Does anyone have this book:
Strength and power in sport (pp 381-395). Oxford, England: Blackwell
It is by Komi.
I need a rundown of those pages.
I have all of my history, philo, religion books from college…
Any exercise science guys as geeky as me?
Thanks in advance.
J
I read it from my school’s library… if you asked me 2 months ago I would have totally hooked you up! Great book though, I’ll have to check to see if my school’s library is open during the summer.
http://www.blackwellpublishing.com/book.asp?ref=0632059117&site=1
and buy me a copy while your there!!
Seriously though, a GREAT read - i first encountered the bulgarian style of training there…some interesting stuff and hardly ever gets a mention when people recommend books - possible due to its price - no one has it.
I’ve got it; great book. What do you need to know?
I have access to this book, it is part of a series tittled the encyclopedia of sports medicine.
The sections in the book are as follows:
1)Definitions
2)Biological Basis for Strength and Power
3) Mechanisms of Adaptation in strength and power training
4)Special Problems in Strength and Power training
5)Strength and power trainng for sports
There are many smaller sections in each Part that I did not list. The majority of the book is actual research studies that were performed. If you have any other questions I would be glad to try and help.
Thanks guys.
OK, here is the gripe.
I work with a number of college coaches to ‘analyze’ the strength programs they are provided by their S&C coaches.
Bascially I serve to bridge the gap between the S&C coach, who doesn’t take the time to explain what and why they are doing things, and the coaches, who always question what is going on in the weightroom since their kids are still facing the same issues year after year… fair enough.
Usually my first suggestion is to recuit better athletes. Ha! (But seriously)
Among college coaches, football and basketball usually get the athletes who would benefit most from the standard S&C protocol prescribed in college. These athletes test out beautifully in terms of reactivity. Therefore, most gains in strength are quickly converted to usable power. A few squats, a few bench presses, maybe a C&J, and the kids gets better.
But, as you progress to lower level schools, small IA, or towards the lower tier sports, the athletes that a college coach gets have a very wide array of reactive ability. They also get a much wider array of movement patterns among the athletes. Running, jumping, and decelerating form is usually a toss up.
The most common issues I see are: poorly developed PF region (usually with very little reactive ability… aka heel bangers), anterior pelvic tilt (usually causing hamsting and hip flexor issues if the athlete is powerful at all), negative shin angles when accelerating (because of reaching), no power at toe off (even though they ‘squat’)…
And the final issue I see is that they are not receiving any guidance in these areas.
This last spring I worked with a women’s soccer team from one of the Big Six Conferences… riddled with anterior pelvic tilt issues, core stabilization issues (even though “we do core work constantly”), and some of the most disgusting displays of force absorption known to mankind…
It is rather frustrating to watch a support staff not address any of these issues. The dysfunctional PF regions mainly just affect these girl’s speed, although IMO they may have contributed to the 8 or so ACL’s on this team.
The other issues literally have three girls sidelined more than half the time… and still the issues aren’t addressed.
As a rundown, the majority of their work has nothing to do with force absorption, it is basic straight lifitng. Now, I usually don’t have an issue with this, if force absorption is addressed in other ways… it isn’t. Also, the depth of the movements, and the dominance of free squatting to rear chain work just makes me shake my head. Plus, if your deal is basic lifting protocols, wouldn’t you think that concentrating on form and depth would be priority? Nope.
For the most part, I see S&C progrsms that have the same program for freshman as for seniors… not appropriate. Now, guys like Joe Kenn have addressed this issue beautifully, but I would contend he is an example of a very forward thinking coach. Plus, he isn’t a lazy sack of crap who decides to take the easy, cookie-cutter way out.
But, here is the rub:
I have yet to encounter a single program who takes a freshamn with these issues, and “gets them up to speed” so to say by:
A) Drilling to correct movement patterns. Literally teach them to run, decellerate, cut, etc.
B) Correct core stabilization issues from the outset prior to training them with high force.
C) Design a progressive weight program for each athlete’s level of preparedness, with testing that would dictate their ability to advance… not age, not class, just the ability to pass a functional (I hate that word now, thanks Perform Better), but a functional test.
and,
D) Design a progressive plyometric program designed to improve reactive qualities… with the same stipulations as above in that an athlete must test to advance. The plyo program would stem from the weight program, which taught the athlete to absorb force in a progressive fashion. Similarly, the plyo program would not only increase in amplitude (rate), but would also increase in complexity (torsion, or work in the transverse plane).
I currently do have a testing protocol for athlete’s reactivity, but I wanted to refer to the book, specifically Schmidtbleicher’s reactive strength resources test. I am pleased with what I use currently, but wanted to get additional info from those pages (380-305), I think.
Those pages are literally cited in almost every single jump article over the past ten years, so I get the gist…also, there are a few sites who basically outline those pages in powerpoint presentations, but…
I would like to glean the information myself.
I will run over to the local library and see if they have a copy.
Oh, and just so you all know, the best part about this spring was that I was very comfortable during my consultations with the coaches. I got to lean on the GHR all spring since no athletes even used this piece of equipment.
Maybe the head S&C guy, with all of his ‘experience’ just thinks that ACL scars are ‘purdy’, and that ‘keep your hips low’ encompasses movement training…
Maybe.
J
Eric~
I actually wouldn’t mind hearing your thoughts on Schmidtbleicher’s reactive strength resources test.
If you’ve got the time.
Thanks man.
J
Jumanji,
I am not sure if what I am writing here helps, I am just writing the end summary of Schmidtbleichers research from Chapter 18…if you are more interested in the stuff written on Concentirc/isometic actions, SSC, training to develop RFD ,it is disscused earlier in the chapter…hopefully this might help bring about ideas on the chapter???..in Training for Power Events, Chapter 18 Schmidtbleicher writes some “Practical recommendations for training purposes” which are as follows:
"Regardless of the training methods practised, the coach as well as the athlete must carefully record the number of training units, the intensity, the number of repititions, and the rest interval, so that the training goal can be precisely established. To identify only the volume of training in tonnes without identifying other training characteristics is meaningless. For example, a worker who lifts 2kg, 2000 times a day would perform 20t in a week, without any visible training adaptations. Which brings us to the concept of progressive loads. During every training unit or after every training week, the maximal performance capacity must be redetermined. If this principle is not followed, training progress will soon stagnate. ANother principle to be followedd is the conformity of the training movmement to the competitive movement; the range and direction of the movement must be similar as possible.
The difference between the competitive movement and the training movement must be minimal, so that the greatest transfer to the competitive movement can occur. This is valid to an increasing degree in terms of the general goal-oriented preparation and becomes really necessary when doing specific strength training. Another common mistake is made in the elimination of strength training in the competitive phase. This prevents the transfer of the aquired preparatory conditioning to high performance, since most of the peaking is aimed at technical preparation. In competition phase, one should maintain existing strength and power status by performing two training units per week. To attain absolute high-performance capacity, one should not cease conditioning training more than 5-6days before competition.The sophisticated use of macro- and microcycles can bring about peaks for training competitons; however one shold realize that absolute peaking can occur only twice a year. When one increases the number of training units devoted to strength and power training, he/she should elevate the propotion of ‘lengthening gymnastics’(stretching, physiotherapeutic procedures ect.).
Based on the training methods and the specific recommendations given above, the athlete and the coach can develop concrete training procedures and possibly more economic and efficient training." (komi et.al, 1992)
Sorry if this was not what you were looking for.
Peace
Thank you rbm… that is good.
Actually looking for what he does in terms of testing reactivity, and possibly recommendations for loading to correct the issue.
Like I was saying, I know what I do… but might as well see what the supergurus with all the fancy equipment do…
Thanks again.
J
Briefly, thank you for this thread; I feel a kinship w/Cressey and Jumanji as Cressey is coming to L.A. and Jumanji is reinforcing a concept (a la Schroeder&Arculeta) that should be taught more. S&C coaches for sure do have egos and very protective attitudes. So, your resistance from the S&C programs is akin to “undressing the king”. The king does not like to be undressed. Too bad, because, at least with a willing ear, they just may learn something that would elicit kudos from the head coach. My educated assumption is that hard, fast compound lifts PLUS the plyos is the prescription for success. I hope to have the Oaks program attend to see Eric et al and…I gave the “Freak of Training” (Archuleta) to their S&C coach this morning. So, hopefully he sees merit in it. In any event, thanks for the thoughtful discourse on the complex methods to make athletes much better performers.
Actually, Jumanji is more Inno-Sport than Evo-Sport…
Ze~
I am?
Kool…ha!
I am not really sure what I am. Love trap bar deads, heavy eccentrics, iso holds, overcoming iso’s, Iso-X’s (all iso’s tend towards unilateral), OI’s, FDA’s, REA’s, and utilize a five level progressive plyo system in the three planes…
I love rate work in the CJC position really helps to build the correct dynamic strength required in the deep angles, so tramp runs, the unilateral plyo progression Jay showcases in FREAK, circle hops, line hops, etc all in CJC.
I agree with Dave that until you are above 2.5X BW squat, strength work will still help immensely, but go further to say that while strength work will produce gains, the harnessing of that strength into reactive power may produce faster gains… at the lower levels ESD kills too many weightroom warriors…
You know the type… constantly asking how much you can bench.
Who cares if you cannot get to the point of attack?
Oops, this is a strength forum.
I think due to not having my own facility, I am closer to Inno than Evo, but it would be the other way around if I had the ability to merely work on the underlying physical qualities full time.
Body positioning is key, and the ability to harness extreme levels of force in the correct positions reigns supreme… which is Jay all the way. PF area is the limiting factor in the human structure…check.
Plus, I work with developing athletes quite a bit, so they literally don’t know how to stop properly, control their core and COG, they have poor shin angles during accleration, and run with a flat tire…
Of course, save for high level FB and BB players, this is true of many scholarship athletes even in college.
So evo or inno?
Or something else entirely…
Maybe I just need to make up my own names and call it a brand new system…
Ha!
Jumanji,
In the text, there is no reference to reactivity, and but rather rate of force development and stretch-shortening cycle type movements. I think these are the same thing but I could be wrong??? In terms of the test he uses I am not sure, perhaps Eric would understand better what exactly was done but in order to make a “diagnosis of general and sport-specific parameters,” it is written that, " a biomechanical performance diagnosis is based largely on the recording of force-time curves to keep individual lifting ratios, as well as intermuscular coordination, as constant as possible special measuring devices with force transducers (Kistler-Piezo) were constructed for arm extensors and leg extensors. The data are processed on personal computers, whose programs allow the rapid reading of measured values from AD-converter. All time values are interpolated linearly and expressed precisely in milli-seconds. Differentation is carried out using a modified central-difference method and the intergration according to the trapezius rule (Muller, 1983, Schweizer, 1984; Worn 1988). From the resulting force-time curves one can determine isometirc maximal strength , IRFD, MRFD, and in the case of concentric actions also the movement time and the development strength level.
The performance diagnosis for the SSC consists of a standard programme that includes squat jumps, counter-movement jumps which are representative for slow SSC, and drop jumps from different heights. The drop jumps were executed with fixed hands at the hip and start from heights of 16cm, 24cm,ect. in steps of 8cm. In all jump conditions the height of the center of gravity of the body reached in the jump serves as a criterion. Drop jumps were executed until the individual maximum from the coresponding dropping height was reached (Asmussen & Bonde-Peterson, 1974; Kuhlow, 1980, Bosco, 1982; Schmidtbleicher, 1985).
The corresponding force-time curves of the jumps were registered with a force-platform (kistler) and the data processed on personal computers. The program allows rapid information about maximum ground reaction forces, contact and flight times and height of center of gravity of the body in the jump (Worn, 1989).
Prognosis:
Only a few components are required to make a valid performance prognosis. For training practice the difference between the measures of maximal isometric strength and maximal eccentirc strength provides a raw assesment concerning the voluntary activation capacity of the available muscle mass activated by the test movement. The difference between maximal isometric and eccentric strength varies depending on the momentaneous status of training performance. With better adaptation of the neuronal system the difference diminishes. If a hypertrophy training method is used the difference increases. The value of the difference helps not only to determine which method of training is appropriate at a given time but also delivers information about the momentaneous status in training. Over a period of about 8 years this diagnostic system has worked very successfully and the individual regulation of the training process was mainly orientated on the described parameters."
Thank you rbm… excellent.
Jumanji,
I reread your original post and you pose some very interesting points. It seems very sad that at the college level coaches do not work together, to help make the athletes better based on the head coaches egos and feelings that they know it all. It seems as though the coaches at higher levels do not want to teach athletes skills anylonger,for whatever reason (laziness, ignorance…???), all the coaches want to do is get great talent and then incorporate them into their systems. I know there are a lot of exceptions to this but a lot of lower level teams in college or high school just copy what the best teams are doing when in fact it may not be the best method. Enough of my rant…in terms of training RFD and SSC, Komi’s book …
“Training methods for the rate of force development”
"Training methods of this type produce a neuromuscular adaptation along with only minimal hypertrophy effects. Optimal adaptation occurs after a training period of 6-8 weeks with four training units per week. These methods contribute to an increase in RFD and an improvement in neuronal activation, along with a more effective exploitation of the existing muscle potential with less accompying muscle mass or body weight increases.
The main characteristics of these methods are short-term extremely fast maximal actions against near maximum loads, or in the case of eccentirc actions against supramaximal loads. Difficulties in understanding the demand of the ‘extreme fast maximal actions against high loads’ occur if one does not differentiate precisley between action and movement velocity, i.e. the action velocity is high, but the movement velocity from the load is very low, becasue of the high loads. These training methods emphasize neuronal output and therefore should be practised, following an intensive warm-up, in a rested state with each action being executed with maximal voluntary effect as fast as possible.
1 Near maximal concentric workouts: a ‘narrow’ pyramid approach is most commonly used. In this case, with the last set, an attempt is undertaken to imprve the previous best performance and the principle of progressive resistance is integrated in every training unit. Instead of the pyramid approach some coaches and athletes prefer a programme that contains three sets with three repetitions, each against a load of 90%. Rest intervals in all RFD methods should be at least 5 min for the muscle that is involved in the exercise to avoid fatigue. Other muscle groups can be practised during the pause.
2 Maximal concentirc workouts: this method is recommended only for highly trained athletes and was introduced into the training system by bulgarian weightlifters. Attempts to improve the performance are made in every new trainnig unit. In the case of weightlifting the principle of coincidence of training and competition movement is easy to fulfill.
3 Maximal eccentric workouts: the load used for eccentirc strength developmment is sport, not in rehabilitation, must be supramaximal, but it should not exceed 150% of the maximal isometric strength. Training partners can be used to overcome the high load with the eccentric part of the movment, therefore eliminating the need for special apparatus. In every case, the athlete must use the greatest amount of resistance possible. In power sports with hyperextensions (javelin throwing handball throws, volleyball strokes, ect.) the resistance should be only slightly higher than 100% and the training practised only with assistance to prevent injuries.
4 Concentric-eccentric workouts: this training method combines the superiority of maximal concentric actions in developing RFD with the maximal peak-loading characteristics of maximal eccentric workouts. To perform this technique the almost free falling barbell is decelerated and then accelerated in the shortest possible time. This training form is commonly used in exercises such as the bench press, and clean pulls by not allowing pauses while perfroming a perscribed set of repititions. German male and female high jumpers have used such training methods, and these have produced good results. This type of training form should not be confounded with a mixed concentric and eccentric training as it was investigated by Kaneko et al. (1984). "
more on training SSC later…