My above post was in response to the question:
“When you see three guys starting to hit a friend of yours, would you walk away? It is the safe thing to do…?”
[quote]WhiteCrow wrote:
[quote]rundymc wrote:
The only reason to fight, ever, is to defend yourself from grevious harm and/or death. Playing to your ego is retarded. I’ve never gotten into an altercation I couldn’t back away from and not look like a vagina. Then again, I barely drink when I’m out and have no problem laughing off insecure cunts.
Never put yourself (physically or verbally) into a situation where you have to engage someone for your pride. Get called an asshole? Whatever dude. My mom’s a whore? Whatever bro, fuck off. Brush that shit off.
Which is not to say some kind of self-defense isn’t awesome. It:
-Helps you handle yourself when you are attacked.
-Gives you some confidence so you don’t feel the need to throw down anytime someone insults your ego.
May I just say, Irish and Rob A made this thread. Awesome posts guys.[/quote]
Dude someone calls your mother a whore and you just brush it off? We are different man…
[/quote]
You said you are 24 correct? Now at 24 I was not exactly the most level headed person in the world. I dealt with many situations growing up where I lost my cool and looking back it could have cost me dearly. However, the fact that you seem to have a decent head on your shoulders (you seem fairly well spoken, pursuing an advanced degree), yet you get worked up over someone calling your mother a name? I love my own mother dearly but she taught me when people call names they are just trying to get a reaction. I am pretty sure my mom would be more disappointed than proud if I assaulted someone or got severely injured by fighting someone over name-calling.
I would also say that perhaps the best thing you would get out of training is the DISCIPLINE to walk away.
[quote]Miss Parker wrote:
[quote]WhiteCrow wrote:
[quote]Miss Parker wrote:
Since you mentioned not wanting to back away in front of your female:
Any woman who cares about you will prefer that you not fight. She won’t want to see you suffer in the hospital or visit you in jail.
Fighting is different than self-defense. If she’s in true danger, she’ll want you to defend her (and yourself, of course). That’s different. That’s when there’s no time for talk or escape. Do what you have to do to survive & get out of there immediately.
If she’s standing there yelling, “Kick his ass!” dump her, and there’s no reason to let her down kindly, either.
Read the 2 books Irish mentioned & get some boxing training. Someone mentioned that experiencing taking hits helps, which I agree with. Also, taking a few hits from a seasoned boxer will suddenly give you all kinds of great ideas about how to talk your way out of fights.
[/quote]
It is not about what she think about me in the situation. It is about what I think of myself in that situation.
I will give you an example where guys can relate to, but women not.
You are about to get naked, and about to enter a woman. But you cant get it up, or you come too quickly or whatever but you cant penetrate. She than says “Dont worry honey, it is allright”.
She might mean it. And if she would say any other thing, yes I would dump her.
But would I want a different outcome? Oh yeah. I hope you see the analogy.[/quote]
Yes, I do see the analogy. And I understand about the fact that you would feel better about choosing not to fight if you knew how to fight well. I will confess I used to be short tempered and rude - sort of like one of those little dogs that yaps all the time because it’s all they’ve got, as their bite isn’t much to fear. I had no idea how to defend myself.
Now I’ve been training for 7 years & I’m a Krav Maga instructor. The stuff that used to make me feel threatened or upset just doesn’t bother me any more. I’m certainly not invincible, but at least now I’ve got a shot, and that makes it easy to smile & walk away.
(I’m not implying that you are short-tempered, rude, or don’t know how to defend yourself. I just mean I get how an understanding of conflict gives you the freedom to pass it by.)
You asked about ending it quickly. To me that means once the decision has been made to fight one comes on like a hurricane, avoiding a tendency to sort of take turns “I hit you, now you hit me”. I prefer not to be hit, if I can manage it. It can also mean going straight to more brutal strikes like attacking the throat, eyes, knees, etc. Grabbing a weapon & using it. And then running like hell.
I probably would not walk away if 3 guys were going to hit my friend, but most of my friends are KM instructors. Only one of our friends is likely to get himself into that situation (doesn’t every group have one of those guys?) & we keep him on a pretty tight leash.
Of the 3 training styles you listed I agree that boxing is your wisest choice. It would be interesting to hear how you feel about all this stuff after you’ve been training for a while.
[/quote]
Thanks for your elaborate answer 
[quote]Dre Cappa wrote:
[quote]WhiteCrow wrote:
[quote]rundymc wrote:
The only reason to fight, ever, is to defend yourself from grevious harm and/or death. Playing to your ego is retarded. I’ve never gotten into an altercation I couldn’t back away from and not look like a vagina. Then again, I barely drink when I’m out and have no problem laughing off insecure cunts.
Never put yourself (physically or verbally) into a situation where you have to engage someone for your pride. Get called an asshole? Whatever dude. My mom’s a whore? Whatever bro, fuck off. Brush that shit off.
Which is not to say some kind of self-defense isn’t awesome. It:
-Helps you handle yourself when you are attacked.
-Gives you some confidence so you don’t feel the need to throw down anytime someone insults your ego.
May I just say, Irish and Rob A made this thread. Awesome posts guys.[/quote]
Dude someone calls your mother a whore and you just brush it off? We are different man…
[/quote]
You said you are 24 correct? Now at 24 I was not exactly the most level headed person in the world. I dealt with many situations growing up where I lost my cool and looking back it could have cost me dearly. However, the fact that you seem to have a decent head on your shoulders (you seem fairly well spoken, pursuing an advanced degree), yet you get worked up over someone calling your mother a name? I love my own mother dearly but she taught me when people call names they are just trying to get a reaction. I am pretty sure my mom would be more disappointed than proud if I assaulted someone or got severely injured by fighting someone over name-calling.
I would also say that perhaps the best thing you would get out of training is the DISCIPLINE to walk away.[/quote]
Well thanks for the compliment. I know it sounds primitive and maybe it is, but indeed I would not let that slide. Will I grab his throat? Ofcourse not. Will there be a response from me? Definetely.
I know that in the grand scheme of things, things like getting profanities about your mother is not a big deal. In an ideal world you would shrug it off. But that is pure logic talking.
And in that moment there is a lot more…
WhiteCrow,
I am going to respond to several of your posts. I do not know how to merge multiple posts into one post so this will be a bit scattered.
You are studying to be a lawyer/jurist/barrister. That is a professional degree. I am completely ignorant of law in the Netherlands, and you are of course the opposite being in pursuit of your degree. I am not trying to speak for FightinIrish, but I know in the US that a felony conviction of any sort can hold you back in professional careers. It may even make you ineligible for certain jobs. Irish alluded to the uncertainty that comes with violence. The legal ramifications of tuning someone up, even in consensual combat, are very real in this country. I suspect they are in yours as well.
Your original post related a situation where it is my opinion there was nothing to be gained in the external world with violence. You were not under immediate attack; you were invited to a fight. You declined. Yes you were pushed, but as Irish pointed out the time to act like that was a real attack, and not an invitation, was prior to shoving back. Shit like this is very much about establishing dominance in a social group.
You do not know the guy; his rank in relation to yours ceases to be of value at the end of the night. You brought your girlfriend to the party, so it is not like you needed to act big to hook up (and really avoid the women who like to see you fight as Miss Parker elaborated on). Basically the normal benefits of this whole dominance game were unavailable to you, no social structure to advance in, no extra or additional sexual partners, nothing. NOTHING BUT DRAWBACKS. Even if you could have crushed him in a blink of an eye, you would stand to gain nothing by doing so.
Even if viewed through a completely amoral, relativist lens I think you did the right thing in declining. If you fight you may be/ probably will get banged up. You may catch a charge, maybe even a body. There are a ton of witnesses. You do not know him or his friends and whether they perceive you as a “hard man”, alpha or something else has little bearing on your life now. Your friends are still your friends. You went home with the same girl you brought. If you knock him out do you at least get to take his watch? If you dominate him do you get to take possession of all of his hale livestock and attractive womenfolk, or since I am a native of Pennsylvania all of his attractive livestock and hale womenfolk? No. Then why fuckin’ fight?
The only consequence is that maybe you are judging yourself, and finding yourself lacking for not fighting. That is ego, and in this case it is not your friend. I will reiterate that a few amateur boxing matches will likely inoculate you against this. When you wrote that “Even knowing that I would be able to kick someone’s ass would greatly reduce the need to punch said guy, if you understand what I mean?” you are alluding to the effects of building real confidence that comes from training in combat sports/legitimate martial arts. There is no substitute. This board is great for advice to help you start and keep you on that path.
You have since made some other examples where clearly violence, is the right answer. These are hypotheticals. It has been my experience that often people who feel they were not "braveâ?? in the face of violence in the past like to come up with ways they might be forced to be “brave” in the future. If this is happening in your case, be cognizant of it. If you start acting based on emotions rather realities, you give up the very ability you are chasing, the ability to think calmly and respond appropriately when threatened.
Side Note: Even if you are adamant this does not apply to you, look for it in others. The ability to recognize and deal with/capitalize on this phenomena in others will be a great advantage to you in professional dealings (especially in your soon to be profession) and the ability to recognize and minimize its effects in yourself may help you keep some friendships and prevent some insults that might otherwise occur.
Your examples about being raped at gunpoint or having to defend a friend from being beaten by a crowd are much different cases than what actually occurred at the party. In both law allows the use of force, even potentially lethal force. These are very much “run what you brung” cases and the answer of what I would do is “As much as I am capable, as best as I am capable, for as long as I am still capable.” When Irish brought up the “Twenty Ninja” attack it is in reference to hypotheticals such as these. If violence is legitimately the best or only option, take the best option. The thing is, as Irish pointed out far better than I have, violence is seldom the only option.
You referenced impotence as how this situation made you feel. (An Aside: The fact that you made a point of using a “guys can relate, but women canâ??t” example to Miss Parker and the fact rougevampire put quotes around woman when referencing her in another thread is hilarious to me. I am of course assuming Miss Parker is in real life the very attractive women in her avatar. ) That tells me that ego is the right term for it, not honor. Few places would be as dangerous for your girlfriend as a party where a fight just jumped off. Refusing to put her in that position is the opposite of emasculating.
Regards,
Robert A
^^ ballin post Robert.
[quote]Miss Parker wrote:
[quote]WhiteCrow wrote:
[quote]Miss Parker wrote:
Since you mentioned not wanting to back away in front of your female:
Any woman who cares about you will prefer that you not fight. She won’t want to see you suffer in the hospital or visit you in jail.
Fighting is different than self-defense. If she’s in true danger, she’ll want you to defend her (and yourself, of course). That’s different. That’s when there’s no time for talk or escape. Do what you have to do to survive & get out of there immediately.
If she’s standing there yelling, “Kick his ass!” dump her, and there’s no reason to let her down kindly, either.
Read the 2 books Irish mentioned & get some boxing training. Someone mentioned that experiencing taking hits helps, which I agree with. Also, taking a few hits from a seasoned boxer will suddenly give you all kinds of great ideas about how to talk your way out of fights.
[/quote]
It is not about what she think about me in the situation. It is about what I think of myself in that situation.
I will give you an example where guys can relate to, but women not.
You are about to get naked, and about to enter a woman. But you cant get it up, or you come too quickly or whatever but you cant penetrate. She than says “Dont worry honey, it is allright”.
She might mean it. And if she would say any other thing, yes I would dump her.
But would I want a different outcome? Oh yeah. I hope you see the analogy.[/quote]
Yes, I do see the analogy. And I understand about the fact that you would feel better about choosing not to fight if you knew how to fight well. I will confess I used to be short tempered and rude - sort of like one of those little dogs that yaps all the time because it’s all they’ve got, as their bite isn’t much to fear. I had no idea how to defend myself.
Now I’ve been training for 7 years & I’m a Krav Maga instructor. The stuff that used to make me feel threatened or upset just doesn’t bother me any more. I’m certainly not invincible, but at least now I’ve got a shot, and that makes it easy to smile & walk away.
(I’m not implying that you are short-tempered, rude, or don’t know how to defend yourself. I just mean I get how an understanding of conflict gives you the freedom to pass it by.)
You asked about ending it quickly. To me that means once the decision has been made to fight one comes on like a hurricane, avoiding a tendency to sort of take turns “I hit you, now you hit me”. I prefer not to be hit, if I can manage it. It can also mean going straight to more brutal strikes like attacking the throat, eyes, knees, etc. Grabbing a weapon & using it. And then running like hell.
I probably would not walk away if 3 guys were going to hit my friend, but most of my friends are KM instructors. Only one of our friends is likely to get himself into that situation (doesn’t every group have one of those guys?) & we keep him on a pretty tight leash.
Of the 3 training styles you listed I agree that boxing is your wisest choice. It would be interesting to hear how you feel about all this stuff after you’ve been training for a while.
[/quote]
Totally off topic, just happy to see another Krav Maga practitioner on here.
[quote]WhiteCrow wrote:
[quote]rundymc wrote:
The only reason to fight, ever, is to defend yourself from grevious harm and/or death. Playing to your ego is retarded. I’ve never gotten into an altercation I couldn’t back away from and not look like a vagina. Then again, I barely drink when I’m out and have no problem laughing off insecure cunts.
Never put yourself (physically or verbally) into a situation where you have to engage someone for your pride. Get called an asshole? Whatever dude. My mom’s a whore? Whatever bro, fuck off. Brush that shit off.
Which is not to say some kind of self-defense isn’t awesome. It:
-Helps you handle yourself when you are attacked.
-Gives you some confidence so you don’t feel the need to throw down anytime someone insults your ego.
May I just say, Irish and Rob A made this thread. Awesome posts guys.[/quote]
Dude someone calls your mother a whore and you just brush it off? We are different man…
[/quote]
If something like that is what sets you off and makes you fight, you’re going to get what’s coming to you.
I can see from your posts that this thread is no longer worth my time.
I have one piece of advice to offer, but I believe it pertinent: If you get in a fight, and there is any chance that the law would not take your side, be the one to contact the authorities first. It’s amazing what this does for your case. When I was a minor I defended myself and my brother with force against a college student. Though I was not the first one to use physical force, I was the first to throw a blow. The college student called the police before I did, and this made all the difference in the world for how he appeared to the police and in court. In the end, I recieved the assault charge, and he avoided assault upon a minor, with a possible attempted kidnapping charge on the side.
Plus I agree with most of what has been said above. Boxing is wonderfully practical, and great for body and soul.
[quote]WhiteCrow wrote:
I would like to ask everyone a question:
When you see three guys starting to hit a friend of yours, would you walk away? It is the safe thing to do…?[/quote]
27 ninjas with machine guns.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]WhiteCrow wrote:
I would like to ask everyone a question:
When you see three guys starting to hit a friend of yours, would you walk away? It is the safe thing to do…?[/quote]
27 ninjas with machine guns. [/quote]
Obviously you are a dead man Irish. There are always MORE than 27 ninjas w/ machine guns. They are sneaky. That’s how they get ya.
[quote]WhiteCrow wrote:
Dude someone calls your mother a whore and you just brush it off? We are different man…
[/quote]
your 24 im 20 and im capable of making wiser decisions than you. there is nothing some one can say to goad me into violence its simply not worth it. if some one wants to chirp let them who cares your friends wont feel different about you, no one who matters will. you can usually just make the verbally aggressive person look stupid by being smarter (see the thread were the dude tried to call out irish over the internet for an example)
i work in a night club and i see this stupid shit develop all the time i my self have taken sucker shots defusing these situations. even then keeping a cool head and evaluating the situation keeps you safe. from what your saying about not brushing off an insult your the kind of meat headed dick that makes me ashamed to be lumped into the same demographic of young male student. your why i dont go out, if i wanted to hang out around monkeys id go to the zoo
[quote]WhiteCrow wrote:
I would like to ask everyone a question:
When you see three guys starting to hit a friend of yours, would you walk away? It is the safe thing to do…?[/quote]
Depends on how strong the friend is. If they can handle themselves, cool. I’d just call the police. Now if my friend is a weakling…
Two years ago, a girl friend got the shit beaten out of her in a nightclub toilets by two other girls. The reason? My friend spilled her drink on their shoes and dress while dancing. Even though she apologised, the two girls got mad and shouted abuse at her. One of them began to shove her around until I intervene and pulled my friend away. She’s that girlie type of woman who would never hurt a fly. She hates violence and wouldn’t even take a boxing or self defence class for her own benefit.
My other two girlfriends and me comforted her and we went on with our dancing. She was still shaken and went to the restroom. Until this day, I still regret not going with her. When we noticed she was gone for a while, I went after her to see if she was okay. When I got there, the two bitches from the dancefloor were kicking and punching her in one of the cubicles. I didn’t walk away…
These days, I always try to stay away from fights. Some people would irritate me but I tend to keep my cool or laugh at their face, which seems to irritate them even more. So I just walk away.
Even self-defence doesn’t even make any sense to me. If you defend yourself from someone else and end up hurting them, you’re screwed.
When I used to train Krav, our instructor would demonstrate some brutal techniques and then usually add, ‘think about the CCTVs, guys! Think about it!’
Thanks, Robert A. That’s me in the pic, I’m a real girl.
[quote]WhiteCrow wrote:
I would like to ask everyone a question:
When you see three guys starting to hit a friend of yours, would you walk away? It is the safe thing to do…?[/quote]
If it’s a friend, and not an acquaintance, yes I’d dance. If it was substantially more than three guys, I’d call the cops and try to get help. If it was, say, my brother or something I probably would jump in regardless.
[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
When I used to train Krav…
[/quote]
Could you get any more badass?? After everything you are already are good at, you do martial arts–and krav especially–on top of it?
I am in love…
[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
When I used to train Krav, our instructor would demonstrate some brutal techniques and then usually add, ‘think about the CCTVs, guys! Think about it!’
[/quote]
I’ve noticed this. Sometimes the techniques they teach are just beyond what is called for. It’s going to be hard convincing a jury that you needed to rip the eye out of the socket even though it was a consensual fight… much more time needs to be focused on the bigger picture, on what to use when.
[quote]westdale warrior wrote:
[quote]WhiteCrow wrote:
Dude someone calls your mother a whore and you just brush it off? We are different man…
[/quote]
your 24 im 20 and im capable of making wiser decisions than you. there is nothing some one can say to goad me into violence its simply not worth it. if some one wants to chirp let them who cares your friends wont feel different about you, no one who matters will. you can usually just make the verbally aggressive person look stupid by being smarter (see the thread were the dude tried to call out irish over the internet for an example)
i work in a night club and i see this stupid shit develop all the time i my self have taken sucker shots defusing these situations. even then keeping a cool head and evaluating the situation keeps you safe. from what your saying about not brushing off an insult your the kind of meat headed dick that makes me ashamed to be lumped into the same demographic of young male student. your why i dont go out, if i wanted to hang out around monkeys id go to the zoo[/quote]
You’re a smart kid.
[quote]Silo101 wrote:
If what youre asking is how to fight in a street situation you must realize how broad the topic is and that you won’t get much from reading what to do. Im going to start by asking you if knowing what to do and being able to do it are the same? If someone on here told you “first jab and then…” or whatever, would you be able to execute that? Il give you your answer. No.
Again Im going to repeat that what youre asking is… hard to answer… Every situation is unique.
How is he standing, posture- ie. is he balanced or could he be pushed over/tripped? Where is he standing in relation to fixed objects, like a wall or bar? What is the proximity of his friends? Your friends? Do you have friends there? Does he? Are they standing somewhere behind you?
I know you specified one to one combat but in reality with a situation like this thats not gonna happen.
Also you were thinking: “How should I start? Where should I hit?” First off why would you make the first move? Especialy if he is inviting you to (which btw is just him trying to build up confidence or psyching himself up). Rather wait if the idiot has the balls to make a lunge at you and you wont even have to worry about closing the gap. If he doesn’t… first prize. No fight. PS. im not saying act like a bitch just act calm and speak firmly and authoritively (none of the green street holligan bouncing up and down or egging him on bullshit).
Secondly, thinking about stuff like that is not going to help you. Real life fights are not Steven Seagal movies. Youre never going to go into a street fight with a choreographed “fight plan”. Its all instinctual as TommyGunz said and often the simpler the better. If you want to get better at this kind of fighting without experiencing real fights more often then simple stuff like boxing will help the most. At least then you can stick to basics and move/punch well.
Ultimately youre going to have to make a choice and stick to it. If you decide that its going to be a fight for whatever reason then commit to it wholeheartedly. Its not going to be complicated. It won’t happen the way you imagine it will retrospectively. You will probably get hurt. You have to accept that.
While we are on the topic, you may think that you cant back down because your mates are there and your gf is there or because you are not a wuss. Fair enough. But there are loads of ways to avoid the fight while still looking like you won the confrontation.
The guy pushed you and you pushed him back? What shit is that? Smile, apologise for bumping into him and offer to buy him a drink. Trust me your gf won’t think any less of you. Is he an asshole? Yea. But why make it your problem. If he pushes the matter just tell him straight “Look, Im not looking for a fight, but if you are, stop talking I dont have all night. And don’t expect a schoolboy brawl either.”
while we are on the topic give this a read and you will probably forget all about your fight fantasies.
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/repercussions.htm[/quote]
Bad ass link. I’m not sure why there’s 2 more pages after that link for the thread.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Or, if you’re a good boxer and you’re reputation is known, someone who wants to get you will just wait for you to walk to your car and then beat you with a bat.[/quote]
My great uncle died this way. Supposedly he was a damn good boxer. It was over in England. My dad worked over there for a while as well. He remembered two guys getting in a fight over girlfriends. The girls burst out crying almost immediately. They simply could not understand the viciousness.
Whenever the Irish went abroad, they turned into nasty, low-life scum.
Ain’t that right Irish 