Ok…due to the fact that I now have to lift in the mudroom/front porch, I’ve had to remove the “stomp” from my oly lifts. If I do stomp the GF complains and the folks in the connecting apt. are frightened by the banging and shaking of the house.
Now, I know I should not care and stomp away to my hearts content BUT, I’ve found that I’ve got a lot more, uh, “zip in my dip” with both the clean and snatch by going to triple extension and then dipping under the bar and catching it without stomping. In fact, I was training at a proper facility the other day and even though I was on a platform I had more success with my power snatch without a stomp. It seems as though the stomp was like a physical distraction/errant use of energy and I can focus on the catch phase more and therefore complete the lift more efficiently.
Don’t get me wrong, I understand the stomp is part of the sequence but I’m now wondering if/why I should work the stomp back in when I get back to a proper facility.
Dude, there is no triple extension, there is onlyt he ‘double knee bend’ when you do the 1st and 2nd pulls PROPERLY.
1st pull, knee bends
2nd pull, the act of your hips going up and in will force your knees to bend ‘again’ hence ‘double knee bend’. You do not magically extend for a ‘3rd’ time.
Yes the longer yous tay in contact with the ground the more power you can exert. A few top lifters come off the floor but most generally don’t. The higher you come off the floor you’ll crash and you’ll have yoru weight and the bars weight crash down on your joints It’s much harder to be stable if you jump off the floor a lot.
But at the end a bit of a jump is okay, AS LONG AS YOU DO NOT DO FLUTTER KICKS (where your ankles go backwrads towards your hamstrings!!!)
[quote]Koing wrote:
But at the end a bit of a jump is okay, AS LONG AS YOU DO NOT DO FLUTTER KICKS (where your ankles go backwrads towards your hamstrings!!!)
[/quote]
Unless you’re Vanev, then it’s OK. And awesome.
Thanks for the reply Koing, I suppose I was using “triple extension” in the athletic sense-ankles, knees and hips in extension at the end of the 2nd pull before the dip for the catch.
No reason to work it back in, since its not ‘necessary’. I got rid of the stomp during my snatches and felt it helped my efficiency since I could shift my feet and get faster tighter.
[quote]Koing wrote:
Dude, there is no triple extension, there is onlyt he ‘double knee bend’ when you do the 1st and 2nd pulls PROPERLY.
1st pull, knee bends
2nd pull, the act of your hips going up and in will force your knees to bend ‘again’ hence ‘double knee bend’. You do not magically extend for a ‘3rd’ time.
Yes the longer yous tay in contact with the ground the more power you can exert. A few top lifters come off the floor but most generally don’t. The higher you come off the floor you’ll crash and you’ll have yoru weight and the bars weight crash down on your joints It’s much harder to be stable if you jump off the floor a lot.
But at the end a bit of a jump is okay, AS LONG AS YOU DO NOT DO FLUTTER KICKS (where your ankles go backwrads towards your hamstrings!!!)
Good stuff man!
Koing[/quote]
I’ve read some things about the death of the triple extension. Personally, I still think that a triple extension with a powerful shrug at the end is worthwhile to do. Then again, I’m a Masters lifter, which means I’m old and slow. Other than that, I agree with Koing. Whether you triple extend or do something else, stomping on the ground is unnecessary and counterproductive. My coaches say that you want to break contact with the ground and move your feet out slightly to get a more stable base to receive the bar. But this is a small movement off of the ground - it’s not a jump and there is certainly no need to stomp your feet back into place.
Does anyone know how, why, or from where the stomp originated? Lot’s of lifters stomp and do, as Koing describes, “flutter kicks” - I call them donkey kicks, but it’s the same thing where your heels come up and kick your ass - but this is highly inefficient lifting. I suspect it comes from some dumbass high school football coach trying to teach kids to power clean. When you and the bar are floating in the air in a low earth orbit, you cannot exert any force to move the bar up nor can you exert force to pull yourself down. The less time spent in the air the better.
I think I’ll look back over some old articles here to see if I can find where the stomp was introduced as part of the sequence. I do remember (vaguely) that for athleteic purposes the stomp was supposed to help with the “quickness”-fast stomping=fast feet or something.
The stomp is an extension of the idea of “jumping” that is taught (incorrectly IMO) by coaches that don’t entirely understand Olympic lifting movements (and many, many USAW coaches). Many sport coaches want olympic lifts, and their variations, to increase the vertical jumping ability of their athletes–and in doing so, "over"coach that aspect of the lift.
Many coaches have taken a cursory look at Oly lifters and see their feet airborne at the top of the lift (just after finishing the final pull) and assume that they are jumping. What they don’t understand is that the majority of Oly lifters begin their initial pull with a narrower stance and catch the bar in a wider stance in order to squat under it. The feet are only airborne for the simple reason that they are sliding to the side to widen the stance…not to jump due to “triple extension”, explosive movement, or enhance athletic qualities.
The “stomp” that many feel is necessary is also a misunderstanding due to unfamiliarity with the lifts themselves. Almost everyone has seen the Ironmind clip of Dimas training and I have heard many, many commments about how his feet sound like a gunshot when performing a split (or power jerk). Most misinterpret the sound that oly lifting shoes make on plywood flooring as something that should be a immulated while hang cleaning in tennis shoes.
Koing: I had quite a discussion with a senior USAW coach regarding the lack of triple extension being taught by many Euro and Asian countries. He became visibly angry while “defending” his (their) version of teaching the lifts…I wasn’t looking for a defense, only a clarification regarding what he thought about a different style of teaching.
[quote]Winger11 wrote:
I think I’ll look back over some old articles here to see if I can find where the stomp was introduced as part of the sequence. I do remember (vaguely) that for athleteic purposes the stomp was supposed to help with the “quickness”-fast stomping=fast feet or something.
Looking into it further.
Thanks for the input all…[/quote]
If you go way back in the T-Nation archives you’ll find articles by John Davies, aka Coach Davies, aka The Renegade. He was a proponent of the stomp for athletic purposes, but he never did fully give his reasoning for it. At any rate, it is useless even for athletic purposes. I think Deadgame made some good points that trying to teach a stomp is based on ignorance. If you watch lifters who wear the more expensive lifting shoes with a wooden sole, a wooden sole making contact on a wooden platform in a gym that echoes is going to make a loud noise even if the lifter comes down without any intentional stomp. I see this in my gym all the time. The guys wearing the Adidas shoes make lots of noise. I wear cheaper weightlifting shoes with a hard rubber sole and I make way less noise than the other guys. The other day one of the coaches was fooling around and decided to power clean and jerk 90 kg in running shoes. And even with moving his feet out and “landing” back on a wooden platform, the lift was virtually silent. That should tell you something.
Thanks MTB for that reminder. Now that I bend my mind to it I was reading a lot of Davies articles while learning to clean (ahem) back in the day. I also just looked up an article from Coach Thibs v 1.0 from back in his Olympic lifter days: “Money Exercises”, which was very influential for me at the time as well. In most of the pictures of the power clean and snatch his guys are definitely a few inches off the ground. There seems to be a bit of that “flutter kick” in the pics as well. However, the article was more along the lines of explosive training for athletes as opposed to training in a manner that will lead to heavy attempts at cleans or snatches. Not sure if that’s a valid defense for me learning a lift incorrectly but that’s what I was working off when I started incorporating the lifts into my training on a regular basis.
Thanks again for everyone’s input…still sifting though the archives…
Feet will come off the ground a bit to shuffle out to be a better squat position, thats natural and fine. It’s the excess donky kick/ flutter kicks that is needless.
Very few lifters lift big weights and do this. Vanev is the exception but he’s a freak show that can C&J WR’s like it.
[quote]Koing wrote:
But at the end a bit of a jump is okay, AS LONG AS YOU DO NOT DO FLUTTER KICKS (where your ankles go backwrads towards your hamstrings!!!)
[/quote]
Unless you’re Vanev, then it’s OK. And awesome.[/quote]
I think Vanev is my favorite lifter of all time. That guy was a warrior.
[quote]Koing wrote:
But at the end a bit of a jump is okay, AS LONG AS YOU DO NOT DO FLUTTER KICKS (where your ankles go backwrads towards your hamstrings!!!)
[/quote]
Unless you’re Vanev, then it’s OK. And awesome.[/quote]
I think Vanev is my favorite lifter of all time. That guy was a warrior.
[/quote]
Vanev had such aggression and attack on the bar. He’d always jerk it in front and just impossibly hold it out there! CRAZY!