Sub Q vs IM Daily?

Maybe you are not shooting in the right place in the gluts. Half inch works just fine. SubQ I felt likt systemlord. I was just off. Hard to put into words but IM is much better and I’ve been doing IM for about 17 months or so.

I couldn’t habdle SubQ doing EOD as well for more then 2 weeks. Felt like a crackhead and absolutely horrible. Happy days to those that do it and it works. I know 2 weeks is noting but feeling such huge decline from starting I just hung the gloves and went to E5D that sorted me out in a couple of days.

Sub Q had less efficacy on me, I don’t think it changed my ratio of conversion from test to E2, but both levels dropped mg per mg of test.

I think I need more than 1/2 inch for glutes personally. Deltoids seem fine though

Same here, subq suck srs balls, these damn nerds always refer to their small sample non peer reviewed studies arguing subQ is great.

Made me try it, felt total shit and t levels fell hardcore. Checked on forums and saw tons and tons of anecdotes with the same result.

IM for the win, subq can go to hell.

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Going on SQ starting out on TRT will lead to treatment failure more often than not. For someone wanting quick symptom relief, more often it’s a ticket to prolonged suffering.

Taking into account all of the above posts against subq injections, does anyone actually have any explanation why IM is superior to subq other than the absorption rate of subq is slower but it is still absorbed nonetheless? I’m seriously interested.

I can speculate, if you’re over a certain percentage of body fat, IM will typically be the better option. The higher inflammation may make absorption less than ideal and may actually lead to symptoms.

I find Jatenzo, oral testosterone undecanoate is absorbed with more consistency and very accurate prediction of hormone levels than with IM over the long term.

Just my take, but for me, both work fine.

I am 18% BF so YMMV.

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This study shows subq is superior: Comparison of Outcomes for Hypogonadal Men Treated with Intramuscular Testosterone Cypionate versus Subcutaneous Testosterone Enanthate - PubMed

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Appreciate the post, but in my experience, studies are studies. you have to figure it out for yourself. Studies and literature are helpful, but ultimately, it comes down to how you react.

I started TRT almost ten years ago at a men’s clinic - blood tests, go in weekly to get a shot, take Arimidex. Ultimately tried HCG as well. E2 got screwed up, roller coaster, etc…

Went to a PCP internal doc who wrote me a script and self administered, blood test every twelve weeks, dropped the Adex and HCG (already had kids, was fifty years old). I moved, bought UGL online and self administered. Tried subq for years successfully, just went back to IM.

When I started, like most, I was obsessed with my numbers and “dialing in my protocol.” Tried E3D, went from 100mg a week to 150mg a week, blasted at 400mg, yadda yadda yadda.

After I got my Test levels stabilized, I figured out most of my mental health issues (depression, anxiety, lethargy, anhedonia) were alcohol and, mainly, just fucked up mental health due to childhood trauma.

Done a lot of CBT, DBT, IFS, yoga, meditation, and other shit and am good now. None of it has to do with IM or SubQ, frequency, Adex, or HCG. I shoot 150mg weekly. Whether it is subq or IM doesn’t matter.

But, that’s me.

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So… Here’s my 2 cents. I’ve been on TRT for 17 weeks.
The first 12 weeks were 70mg (140mg Total) Test cyp x2 per week sub Q.
First 12 weeks were a roller coaster of sides. But, some good came out of it as well as far as symptom resolution. After my first bloods Doctor wanted to raise the dose in order to raise my free T numbers.
Raised dose to 160mg per week using the same frequency.
HOWEVER, I then switched to IM and have been a new man ever since. Unless my next follow up bloods show that something is amiss.
I’ll never go back to Sub Q.

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Yes I heard many have the same experience.

In the end it’s trial and error.

@Rallee24
I’m not going to try and convince you which is better or worse even though in a forum my opinion is what youre asking for. There are lots of papers, forums and articles stating the good and bad in both methods so if youre after facts not random peoples opinions I’m sure youll have no problem finding info then working out what works best for you.

I will mention the fact that when you inject sq compared to im the AUC is very similar, any of the frequent fliers who have chipped in should be able to confirm this, especially if theyre had blood work done (if they haven’t had bloods done they should know because of, you know. Reading).

AUC means the total amount of the drug used over the same amount of time by the body (roughly), so if you take 100mg im, your body over a week will use around the same amount as if you injected sq. To show this you cant just do one or two blood draws a week, you need to do (potentially) 2 a day for weeks, probably less but thats how science works. By checking shit not by feels.
If you just check once or twice your levels may be higher on im or higher for sq (trough) but over the week the levels will be around the same.

Got some time on your hands?

Some people say they feel very different on one or the other, do I believe them?
Doesn’t matter what I think, as long as it works for them

As a former academic, I am embarrassed to admit that most of my research these days is done on TikTok.

Okay, it’s not really research, it’s just mindless scrolling, checking my views, and getting random naked pictures from young women that want me to pay for their gas to drive across the country to have sex with me.

TMI?

Anyway, a TRT doc posted a Tok that says the normal range is for normal people. For those on TRT, you should be supraphysiological.

I am sure @BrickHead would be interested in this topic.

I will continue to scroll . . .er, I mean, do research and when I see it again, I will post the information.

For me, I typically test around 650 prior to my next shot on 140mg a week. But, I feel like I now have an Rx to bump, lol.

When first started, started SQ. Made sense to me, why would I wanna pin my muscles till the day I die when I can inject SQ. Never had a single problem, felt dialed in from the beginning even with Hcg from the get go (“which I shouldn’t have done according to online advice”), feels like honeymoon period never stopped. I see no reason and I will probably never ever trt im.

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I know people will say “explain to me how there could be a difference in efficacy from a pharmacokinetic standpoint”, and the truth is that I can’t. But…first of all, you could’ve said those exact words to the greatest experts in any field at different times in history and completely stumped them. It doesn’t mean it’s a good argument; there are plenty of things we don’t have the models to explain that are still true.

Secondly, when I started TRT I did subQ and got my numbers really high, it was working great. I felt like shit but I felt like shit on IM at the time also, personally I didn’t feel much of a difference; if anything my numbers were higher doing subQ.

A year ago or so I tried subQ again and gave it an actual 8 weeks before doing labs, on daily injections of 15mg (daily injections matter because it means there’s almost no difference between peak and trough levels, so that wouldn’t explain the results).

My Free T came back at 7ng/dL all the way at the bottom of the range, what it was pre-TRT. This is using pharma Pfizer Depo-Testosterone. I’m actually about to send the Pfizer Test to Janoshik just in case, but it’s mostly for peace of mind because it’s obviously extremely unlikely Pfizer Test would be that underdosed.

For the record, shallow IM in delts of 15mg/day gets me close to the top of the range. Also, I was using equilibrium dialysis measurement for the Free T lab, so that’s not the issue. And finally, I could tell something was off because I was dropping strength really fast in the gym and wasn’t bloated at all anymore, which sadly is what made me the most suspicious, so I know it’s not a lab error either.

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This is really helpful. I pin 130 mg 2x week, but feel best the day before pinning, so am curious about a lower level being better. I do subq.

Levels have been steady at 900 ~1100 for the past year. Test cypionate and arimidex. I’m due for my next set of labs and and am trying to do a walkin blood draw on a day I feel good to identify a goal point.

I’m fucking sick of being accused of looking angry for no damn reason. Maybe this is the cause.

“A doctor on tik-tok said you should be supraphysiological” Good Grief, because every natty is? I would never go to a doctor that talks like that.

A couple of questions - first, Arimidex is fucking evil. How much are you taking?

Second, are you 130mg twice a week for a total of 260mg? Or are you 130mg divided into two shots?

At 900-1100, when are your bloods drawn? Prior to your next shot?

What is your E2?

I think this is very important.

I would personally never do daily. I got tired of Subq - for me it is more painful than jabbing a glute. The most painful thing about shooting IM in my ass is a get a cramp sometimes from giving myself a reach around.

My source, some genius on TikTok, says if you are on exogenous test, higher is better.

I think your E2 is your issue, caused by the Adex.