Strikeforce HW Grand Prix: If This Happens

Training
81

[quote]rundymc wrote:
^I think the criticisms directed at the level of Combat Sambo are warranted. The prominent theory is that Fedor competes in it to raise it’s profile.
Personally I don’t think the Galvao comparison is poignant. BJJ, afterall doesn’t have strikes, and is very different from MMA. Combat Sambo on the other hand, more closely resembles it, though yes, the rules seem very different in both cases.[/quote]

I can see it being a good base for mma, but at some point I think you have to train more mma oriented. And truthfully what do we know about red devil?

On another topic, what the fuck happened to Andrei. He was rebounding well after the Sylvia losses, he beat Werdum, Rothwell, Roy Nelson and then boom, 3 KO’s in his last 4 fights.

82

Arlovski is really a though case. If you get knocked out you should take a lay off do something different. I mean train other styles get a win in a grappling match or so …

I think he neglected the fact that a knock out can stay in the back of your head longer than it takes you to recover physical. He jumped right into the mix chose though competion and the situation got worse and worse.

I would be very interested in what his trainers tell him and what they plan on doing from now.

83

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:
… the UFC HW division did not begin prominence until 2010. [/quote]

Nonsense, Mir, Lesnar, Carwin, Velasquez and company were all at or near the top a few years before 2010. And Dana White has been trying to bring Fedor to the UFC for several years. It would have been a great move had it worked. Once again Fedor had his reasons for not moving to the UFC. We perhaps know part of the reason why he didn’t make the move. But unless or until he he reveals all one day we will never really know.[/quote]

no 2010 in 2008 nog and randy were beat and that proved what exactly, still a weak division in 08.[/quote]

Sometimes a poster will post and keep posting just to try to be right. Even though the facts are dead against the poster. You are the “poster boy” for this.

One more time, Mir was the champ in 2008, but Carwin and Velasquez were both undefeated and looking very strong. Lesnar was also looming after his loss to Mir, but of course later in mid 09’ he defeated Mir. There are four fighters who Fedor could have been matched up against. And Dana White tried and failed to bring Fedor to the UFC.

To say that there was not enough competition in the HW division in 08’ is just wrong. Those are the facts twist them around any way you like they’re still the facts.

84

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:
… the UFC HW division did not begin prominence until 2010. [/quote]

Nonsense, Mir, Lesnar, Carwin, Velasquez and company were all at or near the top a few years before 2010. And Dana White has been trying to bring Fedor to the UFC for several years. It would have been a great move had it worked. Once again Fedor had his reasons for not moving to the UFC. We perhaps know part of the reason why he didn’t make the move. But unless or until he he reveals all one day we will never really know.[/quote]

no 2010 in 2008 nog and randy were beat and that proved what exactly, still a weak division in 08.[/quote]

Sometimes a poster will post and keep posting just to try to be right. Even though the facts are dead against the poster. You are the “poster boy” for this.

One more time, Mir was the champ in 2008, but Carwin and Velasquez were both undefeated and looking very strong. Lesnar was also looming after his loss to Mir, but of course later in mid 09’ he defeated Mir. There are four fighters who Fedor could have been matched up against. And Dana White tried and failed to bring Fedor to the UFC.

To say that there was not enough competition in the HW division in 08’ is just wrong. Those are the facts twist them around any way you like they’re still the facts.

[/quote]
Then don’t argue with me Mr. Right, who has been wrong on just about everything. You couldn’t predict a fight to save your life. Mir beat who for the INTERIM title. Hmmm oh yeah Nog, old used Nog who was losing and getting his ass kicked by Heath Herring and Tim Sylvia. And Lesnar beat Randy a smaller wrestler who ALWAYS loses to bigger wrestlers. You’ve proved nothing, now move along now sonny. Again you are speaking of the second time the UFC tried to bring Fedor in. Lets remember Fedor beat two top 5 opponent whether or not they deserved to be is besides the point. The only questionable competition was Rogers and Werdum recently, there was absolutely nothing wrong with the Arlovski and Sylvia fights. Anybody who says Fedor needed to be in the UFC at that time is on the Zuffa Kool-aid. Now either make intelligent arguments or find someone else to argue with, you’re simply outmatched here.

85

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:
… the UFC HW division did not begin prominence until 2010. [/quote]

Nonsense, Mir, Lesnar, Carwin, Velasquez and company were all at or near the top a few years before 2010. And Dana White has been trying to bring Fedor to the UFC for several years. It would have been a great move had it worked. Once again Fedor had his reasons for not moving to the UFC. We perhaps know part of the reason why he didn’t make the move. But unless or until he he reveals all one day we will never really know.[/quote]

no 2010 in 2008 nog and randy were beat and that proved what exactly, still a weak division in 08.[/quote]

Sometimes a poster will post and keep posting just to try to be right. Even though the facts are dead against the poster. You are the “poster boy” for this.

One more time, Mir was the champ in 2008, but Carwin and Velasquez were both undefeated and looking very strong. Lesnar was also looming after his loss to Mir, but of course later in mid 09’ he defeated Mir. There are four fighters who Fedor could have been matched up against. And Dana White tried and failed to bring Fedor to the UFC.

To say that there was not enough competition in the HW division in 08’ is just wrong. Those are the facts twist them around any way you like they’re still the facts.

[/quote]
Then don’t argue with me Mr. Right, who has been wrong on just about everything. You couldn’t predict a fight to save your life. Mir beat who for the INTERIM title. Hmmm oh yeah Nog, old used Nog who was losing and getting his ass kicked by Heath Herring and Tim Sylvia. And Lesnar beat Randy a smaller wrestler who ALWAYS loses to bigger wrestlers. You’ve proved nothing, now move along now sonny. Again you are speaking of the second time the UFC tried to bring Fedor in. Lets remember Fedor beat two top 5 opponent whether or not they deserved to be is besides the point. The only questionable competition was Rogers and Werdum recently, there was absolutely nothing wrong with the Arlovski and Sylvia fights. Anybody who says Fedor needed to be in the UFC at that time is on the Zuffa Kool-aid. Now either make intelligent arguments or find someone else to argue with, you’re simply outmatched here.[/quote]

You’ve not disproven anything that I’ve written. The bottom line is the UFC had a strong HW division in 2008, that is what you were arguing against, did you forget? What you’re saying in essence is that Lesnar, Mir, Carwin, Velesquez and company were just not up to the standards of the Strikeforce HW’s. LOL Now disprove that or admit that you were wrong, or stop posting. I’ll take any of the three.

86

Since we’re saying Arlov and Sylvia were top 10 opponents at the times of their Fedor fights… Brock was top 10 after beating Randy. Mir was top 10. I’m pretty sure Cain was around 09 too. A lot of the guys in the SF tourney now weren’t considered strong a few years ago. There was Arlovski (teardrop), and Barnett (though no one gave him a chance against Fedor). The rest were either still building up their name (Reem, Werdum, Silva), still lowly regarded (Rogers), or fighting scrubs (Sergei).
The UFC HW scene was where it was at after Pride and about a year after Brock came in. I think it’s safe to say that when Brock raped Mir, and when Cain beat Kongo in June '09, that division really started to get exciting. This was around the time the last Fedor negotiations collapsed.

I’m with Zeb on this one.

87

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:
… the UFC HW division did not begin prominence until 2010. [/quote]

Nonsense, Mir, Lesnar, Carwin, Velasquez and company were all at or near the top a few years before 2010. And Dana White has been trying to bring Fedor to the UFC for several years. It would have been a great move had it worked. Once again Fedor had his reasons for not moving to the UFC. We perhaps know part of the reason why he didn’t make the move. But unless or until he he reveals all one day we will never really know.[/quote]

no 2010 in 2008 nog and randy were beat and that proved what exactly, still a weak division in 08.[/quote]

Sometimes a poster will post and keep posting just to try to be right. Even though the facts are dead against the poster. You are the “poster boy” for this.

One more time, Mir was the champ in 2008, but Carwin and Velasquez were both undefeated and looking very strong. Lesnar was also looming after his loss to Mir, but of course later in mid 09’ he defeated Mir. There are four fighters who Fedor could have been matched up against. And Dana White tried and failed to bring Fedor to the UFC.

To say that there was not enough competition in the HW division in 08’ is just wrong. Those are the facts twist them around any way you like they’re still the facts.

[/quote]
Then don’t argue with me Mr. Right, who has been wrong on just about everything. You couldn’t predict a fight to save your life. Mir beat who for the INTERIM title. Hmmm oh yeah Nog, old used Nog who was losing and getting his ass kicked by Heath Herring and Tim Sylvia. And Lesnar beat Randy a smaller wrestler who ALWAYS loses to bigger wrestlers. You’ve proved nothing, now move along now sonny. Again you are speaking of the second time the UFC tried to bring Fedor in. Lets remember Fedor beat two top 5 opponent whether or not they deserved to be is besides the point. The only questionable competition was Rogers and Werdum recently, there was absolutely nothing wrong with the Arlovski and Sylvia fights. Anybody who says Fedor needed to be in the UFC at that time is on the Zuffa Kool-aid. Now either make intelligent arguments or find someone else to argue with, you’re simply outmatched here.[/quote]

You’ve not disproven anything that I’ve written. The bottom line is the UFC had a strong HW division in 2008, that is what you were arguing against, did you forget? What you’re saying in essence is that Lesnar, Mir, Carwin, Velesquez and company were just not up to the standards of the Strikeforce HW’s. LOL Now disprove that or admit that you were wrong, or stop posting. I’ll take any of the three.

[/quote]
My whole point is that at the time in 2008, in 2008 and in 2008 that the UFC DID NOT HABE THE BETTER DIVISION. It wasn’t until the fighters established themselves more that people started saying they did. And shit even now I don’t think it is clear who has the better division. Carwin vs Sergei? Werdum Mir? Silva Mir? Overeem Lesnar? Overeem Cain? Barnett Mir? Who wins those fights, hell if I know. And if you think the UFC is better across the board you’re a fool. (Which you have clearly displayed in the past btw, all of my bad posts were mostly troll posts for self amusement, but yours have a hilarious honesty to them.)

88

I would call the middle of '09 to be the time when the UFC’s heavyweight division really started to sort out the new vs old guard. Prior to '09 Lesnar had never beat Mir, Carwin hadn’t stepped it up to take out Gonzaga, and Valasquez ran through Stojnic, Kongo, and Rothwell that year. Any of those fights go the other way and the UFC’s top 5 are very different. Dos Santos’s biggest victory prior to '09 was Werdum (Mr. Win a couple drop 1) and I don’t really think he can be considered proven until he goes against a good wrestler. In '08 the UFC had Nog as an interim champ, Couture as an injured champ, Sylvia as top 3 (whom Fedor smashed that year) and Arlovski was on a 5 fight win streak (which ended in '09 via Fedor).

So in 2008 the claim the UFC didn’t have any depth at heavyweight has serious merit. Sylvia was a dominant (boring, ugly, goofy, but kept on winning) champ until Couture decisioned him. Couture beat Gonzaga and promplty got injured until Lesnar (3-1 at the time) took him out in Nov of '08. I don’t think that is a ton of depth. From 2008-9 Fedor crushed Sylvia, KO’d Arlovski, and was supposed to fight Barnett (ranked no. 2 in the world at the time). That is a pretty tough schedule. Instead Affliction busted and rather than sign with the UFC (which had a damn impressive batch of heavies by this time) Fedor went to Strikeforce and beat Rogers. He fought once in 2010 and lost (Werdum triangles a living legend, but gets chin checked and crumbles against JDS). That brings us to the Strikeforce tourniment.

89

[quote]sardines12 wrote:
My whole point is that at the time in 2008, in 2008 and in 2008 that the UFC DID NOT HABE THE BETTER DIVISION. It wasn’t until the fighters established themselves more that people started saying they did. And shit even now I don’t think it is clear who has the better division. Carwin vs Sergei? Werdum Mir? Silva Mir? Overeem Lesnar? Overeem Cain? Barnett Mir? [/quote]

Very true, but I don’t think we’re discussing 08, but 09.

Carwin
Werdum
Silva
Reem
Cain
Barnett

(fuck Mir LOL).

90

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

My whole point is that at the time in 2008, in 2008 and in 2008 that the UFC DID NOT HABE THE BETTER DIVISION. [/quote]

I think the UFC would win the majority of match up vs Strikeforce. They would have in 08’ and now. SO we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this.

91

[quote]Robert A wrote:
I would call the middle of '09 to be the time when the UFC’s heavyweight division really started to sort out the new vs old guard. Prior to '09 Lesnar had never beat Mir, Carwin hadn’t stepped it up to take out Gonzaga, and Valasquez ran through Stojnic, Kongo, and Rothwell that year. Any of those fights go the other way and the UFC’s top 5 are very different. Dos Santos’s biggest victory prior to '09 was Werdum (Mr. Win a couple drop 1) and I don’t really think he can be considered proven until he goes against a good wrestler. In '08 the UFC had Nog as an interim champ, Couture as an injured champ, Sylvia as top 3 (whom Fedor smashed that year) and Arlovski was on a 5 fight win streak (which ended in '09 via Fedor).

So in 2008 the claim the UFC didn’t have any depth at heavyweight has serious merit. Sylvia was a dominant (boring, ugly, goofy, but kept on winning) champ until Couture decisioned him. Couture beat Gonzaga and promplty got injured until Lesnar (3-1 at the time) took him out in Nov of '08. I don’t think that is a ton of depth. From 2008-9 Fedor crushed Sylvia, KO’d Arlovski, and was supposed to fight Barnett (ranked no. 2 in the world at the time). That is a pretty tough schedule. Instead Affliction busted and rather than sign with the UFC (which had a damn impressive batch of heavies by this time) Fedor went to Strikeforce and beat Rogers. He fought once in 2010 and lost (Werdum triangles a living legend, but gets chin checked and crumbles against JDS). That brings us to the Strikeforce tourniment.[/quote]

exactamundo

92

found a HW ranking from OCT 08, think that is right after Fedor beat Sylvia

if you scroll down there is a graph with how all the other sites had the rankings as well.

The argument that Fedor hasn’t fought anyone in years is just dumb. WHEN he fought these people they where top ranked. Sylvia was dominate over the UFC was beating up Noguria before being submitted. Arlosvki was on a 4-5 fight win streak after being beat by Sylvia. Including a win over Werdum. He then was supposed to fight Josh Barnett who was also ranked top 5. Once he went to strikeforce he should have fought Overeem for the belt but Some places had Rogers ranked as high as 5 when they fought. Werdum was also top 10 as well as Silva.

The game has just evolved and Fedor hasn’t it seems. Same thing has happened to many once dominant fighters.

Can’t wait for the rest of this tournament

93

[quote]Kalle wrote:
The argument that Fedor hasn’t fought anyone in years is just dumb. [/quote]

I agree, but that’s how people think. After BJ Penn loses to John Fitch they’ll probably be saying that about him too.

94

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Kalle wrote:
The argument that Fedor hasn’t fought anyone in years is just dumb. [/quote]

I agree, but that’s how people think. After BJ Penn loses to John Fitch they’ll probably be saying that about him too.

[/quote]
he won’t lose

95

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Kalle wrote:
The argument that Fedor hasn’t fought anyone in years is just dumb. [/quote]

I agree, but that’s how people think. After BJ Penn loses to John Fitch they’ll probably be saying that about him too.

[/quote]
he won’t lose[/quote]

He most assuredly will.

96

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Kalle wrote:
The argument that Fedor hasn’t fought anyone in years is just dumb. [/quote]

I agree, but that’s how people think. After BJ Penn loses to John Fitch they’ll probably be saying that about him too.

[/quote]
he won’t lose[/quote]

He most assuredly will.[/quote]

You call fights so well I have to believe you. :frowning: Sarcasm :frowning:

97

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Kalle wrote:
The argument that Fedor hasn’t fought anyone in years is just dumb. [/quote]

I agree, but that’s how people think. After BJ Penn loses to John Fitch they’ll probably be saying that about him too.

[/quote]
he won’t lose[/quote]

He most assuredly will.[/quote]

You call fights so well I have to believe you. :frowning: Sarcasm :([/quote]

You have a good point there. If I call someone it’s almost a sure bet that they will lose. Buuuuut this time I’m right, Penn will lose.

98

Some of you may have already seen, but Fedor is back in Russia and reconsidered retirement. There is a story on Yahoo! Sports. He is also talking about a chance to get back in the tournament. I don’t want to see that happen because he lost and technically should be eliminated. If by some miracle he would replace an injured fighter and win the whole thing, there would be a cloud of controversy hanging over it.

Once this whole tourney is sorted out, I would like to see him get another crack at Werdum. I still think that is a winnable fight for him. I think at this point in his career it’s the Super HW types that will give Fedor problems. Outside of the tourney, a matchup with Kharitinov could be interesting, as well as maybe a rematch with Arlovski.

99

[quote]Dre Cappa wrote:
I would like to see him get another crack at Werdum. [/quote]

Why don’t you like Fedor? What has he ever done to you?

100

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Dre Cappa wrote:
I would like to see him get another crack at Werdum. [/quote]

Why don’t you like Fedor? What has he ever done to you?
[/quote]

I want to see Fedor get his crack at Bisbing.