[quote]Robert A wrote:
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
In regards to pushing, obviously size is going to make a difference (a 100 lb woman is not going to send a 300 lb man flying backwards through the air with a push), but there are methods of pushing which most average sized men could make work effectively on other average sized men (even if they were larger).
We have a technique which we call an “impact push” (which we actually use to teach people proper body positioning for throwing straight line punches) which generates a tremendous amount of linear force (especially if you add footwork and body lean into it), can be launched fairly non telegraphically from a “I don’t want any problems” position, and when executed correctly can allow even smaller individuals to literally launch larger people backwards. Because of the “impact” aspect, it can also act much like a double palm smash to the torso so it can knock the wind out of someone as well as push them over.
Environmental factors would also play a significant role. Maybe if you and your would be attacker are in the middle of an abandoned parking lot they might just get thrown backwards and not actually fall over. But, if you can position them so that there is some sort of low line obstacle behind them (bench, curb, front end of a car, low wall, etc…), there is a much higher chance that they will trip over this obstacle and wind up going down. Hopefully giving you enough of a head start to be able to flee the scene.
I agree though that once you engage with such a technique, the fight is on. So, I would recommend trying to use verbal and postural self defense tactics to try to never let it become physical or escalate. None the less, a push could be a very effective tool to gain distance and escape should it become clear that physical violence is unavoidable.[/quote]
While I don’t necessarily disagree with the premise of this, if I’m going to get in that deep and make an aggressive move, I’m gonna hit the fucker.
I’m 5’7" man, I don’t have time to fuck around trying to push some dude when I know that I pop him twice and he’s goin down and I can bug out. [/quote]
I’m definitely not saying that punching is a poor choice. Just saying that if you know how to do it, a good push can be pretty effective too. And at 5’7" you’re easily big enough to make an “impact push” work, unless maybe you were fighting some huge 300 lb defensive lineman (in which case your punches might be equally as ineffective).[/quote]
I may be having trouble tracking this discussion. I think think FightinIrish and Sentoguy are talking about different things.
It seemed to me that GorillaMon was espousing basically to push harder and posture bigger as a way of handling these things (the I push you, you push me, we jaw at each other, ok now everyone sees that we are tough, push some more, someone throws a punch…). Am I correct?
Basically the answer to a push is, fuck it shove 'em back. Basically what the OP did, but try to be big and strong about it. That is what I thought Irish was railing against, and I am on that page. Or was that not what GorillaMon meant?
I am reading what Sento wrote about using a push, or in this case an “impact push” (which I think is what I might term a drive, basically using a “drop step” to slam your structure into someone at an angle to disrupt their balance and also hurt/injure) to take away someones balance as part of the “fights on”. I am getting this from his mention of using the environment, his likening it to a double palm strike, and his referrance to straight punch mechanics. Am I correct here Sentoguy? This push isn’t a prove your strong thing? It is an assault on someone’s balance, and hence an attack on their ability to be effective with offense or defense? Now, perhaps I am reading too much of my own opinion in your post, but I think I am also agreeing with you. I might go further and say, depending on what you push someone into (traffic, a building, a store front window, any hard object that hits their head, ect.), or off of (tops of hills, tops of stairs, ect.) as push/shove/drive may be the most damaging thing you can do at the moment.
So, am I following any of this correctly, or am I too coffee deficient to understand? (Could be both.)
Regards,
Robert A[/quote]
Yeah, you’re pretty much getting what I am saying. This is not a “who’s tougher” type of back and forth pushing like you see so many fights start with. This is an “ok, you’ve expressed the ability, intent, and means to do me personal harm, have ignored my attempts to try to talk you out of fighting, and I now want to put space between us, possibly do damage to you, and hopefully disable your ability to launch an offense or pursue me should I flee” attack.
And yes, the stakes/level of force could be raised substantially depending on what you pushed someone into (moving traffic, down stairs, or through a plate glass window could be potentially fatal). In most cases though, that would probably be seen as excessive force. Just pushing them back, hopefully over something, and possibly knocking the wind out of them in order to buy space/time to flee the scene would be a better choice in lower force situations.
