Hungry4More would be a good example
[quote]yusef wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Youre a little twat.
[/quote]
Are you like this in real life?[/quote]
We can only hope…
jonny142, I understand you needed to get over that emotional barrier, which should have happened by now. At least you will not be affraid of gaining now.
Just don’t sell yourself short and try to really lean bulk - remember, energy needs are variable, it doesn’t just stay the same, you can’t be as accurate as to the last 300 cals (better to over-estimate a little).
Like PX was saying, you don’t suddenly need to majorly change your strategy - whether you just want 30lb+ or 80lbs+, you still have to over-feed enough - the difference is the “stopping point”, not how much you eat in the short term. Granted, there is around two levels of gaining (heavy/steady), but for the average Joe, trying to get the exact amount of calories for the perfect bulk just aint gonna happen.
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
At least you will not be affraid of gaining now.[/quote]
I disagree with this. To me this whole thread about ‘stubborn fat’ (which doesnt actually exist), screams that he would need to massively change his attitude if he is to get big. I still think his attitude is very ‘scared to blur his abs’ for want of a better term.
I can see him starting a bulk and bailing on it at the first sign of even the slightest fat gain.
Just my opinion.
EDIT: What are your thoughts Jonny?
I’ve never really gone for a “bulk” so to speak, I felt I couldn’t justify it before, perhaps wrongly, because I was already fat. I don’t think i’m afraid of gaining fat, I am afraid that if i go about it the wrong way I’ll end up back where I was (100kg at 20%)
[quote]jonny142 wrote:
I am afraid that if i go about it the wrong way I’ll end up back where I was (100kg at 20%)[/quote]
This will not happen unless you are really stupid.
You could ramp up your calories above maintenance untill you find an ammount you are gaining weight at and getting stronger at (in your case i’d throw myself at +500cals as a starting point). If you aren’t gaining weight increase your calories. If you are gaining TOO MUCH FAT then lower your calories or cut some carbs- but dont make this a darastic change like suddenly cutting off 1000cals, it should be a small change- think damage control rather than diet.
If you are gaining alot of weight, say more muscle than people say you can gain in a week, ignore that shit unless you are looking or feeling TOO FAT, don’t let other peoples limitations hold you back.
[quote]Shontayne wrote:
[quote]jonny142 wrote:
I am afraid that if i go about it the wrong way I’ll end up back where I was (100kg at 20%)[/quote]
This will not happen unless you are really stupid.
You could ramp up your calories above maintenance untill you find an ammount you are gaining weight at and getting stronger at (in your case i’d throw myself at +500cals as a starting point). If you aren’t gaining weight increase your calories. If you are gaining TOO MUCH FAT then lower your calories or cut some carbs- but dont make this a darastic change like suddenly cutting off 1000cals, it should be a small change- think damage control rather than diet.
If you are gaining alot of weight, say more muscle than people say you can gain in a week, ignore that shit unless you are looking or feeling TOO FAT, don’t let other peoples limitations hold you back.[/quote]
Now mind you, because I could see this from a mile away from the start, that makes me the bad guy.
This fucker has yelped and complained for two pages now because it was clear as day he had a massive fear of any fat gain and that it would hold him back.
The people here are ridiculous.
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
leroy really let his friends down and paid no attention to the plan of action .we can all learn from leroy’s mistakes and apply that new knowledge to our training and daily life.
[quote]jonny142 wrote:
Hungry4More would be a good example[/quote]
…and if you think you will look like him by NOT doing what I wrote so far, then you really are clueless. That guy is MILES ahead of you and it will take the same hard work to reach that as it will to get bigger than that.
Let’s see, this has been written several times over in this thread yet you still keep complaining…because clearly the guy who gained more muscle doesn’t know what he is talking about.
[quote]Shontayne wrote:
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
At least you will not be affraid of gaining now.[/quote]
I disagree with this. To me this whole thread about ‘stubborn fat’ (which doesnt actually exist), screams that he would need to massively change his attitude if he is to get big. I still think his attitude is very ‘scared to blur his abs’ for want of a better term.
I can see him starting a bulk and bailing on it at the first sign of even the slightest fat gain.
Just my opinion.
EDIT: What are your thoughts Jonny?[/quote]
If you’ve leaned out (travelled the road, got the t-shirt) it usually takes the fear factor out of gaining fat somewhat. But I do agree, it could go the other way too (which is why I said not to limit calories).
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
[quote]Shontayne wrote:
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
At least you will not be affraid of gaining now.[/quote]
I disagree with this. To me this whole thread about ‘stubborn fat’ (which doesnt actually exist), screams that he would need to massively change his attitude if he is to get big. I still think his attitude is very ‘scared to blur his abs’ for want of a better term.
I can see him starting a bulk and bailing on it at the first sign of even the slightest fat gain.
Just my opinion.
EDIT: What are your thoughts Jonny?[/quote]
If you’ve leaned out (travelled the road, got the t-shirt) it usually takes the fear factor out of gaining fat somewhat. But I do agree, it could go the other way too (which is why I said not to limit calories).[/quote]
The problem is he had got lean (fair enough)… and then continued to do so much further than necessary, while still thinking he was carrying stuborn bodyfat!
I actually just had a quick read of his log, and this backs up what i’ve just said and also Prof X has been saying for the past few days.
“I went from 220lbs @~20% bodyfat 180lbs @~9%.”- OPs opening comment on his log. To me after dropping 40lbs and 11% BF to 9% this would definitely mean the end of my cut.
However, OP says: “I plan to keep cutting until the end of the year”. WTF why? what did you hope to achieve?
Then later on, baring in mind he is at most 9% BF he states he is at a ‘1171 calorie deficit’ per day along with the introduction of FASTING DAYS!
- After seeing this, do you still think he has lost the fat fear factor?
[quote]Shontayne wrote:
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
[quote]Shontayne wrote:
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
At least you will not be affraid of gaining now.[/quote]
I disagree with this. To me this whole thread about ‘stubborn fat’ (which doesnt actually exist), screams that he would need to massively change his attitude if he is to get big. I still think his attitude is very ‘scared to blur his abs’ for want of a better term.
I can see him starting a bulk and bailing on it at the first sign of even the slightest fat gain.
Just my opinion.
EDIT: What are your thoughts Jonny?[/quote]
If you’ve leaned out (travelled the road, got the t-shirt) it usually takes the fear factor out of gaining fat somewhat. But I do agree, it could go the other way too (which is why I said not to limit calories).[/quote]
The problem is he had got lean (fair enough)… and then continued to do so much further than necessary, while still thinking he was carrying stuborn bodyfat!
I actually just had a quick read of his log, and this backs up what i’ve just said and also Prof X has been saying for the past few days.
“I went from 220lbs @~20% bodyfat 180lbs @~9%.”- OPs opening comment on his log. To me after dropping 40lbs and 11% BF to 9% this would definitely mean the end of my cut.
However, OP says: “I plan to keep cutting until the end of the year”. WTF why? what did you hope to achieve?
Then later on, baring in mind he is at most 9% BF he states he is at a ‘1171 calorie deficit’ per day along with the introduction of FASTING DAYS!
- After seeing this, do you still think he has lost the fat fear factor?
[/quote]
That’s why most here should not be giving advice. People without the experience miss shit like that. It jumps out plain as day to people who have already been down that road.
Mind you, they are literally fighting me for saying the same exact shit and for figuring it out pages ago.
These people don’t want help. They want someone to simply tell them that what they are doing is good even if they don’t make progress.
These are not fighters or leaders. They are just average guys on the internet fighting against anyone else who stands out.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Shontayne wrote:
[quote]jonny142 wrote:
I am afraid that if i go about it the wrong way I’ll end up back where I was (100kg at 20%)[/quote]
This will not happen unless you are really stupid.
You could ramp up your calories above maintenance untill you find an ammount you are gaining weight at and getting stronger at (in your case i’d throw myself at +500cals as a starting point). If you aren’t gaining weight increase your calories. If you are gaining TOO MUCH FAT then lower your calories or cut some carbs- but dont make this a darastic change like suddenly cutting off 1000cals, it should be a small change- think damage control rather than diet.
If you are gaining alot of weight, say more muscle than people say you can gain in a week, ignore that shit unless you are looking or feeling TOO FAT, don’t let other peoples limitations hold you back.[/quote]
Now mind you, because I could see this from a mile away from the start, that makes me the bad guy.
This fucker has yelped and complained for two pages now because it was clear as day he had a massive fear of any fat gain and that it would hold him back.
The people here are ridiculous.[/quote]
Slightly off track, but I often think people post their pictures looking for compliments and when they receive criticism they react to it as they think they know better and probably think they look pretty good.
HA! posted at the same time, saying the same thing!
I don’t know if your comments about ‘not fighters or leaders’ was directed at me, ProX, but, as Shontayne, I figured OP to be afraid of gaining some fat along with noticeable muscle mass.
So I suggested a course of action that may be suboptimal to humongous size (both fat and muscle) gains, but would still allow him to recover his metabolism, get used to eating above maintenance and to see the benefits derived from this method (lean mass increase, faster metabolism).
After experiencing said benefits in such a phase, any somewhat sane person who wanted to look like H4M would feel more inclined to up the calories some more after that.
And yeah, I’ve been fat, once, too and while I’ve never been as lean as OP, I know what it means to be afraid of da cals, especially da carbs. Happened to me, once, too. Got over it, too.
And for the record, OP: 100 kg / 20 % BF is not fat by any standard (excluding BB contest BF levels).
Not even chubby. It’s more or less within OK-ish bounds.
[quote]FattyFat wrote:
I don’t know if your comments about ‘not fighters or leaders’ was directed at me, ProX, but, as Shontayne, I figured OP to be afraid of gaining some fat along with noticeable muscle mass.
So I suggested a course of action that may be suboptimal to humongous size (both fat and muscle) gains, but would still allow him to recover his metabolism, get used to eating above maintenance and to see the benefits derived from this method (lean mass increase, faster metabolism).
After experiencing said benefits in such a phase, any somewhat sane person who wanted to look like H4M would feel more inclined to up the calories some more after that.
And yeah, I’ve been fat, once, too and while I’ve never been as lean as OP, I know what it means to be afraid of da cals, especially da carbs. Happened to me, once, too. Got over it, too.
[/quote]
Dude, if you are in the T-Cell then stop thinking my generalized comments about newbs are about you.
You clearly know what you are talking about. I am just using this as a chance to harp on the same bullshit I see so often here with newbs acting like guys who outweigh them by 100lbs don’t know what they are talking about when it comes to gaining muscle.
[quote]Shontayne wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Shontayne wrote:
[quote]jonny142 wrote:
I am afraid that if i go about it the wrong way I’ll end up back where I was (100kg at 20%)[/quote]
This will not happen unless you are really stupid.
You could ramp up your calories above maintenance untill you find an ammount you are gaining weight at and getting stronger at (in your case i’d throw myself at +500cals as a starting point). If you aren’t gaining weight increase your calories. If you are gaining TOO MUCH FAT then lower your calories or cut some carbs- but dont make this a darastic change like suddenly cutting off 1000cals, it should be a small change- think damage control rather than diet.
If you are gaining alot of weight, say more muscle than people say you can gain in a week, ignore that shit unless you are looking or feeling TOO FAT, don’t let other peoples limitations hold you back.[/quote]
Now mind you, because I could see this from a mile away from the start, that makes me the bad guy.
This fucker has yelped and complained for two pages now because it was clear as day he had a massive fear of any fat gain and that it would hold him back.
The people here are ridiculous.[/quote]
Slightly off track, but I often think people post their pictures looking for compliments and when they receive criticism they react to it as they think they know better and probably think they look pretty good.
[/quote]
That may be the case but this isn’t Getbig. I am not going to praise someone who looks like they need a fucking meal quickly before they pass the fuck out just so they feel good about themselves.
@Shontayne: I agree, I made some stupid decisions and should have stopped cutting earlier. My personality means I pursue goals until I feel I’ve achieved them - to me the results weren’t proportional to my efforts and I wanted to keep going. First proper cut and I’ve learnt my lesson.
Whether or not I can get over the fear of gaining fat is speculation, I honestly don’t know. I guess time will tell. Im don’t agree with the looking for approval comment though. In my first post I guessed I would get torn apart - im just looking for advice.
@ Professor X: I appreciate from your point of view all this is obvious but someone with experience can always speak from hindsight and with objectivity. Its always difficult to accept things contrary to your beliefs, especially when you’re new to something.
All in all, thanks for everyones input
Not to bust your chops, ProX, but you can harp all you want: some people just don’t want (<-- operative word) to get it. And I don’t necessarily mean the OP, by that.
Concerning OP (and people like him), a cautionary tale:
after dropping about 100 lbs of in-contractile body mass I’d been very afraid of getting fat, again. So, what did I do? I curtailed my caloric intake to sub 2000 kcals, avoiding carbs like the pest - for almost 4 years. All the while, I kept on hitting the iron hard, got strong as fuck but didn’t gain much size and fucked my metabolism over.
Maybe I get where you stand, maybe I don’t: doesn’t change the facts, though.
As you’ve said, OP, you’re going to ease into a slightly-above-maintenance diet. In this regard, I think you’d be better off with 500 kcals / day, as Shontayne has already said.
On training days, invest those 500 kcals into your pre- and peri-workout shakes. On non-training days mainly in protein. Although, if you’re already meeting your protein needs excluding those excess 500 kcals, invest those into complex carbs (morning) and good fats (evening).
And bam…500 kcals well invested.
After some time, you might adjust your caloric intake upwards or downwards, depending on where you stand and how you feel (again, I’m just repeating what Shontayne and ProX have already said).
@ FattyFat: Would you recommend same calorie intake everyday ?- I was planning on having a few cheat meals during the week on top of normal intake on more intense training days.