I’ve been following 5/3/1 for the last couple of years and have started adding in first set last (first work set for two sets in my case) and joker sets when possible over the last couple months. The problem I’ve run into though, is that if I push my last set hard (usually hitting +1-2 reps extra), I don’t have enough energy/strength to complete either Jokers or FSL - I’m spent.
It’s been awhile since I’ve reset my training max, but the fact it keeps going up makes me hesitate to drop it down. What do you guys think is more important, keeping that TM high and keep hitting the required reps or dropping it down and being able to utilized jokers and first set last?
If your only hitting 1-2 extra reps on your pr work set your tm is way too high. Get it lowered and get the reps in. I always do 5 sets of fsl after the pr set and hit a joker set or two if its a really good day. Just like the beyond book says you gotta auto regulate
The program does not hinge on Jokers and FSL. They are tools based on autoregulation. Priority #1 is the PR set, and if you still feel good you can do Jokers, FSL, or both.
[quote]irishlifting wrote:
If your only hitting 1-2 extra reps on your pr work set your tm is way too high. Get it lowered and get the reps in. I always do 5 sets of fsl after the pr set and hit a joker set or two if its a really good day. Just like the beyond book says you gotta auto regulate[/quote]
If you’re on your 3+ day and you hit 5 why would you lower your TM? You’r hitting more than the prescribed reps?
Jim says in the book to keep your TM 90% of your actual max. This means you got to be able to hit at least 9, 7 and 5 reps on the 5+, 3+ and 1+ sets. Minimum! And you should be able to do a Joker of 110% at least once in a cycle. If you can’t your TM is too high IMO. There is no shame in a reset. Some do it after every fifth cycle.
[quote]irishlifting wrote:
If your only hitting 1-2 extra reps on your pr work set your tm is way too high. Get it lowered and get the reps in. I always do 5 sets of fsl after the pr set and hit a joker set or two if its a really good day. Just like the beyond book says you gotta auto regulate[/quote]
If you’re on your 3+ day and you hit 5 why would you lower your TM? You’r hitting more than the prescribed reps? [/quote]
The only way I would say your TM is to high is if your hardly getting more then the prescribed reps for the first cycle or 2 but otherwise I agree. And to the OP maybe rest a few minutes after your PR set before you hit your FSL or Jokers.
[quote]Willem85 wrote:
Jim says in the book to keep your TM 90% of your actual max. This means you got to be able to hit at least 9, 7 and 5 reps on the 5+, 3+ and 1+ sets. Minimum! And you should be able to do a Joker of 110% at least once in a cycle. If you can’t your TM is too high IMO. There is no shame in a reset. Some do it after every fifth cycle.[/quote]
Do you remember where in the beyond he says this? I don’t remember reading it.
[quote]irishlifting wrote:
If your only hitting 1-2 extra reps on your pr work set your tm is way too high. Get it lowered and get the reps in. I always do 5 sets of fsl after the pr set and hit a joker set or two if its a really good day. Just like the beyond book says you gotta auto regulate[/quote]
If you’re on your 3+ day and you hit 5 why would you lower your TM? You’r hitting more than the prescribed reps? [/quote]
The only way I would say your TM is to high is if your hardly getting more then the prescribed reps for the first cycle or 2 but otherwise I agree. And to the OP maybe rest a few minutes after your PR set before you hit your FSL or Jokers.[/quote]
[quote]Willem85 wrote:
Jim says in the book to keep your TM 90% of your actual max. This means you got to be able to hit at least 9, 7 and 5 reps on the 5+, 3+ and 1+ sets. Minimum! And you should be able to do a Joker of 110% at least once in a cycle. If you can’t your TM is too high IMO. There is no shame in a reset. Some do it after every fifth cycle.[/quote]
Do you remember where in the beyond he says this? I don’t remember reading it.[/quote]
On page 33, it says "you may want to cap your last set at 10, 8 , or 5 reps ( or whatever you feel is best for you) Doesn’t really mean you should be able to get 9,7, and 5 it may say that in the book but I’m not going to read through the whole book right now to see if it does. But back to the OP if you have the book you should read that page it will answer your question on fatigue. And if you don’t have the book its worth the $20.
Shit - lots of replies in there. I figured a “stall” would be when I failed to hit the required reps for the heart of the program - the required work sets. The jokers and FSL appeared to be supplementary to me. Sort of like when you drop your TM you can up the volume (FSL and Jokers) but as you go up in intensity, you need to bleed off some volume. Currently on my I’m hitting 1-2 extras regardless of the week (note that the 5’s week is BY FAR the hardest for me).
I planned to reset when I failed to hit the required reps on the main work sets. I do not currently rest very much after my all out last work set - I saw the FSL as a bodybuilding type of movement, ie, lower rest periods. FWIW, I haven’t reset my squat in like 7 cycles, bench in 8 or so, deadlift, I just reset after something like 10 cycles of hitting the reps each time.
*edit: I do have the book - I’ll read up on the fatigue tonight after deadlifts
[quote]Willem85 wrote:
Jim says in the book to keep your TM 90% of your actual max. This means you got to be able to hit at least 9, 7 and 5 reps on the 5+, 3+ and 1+ sets. Minimum! And you should be able to do a Joker of 110% at least once in a cycle. If you can’t your TM is too high IMO. There is no shame in a reset. Some do it after every fifth cycle.[/quote]
Do you remember where in the beyond he says this? I don’t remember reading it.[/quote]
On page 33, it says "you may want to cap your last set at 10, 8 , or 5 reps ( or whatever you feel is best for you) Doesn’t really mean you should be able to get 9,7, and 5 it may say that in the book but I’m not going to read through the whole book right now to see if it does. [/quote]
[quote]95whtgst wrote:
Shit - lots of replies in there. I figured a “stall” would be when I failed to hit the required reps for the heart of the program - the required work sets. The jokers and FSL appeared to be supplementary to me. Sort of like when you drop your TM you can up the volume (FSL and Jokers) but as you go up in intensity, you need to bleed off some volume. Currently on my I’m hitting 1-2 extras regardless of the week (note that the 5’s week is BY FAR the hardest for me).
I planned to reset when I failed to hit the required reps on the main work sets. I do not currently rest very much after my all out last work set - I saw the FSL as a bodybuilding type of movement, ie, lower rest periods. FWIW, I haven’t reset my squat in like 7 cycles, bench in 8 or so, deadlift, I just reset after something like 10 cycles of hitting the reps each time.
*edit: I do have the book - I’ll read up on the fatigue tonight after deadlifts[/quote]
How many cycles have you done?
Edit:
You know you are supposed to go back 3 TMs after every 5 cycles right?
[quote]Willem85 wrote:
Jim says in the book to keep your TM 90% of your actual max. This means you got to be able to hit at least 9, 7 and 5 reps on the 5+, 3+ and 1+ sets. Minimum! And you should be able to do a Joker of 110% at least once in a cycle. If you can’t your TM is too high IMO. There is no shame in a reset. Some do it after every fifth cycle.[/quote]
Do you remember where in the beyond he says this? I don’t remember reading it.[/quote]
Page 7. Last paragraph of “the importance of the TM”.
I don’t have the book in front of me, but in the Joker section it also mentions that if you struggle to recover after going balls out on the PR set you can consider adding in 5-10 minute rests before doing your Jokers. Not something that appeals to me, but an option.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
You know you are supposed to go back 3 TMs after every 5 cycles right?[/quote]
[quote]95whtgst wrote:
Always thought that was a suggestion, not a requirement haha.[/quote]
You are correct, it’s a recent recommendation that’s not in the books.
[quote]Willem85 wrote:
Jim says in the book to keep your TM 90% of your actual max. [/quote]
No, he says TRAIN to keep your TM at 90%, meaning push hard, eat well, and recover so you can get stronger as you increase the TM.
[quote]irishlifting wrote:
If your only hitting 1-2 extra reps on your pr work set your tm is way too high. Get it lowered and get the reps in. I always do 5 sets of fsl after the pr set and hit a joker set or two if its a really good day. Just like the beyond book says you gotta auto regulate[/quote]
If you’re on your 3+ day and you hit 5 why would you lower your TM? You’r hitting more than the prescribed reps? [/quote]
Don’t “HAVE” to but the 3 week is 90% of TM, which is 90% of supposed real 1rm, or 80%. One should be able to do more than 5 reps IF their 1rms are what they say they are. One should typically be able to do 80% of 1rm 8ish times. now, several cycles in, one adds 10# / 5# to their TM’s each cycle, their 1rms their TM’s can be close to or even exceed starting point 1rm’s. This is where the 5 steps forward / 3 steps back premise really shines.
[quote]irishlifting wrote:
If your only hitting 1-2 extra reps on your pr work set your tm is way too high. Get it lowered and get the reps in. I always do 5 sets of fsl after the pr set and hit a joker set or two if its a really good day. Just like the beyond book says you gotta auto regulate[/quote]
If you’re on your 3+ day and you hit 5 why would you lower your TM? You’r hitting more than the prescribed reps? [/quote]
Well if you are pushing your work set hard on a 3 week and only get 5, then how would the op continue to work joker sets into his programming. Start too light as per every 5/3/1 book written
[quote]Willem85 wrote:
Jim says in the book to keep your TM 90% of your actual max. This means you got to be able to hit at least 9, 7 and 5 reps on the 5+, 3+ and 1+ sets. Minimum! And you should be able to do a Joker of 110% at least once in a cycle. If you can’t your TM is too high IMO. There is no shame in a reset. Some do it after every fifth cycle.[/quote]
Do you remember where in the beyond he says this? I don’t remember reading it.[/quote]
Page 7. Last paragraph of “the importance of the TM”.[/quote]
That paragraph doesn’t say anything about keeping reps at 9, 7, or 5?
It just says to keep TM about 85%-90% of weight room max to allow for day to day variation.