a few threads in the last month where the OP specifically requests that only advanced guys post their experiences. What happens? Dankid and an assortment of guys who clearly aren’t advanced turn up and proceed to screw the thread out of any value it might’ve had (btw, this isn’t directed at guys who state that they aren’t advanced before sharing their experiences; just the guys who pretend that they are).

Quite a few people post just to show how much they can talk on a given topic. Most of us know who they are. Their hearts may be in the right place, but they are totally oblivious to the fact that their posts often come across as rambling, complicated and contradictory. I can only assume they are trying to impress others with their knowledge, but all this does is muddy the waters even more.

No wonder rank beginners are scratching their heads in confusion; it’s because beginners insist on educating other beginners using info they got from a book.

5

x2

ProfX speaks the word.

Any beginner must take the time to read and research. An education in lifting takes lots of time and effort, and the practice can be a series of trial and error before you know what works for you.

Most beginners don’t quit for lack of suggestions, or from not having a specific workout and diet regime.

Most beginners quit from lack of dedication and effort. They have unrealistic expectations that require instant results. Ain’t gonna happen, kids.

6

I agree that search function sucks and this place is tough to navigate in the beginning. I always search through google. Even the way the products section is organized sucks ass. I read the articles every day before I ever looked in the forums. Then the articles started contradicting each other and that’s when I started looking for info in the forums. It was like night and day as far as this site’s actual usefulness to me.

I read in the BB forum but posted in the beginners forum and I think that’s the best way to start until you find out who the guys that are actually getting big and strong are. Once you sort that out, this site is an excellent resource.

7

I always found this site to be amazingly easy to navigate. Compared to other bodybuilding websites this one is a pleasure to use.

8

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Airtruth wrote:

HOLY SHIT I WAS LOST.
[/quote]

That would be a waste of time. Want to know why? Because most of these beginners don’t even see themselves as beginners. Even more are under the impression that they can completely skip the basics because they are more focused on quoting some author word for word as if they need to be training like Chinese Olympic weight lifters.

We talk about the basics DAILY. Because that is what works…and it has taken most of them nearly 10 years just to realize that it is the most important.

These people today want to pretend. They want to focus on theory while ignoring the hard work. These people don’t sweat when they train. Giving them routines to follow only leads to them focusing more on the specific number of reps used than whether they are gaining strength.

Your idea might have a place…if this site were filled with people who plan to work so hard that they look very different by this time next year.

But that isn’t reality.

These are the types of people who post before pictures with no afters. Real lifters would look around the site until they figured out who had made the most progress and who here was bullshitting.[/quote]

I’m not normally this cheesy but I don’t think you give people enough credit.

There are 10 million people who will start a diet and quit the next day I give you that but I think there are still a million others that if they knew basics of what to do would at least keep themselves fit. Half a million that would take it as a seriuos hobby that they never plan to compete in and 10,000 who would at least make a serious attempt.

I think we lose perspective coming on here. Most people are not like these beginners that troll on here. They come on here to start shit like us in the knitting forums, but I would bet theres a million people that click on the www.tmuscle.com site then move on.

That’s why I was saying their should be a program on the main page that’s clearly labeled basic program or program for beginners. Me and you know what the anaconda protocal is because we come on ehre all the time, but imagine if you never picked up a weight or heard of this stuff and went to the main page do you think you would understand any of it?

Also I was thinking it wasn’t something in the forums, but on the main page. If a beginner comes in the forums and sees a debate between me and you talking about splits and tbt for beginners instead of choosing one they’ll probably do what they percieve as combo of both which would probably lead them to quitting lifting all together.

Everybody can’t be as focused as you but they still want a little something something.

9

[quote]Professor X wrote:
That would be a waste of time. Want to know why? Because most of these beginners don’t even see themselves as beginners. Even more are under the impression that they can completely skip the basics because they are more focused on quoting some author word for word as if they need to be training like Chinese Olympic weight lifters.

We talk about the basics DAILY. Because that is what works…and it has taken most of them nearly 10 years just to realize that it is the most important.

These people today want to pretend. They want to focus on theory while ignoring the hard work. These people don’t sweat when they train. Giving them routines to follow only leads to them focusing more on the specific number of reps used than whether they are gaining strength.

Your idea might have a place…if this site were filled with people who plan to work so hard that they look very different by this time next year.

But that isn’t reality.

These are the types of people who post before pictures with no afters. Real lifters would look around the site until they figured out who had made the most progress and who here was bullshitting.[/quote]

True. I think my mindset that I was female and therefore was even more of a beginner and needed to work on the basics even more actually helped me a lot in the long run because I knew I couldn’t skip anything because I was lacking everywhere.

But honestly I don’t think it’s all that confusing if you use your head a bit. It’s just that it’s not easy.

10

I may just be a loser with too much time on my hands, but I barely do anything at work all day but browse this site. Huge lurker newb, I know. At first, I just read the article of the day, not really knowing what else to look for. But boredom led me to the stickies, forum, old authors info, etc. Holy shit, there is a ton of stuff to read here. The beginner must read thread was a good jumping off point, although it took me a while to find it.

Either way, I’ve spent sooooo much time reading articles, I know what analysis paralysis feels like. But I had lifted before coming here, and read all the retarded muscle mags (sacrilege!), so understood the super basic stuff like a rep, set, and split. But I still don’t really get the details of some of the more scientific reads.

Point is, this place can be like reading the encyclopedia. Informative as hell, but without direction, a little overwhelming. Maybe a welcome to the site type page-- basic pointers to using the site with an etiquette section-- when you sign up? Wouldn’t take long to make, easy enough to skip if you don’t care, and it might save people from the 9 millionth post on hawt abz or gettin’ hyooge.

Course I’m not a mod, I just lurk here.

11

[quote]Airtruth wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Airtruth wrote:

HOLY SHIT I WAS LOST.
[/quote]

That would be a waste of time. Want to know why? Because most of these beginners don’t even see themselves as beginners. Even more are under the impression that they can completely skip the basics because they are more focused on quoting some author word for word as if they need to be training like Chinese Olympic weight lifters.

We talk about the basics DAILY. Because that is what works…and it has taken most of them nearly 10 years just to realize that it is the most important.

These people today want to pretend. They want to focus on theory while ignoring the hard work. These people don’t sweat when they train. Giving them routines to follow only leads to them focusing more on the specific number of reps used than whether they are gaining strength.

Your idea might have a place…if this site were filled with people who plan to work so hard that they look very different by this time next year.

But that isn’t reality.

These are the types of people who post before pictures with no afters. Real lifters would look around the site until they figured out who had made the most progress and who here was bullshitting.[/quote]

I’m not normally this cheesy but I don’t think you give people enough credit.

There are 10 million people who will start a diet and quit the next day I give you that but I think there are still a million others that if they knew basics of what to do would at least keep themselves fit. Half a million that would take it as a seriuos hobby that they never plan to compete in and 10,000 who would at least make a serious attempt.

I think we lose perspective coming on here. Most people are not like these beginners that troll on here. They come on here to start shit like us in the knitting forums, but I would bet theres a million people that click on the www.tmuscle.com site then move on.

That’s why I was saying their should be a program on the main page that’s clearly labeled basic program or program for beginners. Me and you know what the anaconda protocal is because we come on ehre all the time, but imagine if you never picked up a weight or heard of this stuff and went to the main page do you think you would understand any of it?

Also I was thinking it wasn’t something in the forums, but on the main page. If a beginner comes in the forums and sees a debate between me and you talking about splits and tbt for beginners instead of choosing one they’ll probably do what they percieve as combo of both which would probably lead them to quitting lifting all together.

Everybody can’t be as focused as you but they still want a little something something.[/quote]

The thing about basic programming is that there is no one perfect program for everybody. And making a blanket program to try an fit everybody’s needs will result in alot of people not making progress. Squats and milk isn’t for everyone.
If T-Nation had one of these generic “on size fits all” programs on the front page, and then a bunch of beginners started doing it and made no progress, it would make T-Nation look bad. Better they just let the individual sub-forums run their course and present multiple techniques.

12

I think, in general, the Mods do a pretty good job of keeping beginner-level questions in the Beginners forum and not in Bodybuilding Training, even when the poster isn’t an admitted beginner.

I’ll be the first to admit that the Beginner’s forum requires more patience, deep breathing, and a reminder that “okay, everyone started somewhere.” And that’s why it chaps my ass when a more experienced poster will flame a newbie because they had the nerve (or the balls) to ask a “stupid question that should be common knowledge” in the damn Beginner’s forum.

It’s not so much about treating beginners with kid gloves as much as it’s about recognizing the potential of a site like this having a specific place designed to educate newbie lifters. If you’re not able to give constructive advice to a beginner, that’s fine. You don’t have to.

But to post in a Beginner’s thread just to chew them out for not knowing more from the start or for having the “wrong” attitude is exactly what I think encourages them to never learn or progress. Bust their balls if necessary, sure, but it’s pretty easy to bookmark two or three links (to articles, threads, and/or stickies) that you toss at newbs when they ask a “stupid question.”

Bottom line is that it would be great, however unlikely, for the community as a whole if the more experienced guys contributed useful info to the Beginners, instead of throwing up their hands in frustration because the newbs don’t meet some attitude or knowledge standard.

13

maybe there could be some kind of peer review member credibility rating?

There are some here that are for real and bunch of BS’ers. To the non-initiated, you could get mislead by the forums but the articles have tons of great advise and I’m thankful that there is this kind of resource.

14

[quote]DJHT wrote:
This is not a site for a newbe beginner. The problem with your suggestion (and it is valid) is that if you lower the standard to the lowest common denominator you will lose your other audience. Guys who go to this site in my opinion have started in the GYM not an internet site.

I didnt start learning my profession by going to the Houston Area Nurse Practitioner site, I went to school and learned. Just my opinion but if someone is serious about lifting the will go to the gym find the biggest fucker there and talk his ear off. On the internet we can all be 6’5" 300 lb beasts. Learn to lurk best thing I can offer. [/quote]

This USED to be a bodybuilding site that made money on the side, they redesigned the whole front page on the premise of selling supplements being their primary goal. I would think it’s hard to sell a product if people are so bombarded by variation they avoid buying anything. I could be wrong since i’m not a marketing wiz but it would seem that way.

Yes you went to school to learn nursing but did they try to teach you how to listen for breathing abnormalities the first day? I don’t know if your a computer science person but my intent is something similar to a “Hello World” for bodybuilding. That’s basically something simple anybody can do where if they do it they have what it takes to at least make a decision on if they want to go farther.

15

[quote]Airtruth wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:
This is not a site for a newbe beginner. The problem with your suggestion (and it is valid) is that if you lower the standard to the lowest common denominator you will lose your other audience. Guys who go to this site in my opinion have started in the GYM not an internet site.

I didnt start learning my profession by going to the Houston Area Nurse Practitioner site, I went to school and learned. Just my opinion but if someone is serious about lifting the will go to the gym find the biggest fucker there and talk his ear off. On the internet we can all be 6’5" 300 lb beasts. Learn to lurk best thing I can offer. [/quote]

This USED to be a bodybuilding site that made money on the side, they redesigned the whole front page on the premise of selling supplements being their primary goal. I would think it’s hard to sell a product if people are so bombarded by variation they avoid buying anything. I could be wrong since i’m not a marketing wiz but it would seem that way.

Yes you went to school to learn nursing but did they try to teach you how to listen for breathing abnormalities the first day? I don’t know if your a computer science person but my intent is something similar to a “Hello World” for bodybuilding. That’s basically something simple anybody can do where if they do it they have what it takes to at least make a decision on if they want to go farther.[/quote]

I don’t disagree with what you are saying. I just put myself in the position of the guys running this business. Who is going to make you more money. The newbe or the guy with experience. Yes this site is free, the articles are free, the forums are free. They are at least not trying to sell shit products and make promises of performance greater than what God gave us.

Anything in life that is worth anything takes dedication and hard work. Again this site if not for beginners, thats mens health.
And you are correct when I went to school I didn’t do everything on the first day. I put in 14 years of college to now call myself a Masters prepared Nurse. That same dedication is what it takes to be an experienced lifter. So that was my point I didnt start at the end, I started at the begining.

16

[quote]Sharp4850 wrote:

[quote]Airtruth wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Airtruth wrote:

HOLY SHIT I WAS LOST.
[/quote]

.[/quote]

I’m not normally this cheesy but I don’t think you give people enough credit.
[/quote]

The thing about basic programming is that there is no one perfect program for everybody. And making a blanket program to try an fit everybody’s needs will result in alot of people not making progress. Squats and milk isn’t for everyone.
If T-Nation had one of these generic “on size fits all” programs on the front page, and then a bunch of beginners started doing it and made no progress, it would make T-Nation look bad. Better they just let the individual sub-forums run their course and present multiple techniques. [/quote]

It would make them look bad to who though? I mean in all honesty nearly all the authors have had numerous fans, and non-believers everything is debated. At the end of the day all of us come back and have several thousand post so for all the pessimism that goes on something is done right to keep lifters here.

There’s no blanket program for everybodies needs, but there are basic things people are looking for.

  1. Get big.
  2. Lose Weight/fat.
    Most magazines have this, and yes people here bitch about Mens Health but what don’t they bitch about? and when you look closely many of the same authors on here write the routines for them.

I just think we can avoid what sam_sneed said he saw when he first came to this site.

17

I think the OP has a good point. Having a Link that said “Need a routine? Click Here!” probably couldnt hurt to get people started (without hurting their personal fable by calling them beginners). You could even switch the program every 2 months or so and the kiddies could all share experiences as they do the same workouts like crossfit! Everyone has to start somewhere, and directing them to ABBH 1 is way better than leaving them to the squat rack to curl on their own.

Say what you want about dedication, dropoff rates, etc but the top end info on this site is top notch already and probably the best marginal benefit to the most people and the sites bottom line would be getting beginners (the great majority of visitors here) up and running and on the way t become greatful, loyal T-Nationers who buy shit here when they need shit.

I love the site because I am an info junkie, but I know I am no where near the norm in that capacity. Not everyone is going to read 9 years of articles in 3 weeks the way I did haha.

18

[quote]Airtruth wrote:

[quote]Sharp4850 wrote:

[quote]Airtruth wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Airtruth wrote:

HOLY SHIT I WAS LOST.
[/quote]

.[/quote]

I’m not normally this cheesy but I don’t think you give people enough credit.
[/quote]

The thing about basic programming is that there is no one perfect program for everybody. And making a blanket program to try an fit everybody’s needs will result in alot of people not making progress. Squats and milk isn’t for everyone.
If T-Nation had one of these generic “on size fits all” programs on the front page, and then a bunch of beginners started doing it and made no progress, it would make T-Nation look bad. Better they just let the individual sub-forums run their course and present multiple techniques. [/quote]

It would make them look bad to who though? I mean in all honesty nearly all the authors have had numerous fans, and non-believers everything is debated. At the end of the day all of us come back and have several thousand post so for all the pessimism that goes on something is done right to keep lifters here.

There’s no blanket program for everybodies needs, but there are basic things people are looking for.

  1. Get big.
  2. Lose Weight/fat.
    Most magazines have this, and yes people here bitch about Mens Health but what don’t they bitch about? and when you look closely many of the same authors on here write the routines for them.

I just think we can avoid what sam_sneed said he saw when he first came to this site. [/quote]

Have you been paying attention? Most of these people hear “focus on a goal, either work on size or work on dieting”…and they then start crying about being able to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time…then they start crying because they haven’t gained any weight in 5 years because they were focused on keeping 8% body fat.

You can’t GIVE someone a goal. You can’t GIVE someone will power…and you sure as hell can’t GIVE them common sense.

These people want everything RIGHT NOW. They don’t want to put in 5-7 years working on size. They want big muscles and zero body fat yesterday…so they spend YEARS looking for ways to avoid the hard work…only to end up years later looking like a newbie when they could have spent that time packing on 50lbs.

These people don’t want the basics. They want to log on and instantly be told how to look like a cover model in 10 weeks or less.

People like that don’t even deserve to be hand held…and sadly, they wouldn’t listen anyway because they think they are above things like that. And let’s face it, if you aren’t making this seem mad complicated, they don’t think it works.

Also, I would go as far as to say 80% of the people giving advice on the forums shouldn’t be. That would clear up quite a bit right there if people were simply required to have a picture posted somewhere at least showing they fucking work out.

19

[quote]milktruck wrote:
I think the OP has a good point. Having a Link that said “Need a routine? Click Here!” probably couldnt hurt to get people started (without hurting their personal fable by calling them beginners). You could even switch the program every 2 months or so and the kiddies could all share experiences as they do the same workouts like crossfit! Everyone has to start somewhere, and directing them to ABBH 1 is way better than leaving them to the squat rack to curl on their own.
[/quote]

LOL. Most of these people act like they can only train 2 or 3 days week. You don’t hand out blind routines to follow without knowing the GOALS of the individual and their work ethic.

Since when has this site attracted hardcore gym rats in the last 5 years or so?

Most of these guys apparently just want abs on their 150lbs frames…so what routine should be given?

20

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]milktruck wrote:
I think the OP has a good point. Having a Link that said “Need a routine? Click Here!” probably couldnt hurt to get people started (without hurting their personal fable by calling them beginners). You could even switch the program every 2 months or so and the kiddies could all share experiences as they do the same workouts like crossfit! Everyone has to start somewhere, and directing them to ABBH 1 is way better than leaving them to the squat rack to curl on their own.
[/quote]

LOL. Most of these people act like they can only train 2 or 3 days week. You don’t hand out blind routines to follow without knowing the GOALS of the individual and their work ethic.

Since when has this site attracted hardcore gym rats in the last 5 years or so?

Most of these guys apparently just want abs on their 150lbs frames…so what routine should be given?[/quote]

Beginners? In the bodybuilding forum there are no beginners everyone in there asking questions have been training for at least 8 months. And if I were to guess most of them are between the age of 16 and 21. When I think back to when I was that age i can remember how I knew everything and any advice given to me pretty much fell on deaf ears regardless of the advice given. The people that are dedicated will find the necessary information the ones that aren’t will most likely keep asking the same questions and getting the answers they don’t want to hear.