[quote]Robert A wrote:
WhiteCrow,
I am going to respond to several of your posts. I do not know how to merge multiple posts into one post so this will be a bit scattered.
You are studying to be a lawyer/jurist/barrister. That is a professional degree. I am completely ignorant of law in the Netherlands, and you are of course the opposite being in pursuit of your degree. I am not trying to speak for FightinIrish, but I know in the US that a felony conviction of any sort can hold you back in professional careers. It may even make you ineligible for certain jobs. Irish alluded to the uncertainty that comes with violence. The legal ramifications of tuning someone up, even in consensual combat, are very real in this country. I suspect they are in yours as well.
Your original post related a situation where it is my opinion there was nothing to be gained in the external world with violence. You were not under immediate attack; you were invited to a fight. You declined. Yes you were pushed, but as Irish pointed out the time to act like that was a real attack, and not an invitation, was prior to shoving back. Shit like this is very much about establishing dominance in a social group.
You do not know the guy; his rank in relation to yours ceases to be of value at the end of the night. You brought your girlfriend to the party, so it is not like you needed to act big to hook up (and really avoid the women who like to see you fight as Miss Parker elaborated on). Basically the normal benefits of this whole dominance game were unavailable to you, no social structure to advance in, no extra or additional sexual partners, nothing. NOTHING BUT DRAWBACKS. Even if you could have crushed him in a blink of an eye, you would stand to gain nothing by doing so.
Even if viewed through a completely amoral, relativist lens I think you did the right thing in declining. If you fight you may be/ probably will get banged up. You may catch a charge, maybe even a body. There are a ton of witnesses. You do not know him or his friends and whether they perceive you as a “hard man”, alpha or something else has little bearing on your life now. Your friends are still your friends. You went home with the same girl you brought. If you knock him out do you at least get to take his watch? If you dominate him do you get to take possession of all of his hale livestock and attractive womenfolk, or since I am a native of Pennsylvania all of his attractive livestock and hale womenfolk? No. Then why fuckin’ fight?
The only consequence is that maybe you are judging yourself, and finding yourself lacking for not fighting. That is ego, and in this case it is not your friend. I will reiterate that a few amateur boxing matches will likely inoculate you against this. When you wrote that “Even knowing that I would be able to kick someone’s ass would greatly reduce the need to punch said guy, if you understand what I mean?” you are alluding to the effects of building real confidence that comes from training in combat sports/legitimate martial arts. There is no substitute. This board is great for advice to help you start and keep you on that path.
You have since made some other examples where clearly violence, is the right answer. These are hypotheticals. It has been my experience that often people who feel they were not "braveâ?? in the face of violence in the past like to come up with ways they might be forced to be “brave” in the future. If this is happening in your case, be cognizant of it. If you start acting based on emotions rather realities, you give up the very ability you are chasing, the ability to think calmly and respond appropriately when threatened.
Side Note: Even if you are adamant this does not apply to you, look for it in others. The ability to recognize and deal with/capitalize on this phenomena in others will be a great advantage to you in professional dealings (especially in your soon to be profession) and the ability to recognize and minimize its effects in yourself may help you keep some friendships and prevent some insults that might otherwise occur.
Your examples about being raped at gunpoint or having to defend a friend from being beaten by a crowd are much different cases than what actually occurred at the party. In both law allows the use of force, even potentially lethal force. These are very much “run what you brung” cases and the answer of what I would do is “As much as I am capable, as best as I am capable, for as long as I am still capable.” When Irish brought up the “Twenty Ninja” attack it is in reference to hypotheticals such as these. If violence is legitimately the best or only option, take the best option. The thing is, as Irish pointed out far better than I have, violence is seldom the only option.
You referenced impotence as how this situation made you feel. (An Aside: The fact that you made a point of using a “guys can relate, but women canâ??t” example to Miss Parker and the fact rougevampire put quotes around woman when referencing her in another thread is hilarious to me. I am of course assuming Miss Parker is in real life the very attractive women in her avatar. ) That tells me that ego is the right term for it, not honor. Few places would be as dangerous for your girlfriend as a party where a fight just jumped off. Refusing to put her in that position is the opposite of emasculating.
Regards,
Robert A
[/quote]
Great post Robert.
White Crow,
As Robert alluded to, the issue here is true self confidence (or lack thereof). If you have it, you can just brush off meaningless people’s words. You know deep down inside what you are capable of, that the things being said to you are not true, and that the person saying them likely lacks true self confidence and is just trying to gain some power over you by tricking you into acting like they want you to.
If you don’t have it though, ego takes it’s place and ego can be easily bruised or damaged. This leads to you questioning yourself and possibly being tricked into acting in ways which ultimately do you no good (or worse yet harm).
Like has been said numerous times, go to a reputable combative arts training center (Boxing, Judo, Wrestling, Muay Thai, Krav, something where you are actually going to go live sometimes) and develop some true self confidence through hard work and being “under fire”. Once you have gained a decent amount of true self confidence, it will become a lot easier for you to tell the situations which truly call for violence (which as Irish and others pointed out, are usually few and far between), and ones which don’t (like the one in your OP).