[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
Zach’s goal was to gain mass. He did. He enjoyed remarkable improvement with his lifts in a short time.
He was skinny fat before, and thickened up and got strong. How fucking dare he do that. He isn’t single digit body fat after, but he wasn’t before either.
[/quote]
if by thicken up you mean put on 40lb’s of fat then yer he did. he is atleast 22-25% body fat.[/quote]
How did you hydrostatically weigh him over the internet?
Also, do you know the changes he’s made since then?
Could he not have applied the same dedication to composition changes as he did to getting stronger? If the OP gets stronger with the same reps, do you think he’ll get fat just because?
The OP is weak. What do you suppose will get him stronger? 10-12 work sets once per week or 3 to 4 sets 3x per week?
The gallon of milk per day had more to do with any extra flesh than did the systematic approach to progressively heavier weights being moved.
[/quote]
who cares if it gets him stronger quicker if he is neglecting alot of muscles, bodybuilding is not about who gains stength the fastest. zack put on like 53 pounds in 3 months. he would be lucky if 15 pounds of all that was muscle. i dont know if he is doing a recomp or not, but if someone has to do a recomp or cut after 3 months of training there is something seriously wrong with your nutrition. [/quote]
agreed, too much weight too fast not enough muscle.
in the before pool side picture he looked skinny, I wouldn’t even use the term skinny fat.
in the after picture he looks like someone who doesn’t lift.
If i saw him at the beach and he told me he trained with a famous coach and did GOMAD I’d probably attempt to pursuade him to try something new because Mark failed him.
I want to see current pictures though and know how his training progressed if he didn’t give it up, I mean this is a life long endeavor and for those of us that did/do the whole extreme perma bulking thing we don’t always look awesome every year.
but yeah dude 50-70lbs whatever he gained wasn’t cool haha,
[quote]sesumatse wrote:
Ya, I didnt know what I was doing with training thats why I was stuck.I certainly researched the gear and dosage I used and made great gains while on. I wasnt dumb enough to stay on gear indefinately and wreck my endocrine system however. I was referring to what I maintained as my natural weight after I had done it.
Point is strength training first then bodybuilding training would have been my chosen route if I had it all to do over again, no gear.
The westside one exercise max then lighter assistance work is GREAT I love that.
The 1-6 Mixed neural drive/ hypertrophy program by poliquin is a show stopper for bodybuilders based on the same concept. Do a max single, force your body to activate more motor units, then wait a min or two and do your previous 6 rep max on the exercise, but ul get more reps instantly and youl be shocked as you do 9 reps with a weight u barely go 6 for that same day. Its like living proof that max strength training is beneficial![/quote]
i dont even know what your arguing anymore. who cares about westside where talking about someone with strictly physique oriented goals. [/quote]
All he is saying is you gotta work with progressively heavier weights to get bigger.
I don’t think the OP should stay on a strength phase for the rest of his life, but a good 8 to 12 weeks of working at strength and then a hypertrophy phase for a while, will get him more muscle. If his goal is fitness model appearance, he could tweak what he does for that goal if he is convinced that is what he wants to do.
Heck, he could switch over to single leg training after a while if he is really worried about getting blocky, if that is what he believes. Not doing a lot of volume for the chest but working on shoulder width with presses and a variety of raises.
[quote]sesumatse wrote:
Ya, I didnt know what I was doing with training thats why I was stuck.I certainly researched the gear and dosage I used and made great gains while on. I wasnt dumb enough to stay on gear indefinately and wreck my endocrine system however. I was referring to what I maintained as my natural weight after I had done it.
Point is strength training first then bodybuilding training would have been my chosen route if I had it all to do over again, no gear.
The westside one exercise max then lighter assistance work is GREAT I love that.
The 1-6 Mixed neural drive/ hypertrophy program by poliquin is a show stopper for bodybuilders based on the same concept. Do a max single, force your body to activate more motor units, then wait a min or two and do your previous 6 rep max on the exercise, but ul get more reps instantly and youl be shocked as you do 9 reps with a weight u barely go 6 for that same day. Its like living proof that max strength training is beneficial![/quote]
i dont even know what your arguing anymore. who cares about westside where talking about someone with strictly physique oriented goals. [/quote]
All he is saying is you gotta work with progressively heavier weights to get bigger.
I don’t think the OP should stay on a strength phase for the rest of his life, but a good 8 to 12 weeks of working at strength and then a hypertrophy phase for a while, will get him more muscle. If his goal is fitness model appearance, he could tweak what he does for that goal if he is convinced that is what he wants to do.
Heck, he could switch over to single leg training after a while if he is really worried about getting blocky, if that is what he believes. Not doing a lot of volume for the chest but working on shoulder width with presses and a variety of raises. [/quote]
no shit someone must use progressively heavier weights to get bigger, all bodybuilders do this!
but you dont have to fucking strength train to progressively overload the muscles.
no shit someone must use progressively heavier weights to get bigger, all bodybuilders do this!
but you dont have to fucking strength train to progressively overload the muscles. [/quote]
Agreed. this is why these newbs think there is some secret formula of numbered sets and reps to get swole. It’s bullshit.
Now, mind you, I am not saying he even made bad progress. I am saying there is no real legit reason for someone interested in making huge changes in their appearance to spend time on “starting strength”.
There are less huge lifters in the gym than ever before. I sort of hate people looking at me strange because I look like I actually use the place.
There are less huge lifters in the gym than ever before. I sort of hate people looking at me strange because I look like I actually use the place.
AMEN, what the hell is up with this phenomenon lately, totally aggravating in a commercial gym, cant wait to get my garage gym goin and my 3 best deticated training buds are down 4 it.
Those pictures are all the OP needs to look at. That kid got stronger on ONLY the big three movements, yet he has no chest, arms, back, traps, or quads. That shows that you need to get stronger on the isolation movements along with compound movements. Even if that guy does cut he will just look like he did orginally because he didn’t build muscle in the right places. OP just do what zraw said
[quote]charlotte49er wrote:
Those pictures are all the OP needs to look at. That kid got stronger on ONLY the big three movements, yet he has no chest, arms, back, traps, or quads. That shows that you need to get stronger on the isolation movements along with compound movements. Even if that guy does cut he will just look like he did orginally because he didn’t build muscle in the right places. OP just do what zraw said[/quote]
He honestly just looks like a more filled out version of his former self. I would say someone who spent months acting like that was the ideal way to train wasted their time.
I never did some specific program for strength. I don’t see many who did curling over 70lbs dumbbells. I really don’t care how much this kid’s squat may have increased. Shawn Ray built his body without often going over 2 plates a side on squats.
It is like it is out of style to just say, “hey guys, I want to be a swole son of a bitch!”. You have to pretend to be “Super-pseudo-athlete” who doesn’t stand out at all for his physical development
[quote]gregron wrote:
^^who is the guy in those pictures?
I feel like I missed something.[/quote]
he trained under Rippetoe and gained 31 lbs of muscle + 24 lbs of fat in his first 3 months of lifting
He did extremely well, people need to stop taking this out of proportion.[/quote]
I don’t see anyone taking it out of proportion. What did he do that he would not have been able to do training like a bodybuilder?
Just so you know, bulking up, gaining basically half and half muscle and fat is AVERAGE and EXPECTED. That is one of the reasons I did it. It isn’t magic nor does it mean that “starting strength” did something that “enhanced” his growth.
He now has imbalances. He will now have to spend quite a bit of time correcting those.
Would it not make sense to avoid getting them in the first place?
Dude, I agreed with you. Starting strength is called starting strength because, for starters, it’s used to start getting strength. This program is so controversial because people have taken it way out of proportion, using it for purposes other than initial strength training.
That being said, gaining 3lbs of muscle per week for 3 months straight is great. I’m sure most of us here looked just as shitty as Rippetoe’s trainee after our first 3 months of lifting, yet could not squat over 300 for reps. It’s a good use of time considering that I could drop the fat gained very quickly.
[quote]browndisaster wrote:
Dude, I agreed with you. Starting strength is called starting strength because, for starters, it’s used to start getting strength. This program is so controversial because people have taken it way out of proportion, using it for purposes other than initial strength training.
That being said, gaining 3lbs of muscle per week for 3 months straight is great. I’m sure most of us here looked just as shitty as Rippetoe’s trainee after our first 3 months of lifting, yet could not squat over 300 for reps. It’s a good use of time considering that I could drop the fat gained very quickly.
don’t use caps with me again btw[/quote]
for starters he did not gain 31pounds of muscle in 3 months. also no i did not turn in to a fat mess like rippetoes trainee after 3 months of training. another thing you would not be able to drop that much fat quickly without loosing a considerable amount of muscle.
[quote]gregron wrote:
^^who is the guy in those pictures?
I feel like I missed something.[/quote]
he trained under Rippetoe and gained 31 lbs of muscle + 24 lbs of fat in his first 3 months of lifting
He did extremely well, people need to stop taking this out of proportion.[/quote]
That picture 1 to picture 2 is not a 31 lb gain of muscle.
The guy just looks considerably fatter in the second picture. Does not look like he trains at all.
I would NEVER put up that “before and after” shot as a trainer unless I decided that I no longer liked making money and wanted to bankrupt myself for some reason.
Next time you’re in the gym try to either: A. lift heavier weights or B. Lift it more times than before.
If you want a bodypart to grow, train it directly.
If you want a lagging BP to catch up, train it more often.
When you’re training a BP make sure you feel that muscle working throughout the movement.
If your goal is to have any awesome physique then forget about how much you bench/squat/DL… Lots of guys have impressive bench/squat/DL’s but don’t have impressive chests/legs/backs.
[quote]gregron wrote:
Here are dome easy to follow guidelines:
Lift “heavy” weights.
Eat enough good food to grow.
Next time you’re in the gym try to either: A. lift heavier weights or B. Lift it more times than before.
If you want a bodypart to grow, train it directly.
If you want a lagging BP to catch up, train it more often.
When you’re training a BP make sure you feel that muscle working throughout the movement.
If your goal is to have any awesome physique then forget about how much you bench/squat/DL… Lots of guys have impressive bench/squat/DL’s but don’t have impressive chests/legs/backs.
I notice he put up a shirted picture for the after shot in the article I read lol, maybe he changed it later. I think his examples work for what he’s claiming, which is getting the guy’s squat from 1 plate per side to 3 plates per side. It definitely gets blown out of proportion, with so many posters recommending starting strength to every noobish poster.
That’s why I like 5/3/1, it covers heavy lifting, bbing, conditioning, and diet in a balanced and easy to follow manner. I wish I read that as a noob, instead of the heavily dogmatic stuff that will overemphasize one concept or other to the point where it’s ineffective
I notice he put up a shirted picture for the after shot in the article I read lol, maybe he changed it later. I think his examples work for what he’s claiming, which is getting the guy’s squat from 1 plate per side to 3 plates per side. It definitely gets blown out of proportion, with so many posters recommending starting strength to every noobish poster.
That’s why I like 5/3/1, it covers heavy lifting, bbing, conditioning, and diet in a balanced and easy to follow manner. I wish I read that as a noob, instead of the heavily dogmatic stuff that will overemphasize one concept or other to the point where it’s ineffective
