Sugar, Fats and Supplements for "Hardgainer"

Nutrition
1

Hi all. I would describe myself as a hard gainer, although there seems to be a consensus around here that this just means under eater. I am willing to gladly accept that and I am looking for ways to best find ways to consume more calories for bulking.

Some background about myself. I am 30 yo, 5’11. I started lifting around 2 years ago 4 times a week, mostly doing the 5 “big lifts” and throw in some targeted isolation exercises for arms etc. started at around 149lbs and now I’m at 164lbs with around 11% bf.
I’ve been stuck at that level for about 6 months now.

Naturally, I assumed it must be an issue with diet. According to a calculator on bodybuilding .com I need 2750 calories per day to build muscle. I have been trying to target 3000 calories per day, but just have not been able to get past 164lbs.

Now here’s my problem. I never had a big appetite and I am very selective in the kinds of foods whose taste I find acceptable. I love meat and have no problem getting enough protein from solid food. However, complex carbs are hard for me to eat. I relied on weight gainers like serious mass to supplement that deficiency, consuming up to 1800 calories a day using these alone but didn’t really gain any weight as a result. I also consume a fair amount of sugary drinks (soda, juice, etc). I don’t use any other supplements except 5g of creatine daily.

So here are some concrete questions:

1- Most advice I found in many articles revolve around getting enough macro/micro nutrients as well as enough calories. Yet, most warn against using sugar and simple carbs as they are “empty calories”. If I am getting enough protein daily, what is the harm of making up the difference using simple carbs/sugar? I do not seem to have a tendency of gaining fat.

2- Similarly, would getting calories from fatty and “junk” food be counter-productive? Why?

3- Is there an advantage of solid food vs. weight gainer shakes that supposedly have high quality nutrients? If yes, why?

4- Are 3000 calories per day not enough in my case?

I apologize if the answers to these questions are well known. I tried my best to find answers but couldn’t to my satisfaction. Help truly appreciated.

Cheers

2

1800 calories from weight gainer??? So you eat 1200 from solid food? That’s just nothing. And how much calories from sodas? You will have to force yourself to eat more. I know it’s hard and you want to puke but 1200 is nothing. Try more meals then. I think I’m a small eater but around maintenance is 2500 cal only from solid food for me…

3

I’ll write a more in detail post later if you like, but to answer this: if you’re not gaining scale weight (or the rate of gain is too slow for your liking), then yes, it doesn’t matter how many calories you’re eating—they’re not enough.

4

Hi aldebaran.I should clarify that I get around 1000-1200 from the gainer, but even upping it to 1800 did not really help much. I am still curious what difference does it make if I get the calories from the gainer or solid food as per my 3rd question. calories from soda and juice can easily add 300-400 per day.

5

Thanks samul. Would certainly appreciate a detailed post. It makes sense that 3000 is not enough since I am not gaining weight at that level, but I guess I’m trying to find out if it’s not just the number of calories itself but also whether the composition and sources are the bigger issues.

6

The point about empty calories is being made for foods that are devoid of micronutrients in spite of providing food energy (calories). An example is pure table sugar: it provides 400 calories per 100 g but nothing else.

Consuming “empty calories” foods is usually advised against with in mind the fact that most of those foods are usually associated with a poor nutrition and lifestyle to begin with. It’s generally hard to find a person who eats lots of junk food but is also conscious of getting in micronutrients and protein. If one has made sure to get in all the good stuff from veggies and the like, I don’t see a problem with consuming some food that isn’t traditionally regarded to as “clean.”

Two exceptions to this:

  1. Trans fast: nobody has business eating them, as they only do harm to the body
  2. Excessive fructose: this tends to top liver’s glycogen storages, which in turn makes them into tryglicerids. Don’t underestimate this: fructose is admittedly one of the main causes of obesity and should be limited, especially when in a caloric surplus.

This point is important, because you say you consume quite a bit of sugary drinks. I’ll be honest here—I can’t think of a worse carb source than those. Replace them with the sugar free versions if you really like them and get your carbs from elsewhere.

Well if your main goal is putting on mass, and admittedly you are having difficulties hitting the calorie target, I’d say go for it, AS LONG AS you make a point to work on your nutritional habits in the meantime. That is, hit your calorie target with good quality protein, eat your vegetables, fruits, and get in the micros, then add calories via “not so healthy” food, BUT work on screwing the ratio more in favor of “good” foods over time.

I eat lots of white rice to gain weight. Don’t like it? Try pasta, bread, beans, whatever. Like liquid foods? Drink more milk. It has protein, fats, and lots of micros. Invest in your workout nutrition if you haven’t. Just work on ingraining solid habits and shift more towards whole foods.

I know it’s easier to just drink a shake, but if it were meant to be easy, everyone would do it.

Mainly micro nutrients, but we’re told by smarter guys to eat whole foods also because they might contain compounds crucial for health that science hasn’t looked into yet and hence aren’t being included in supplements.

Anyway, here’s my suggestion:
Read Dan John. He advocates leaning out, then going all out for 4-6 weeks to gain weight, then momentarily working on another quality.

Do this: you can skip the leaning out if you want, but for 6 weeks try and hit your caloric goal. Eat enough calories to gain about 1-1.5 lbs a week. Initially eat junk food if you need to, but try each week to consume the same calories and macros, but with less junk food and more whole food. The goal is to get to week 6 eating only whole food (or 90% of the time being the lower limit) but still getting in the same calories as week 1. Let us know!

7

On appetite, mine has always been correlated with exertion.

Increasing frequency of eating can help to get more calories in too. You can hit 5k per day easily by eating 6 or 7 times per day. Mind you, not sitting down to a formal meal, but eating on your feet- like a bowl of chicken and rice and a banana between breakfast and lunch and some jerky with pineapple chunks between lunch and dinner, etc.

It takes a little getting used to, but not much if your exertion level is high.