Still Cutting and Getting Worried

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
1

OK been on a cutting phase (stretch for lack of a better euphemism) since September.

Down from 28% BF and 192lbs to 17% BF and 162 lbs

Feel great.

BUT - I now have slowed in weight and BF loss, but as I do hit the last 10lbs I have to go - I feel, well, small…

LBM is at about 136lbs, so its not huge by any stretch - I just wonder what it will be like to pack it back on again. I have not ever had a chance to build on a lean platform before so I never really knew how much I put on was LBM and fat.

Now I will be in much better control - but I am looking for some moral booster here - how will I know I will be able to pack it on again, once I head down to 152lbs, that’s pretty god-d*mn lean…

I am well past newbie level in terms of the last 3 years of training - but I never paid much attention to diet until the last year

Meta

2

not sure how tall you are, so its hard to have perspective on your weight.

I went from 322 pounds to 196.

I then relaxed a little, went up to maintenance, and kept my weight under 200 for a while…to let my body adapt and stop panicing!

January 1st i started mass gaining again.

I felt small too, and i felt like my skin didnt fit me properly.

24 of february im up to 211 pounds, whilst my waist, navel waist, neck and hips are all the same as they were at 196.

on this basis i know its mostly muscle, water and glycogen (not fat).

I feel much less emaciated than i was before, and generally healthier.

my advice to you is to start shooting for strength gains now. dont worry about what you look like, what you weigh, etc.

instead focus on becoming stronger and the muscle will follow.

(i find that its hard to go from fat loss and the very noticeable gains in a short period of time - to slow muscle gains)

try stronglifts.com and go from there.

noticing the weekly strength gains will quickly banish any feelings of smallness.

3

I went to 170 pounds and looked like a toothpick; however, looking at the medical association recommendation for my hieght; i still had another 10 pounds to lose which would of made me look like probably a starvation picture.

I agree with previous poster on almost everything including just focusing on getting stronger. Focusing on getting stronger will help get much larger in the long term; please note that if you continue trying to lose wieght; you will probably be losing muscle mass or negating any future muscle gains you might have otherwise achieved. I would not go by the scale anymore as you might start gaining wieght from increased muscle mass which might send the wrong signal that you need to start losing again- but the wieght you lose will be muscle… main thing is its best not to take things to extreme with regard to fat loss.

4

[quote]chutec wrote:
not sure how tall you are, so its hard to have perspective on your weight.

I went from 322 pounds to 196.

I then relaxed a little, went up to maintenance, and kept my weight under 200 for a while…to let my body adapt and stop panicing!

January 1st i started mass gaining again.

I felt small too, and i felt like my skin didnt fit me properly.

24 of february im up to 211 pounds, whilst my waist, navel waist, neck and hips are all the same as they were at 196.

on this basis i know its mostly muscle, water and glycogen (not fat).

I feel much less emaciated than i was before, and generally healthier.

my advice to you is to start shooting for strength gains now. dont worry about what you look like, what you weigh, etc.

instead focus on becoming stronger and the muscle will follow.

(i find that its hard to go from fat loss and the very noticeable gains in a short period of time - to slow muscle gains)

try stronglifts.com and go from there.

noticing the weekly strength gains will quickly banish any feelings of smallness.[/quote]

Thanks I am 5ft, 6 in.

I wanted to head the advice of CT and others on the board to get to 10% before turning it around. Which now is only another 10 to go, but I guess I can take it slow and try to keep the mass up, but the BF down to 10.

I do feel great right now, except for body image…

5

[quote]metamorphisis wrote:

Thanks I am 5ft, 6 in.

I wanted to head the advice of CT and others on the board to get to 10% before turning it around. Which now is only another 10 to go, but I guess I can take it slow and try to keep the mass up, but the BF down to 10.

I do feel great right now, except for body image…
[/quote]

Dude, we just had a debate about this. CT isn’t telling people like you to drop to 10% body fat before gaining anything.

your lean body mass is about equal to someone who has never lifted a weight before. That is why you look small…YOU ARE.

6

[quote]Professor X wrote:
metamorphisis wrote:

Thanks I am 5ft, 6 in.

I wanted to head the advice of CT and others on the board to get to 10% before turning it around. Which now is only another 10 to go, but I guess I can take it slow and try to keep the mass up, but the BF down to 10.

I do feel great right now, except for body image…

Dude, we just had a debate about this. CT isn’t telling people like you to drop to 10% body fat before gaining anything.

your lean body mass is about equal to someone who has never lifted a weight before. That is why you look small…YOU ARE.[/quote]

For someone who does 245 x 8 squats, 265 bench (1RM) and pulls 150lbs wide lat by 10 - I would not say I have not lifted a weight. I certainly have - I guess I am just out of gas in my quest here looking for a degree of confidence in my plans.

Where would you say I turn it around then - 12%, 14% ?

7

[quote]metamorphisis wrote:
Professor X wrote:
metamorphisis wrote:

Thanks I am 5ft, 6 in.

I wanted to head the advice of CT and others on the board to get to 10% before turning it around. Which now is only another 10 to go, but I guess I can take it slow and try to keep the mass up, but the BF down to 10.

I do feel great right now, except for body image…

Dude, we just had a debate about this. CT isn’t telling people like you to drop to 10% body fat before gaining anything.

your lean body mass is about equal to someone who has never lifted a weight before. That is why you look small…YOU ARE.

For someone who does 245 x 8 squats, 265 bench (1RM) and pulls 150lbs wide lat by 10 - I would not say I have not lifted a weight. I certainly have - I guess I am just out of gas in my quest here looking for a degree of confidence in my plans.

Where would you say I turn it around then - 12%, 14% ?

[/quote]

How about right now?

I don’t care what you claim to lift. You still have LESS than 135lbs of lean body mass on you and that isn’t much at all.

No one with such minimal amounts of muscle mass should be this concerned with dieting down to near single digits. If you actually had some muscle on you, you would appear leaner even at higher body fat percentages.

You are setting yourself up for a lack of progress.

8

OK - sound advice - I guess this comes down to either hitting a decent healthy BF level and slowly coming back up, or going to town (hard iron, and lots of calories), then cutting back down, which in my experience will get me 1lb lbm for 4lbs of fat.

I think with only 10lbs left to get to 10% I will keep on going and enjoy the cardio / overall energy benefits I have.

Then take my time in years stacking it back on to 175 at 12% - that’s my overall goal.

Remember - this is a guy who has been 25% to 28% and thought he was ‘big’. I am treading very new ground here personally.

9

[quote]metamorphisis wrote:

Then take my time in years stacking it back on to 175 at 12% - that’s my overall goal.

[/quote]

I am still waiting on even one of you guys who claims they will “gain slowly” to come back here and show us how that has worked out for you. I’ve never seen even one who actually impressed anyone with their gains in muscle mass. You don’t have forever to make progress. You would do better to take advantage of youth while you still have it.

10

i definitely dont think u should wait till u get down to 10% bf to turn it around

u say ur cutting… but what do u mean by this … what kind of diet specifically are u following

11

[quote]Professor X wrote:
metamorphisis wrote:

Then take my time in years stacking it back on to 175 at 12% - that’s my overall goal.

I am still waiting on even one of you guys who claims they will “gain slowly” to come back here and show us how that has worked out for you. I’ve never seen even one who actually impressed anyone with their gains in muscle mass. You don’t have forever to make progress. You would do better to take advantage of youth while you still have it.[/quote]

Prof X, just let me say that yours is the best advice i have yet to read on this site. thanks for enlightening those who think they must be below 10%bf at all times.

12

OK this was the article I was referring to re CT. Maybe I read it wrong. Set me right here…

CT in referring to his transformation

“Over the past few years I’ve been able to reach much lower body fat levels (as low as 3 to 4%) while adding a significant amount of muscle mass. And, except for one foray into the world of “bulking,” I never exceeded 9-10% body fat over the past three years, more often than not staying at 8% or less.”
http://www.T-Nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1615551

RE what my diet is - its set at 1960 cals, 60 to 90g fat, 110g carb, 180g protein. Roughly

I focus on keeping the protein at least by body weight, sometimes higher on lifting days.

Fat is minimally 60g.

Carbs no more than 110g (thats the tough one)

Workout is heavy upper, then heavy lower, then overall body - separated by one day each, with one or two days of cardio in the week.

Let me turn this one around - what amount of LBM should a 5ft, 6in 43 yr old hit before he begins to get comfortable with his proportions.

I had 175 at 12% as my overall goal.

13

[quote]Professor X wrote:
metamorphisis wrote:

Then take my time in years stacking it back on to 175 at 12% - that’s my overall goal.

I am still waiting on even one of you guys who claims they will “gain slowly” to come back here and show us how that has worked out for you. I’ve never seen even one who actually impressed anyone with their gains in muscle mass. You don’t have forever to make progress. You would do better to take advantage of youth while you still have it.[/quote]

If only more young guys would get this before it’s too late and there is no going back and starting over.

14

[quote]metamorphisis wrote:
OK this was the article I was referring to re CT. Maybe I read it wrong. Set me right here…

CT in referring to his transformation

“Over the past few years I’ve been able to reach much lower body fat levels (as low as 3 to 4%) while adding a significant amount of muscle mass. And, except for one foray into the world of “bulking,” I never exceeded 9-10% body fat over the past three years, more often than not staying at 8% or less.”
http://www.T-Nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1615551

RE what my diet is - its set at 1960 cals, 60 to 90g fat, 110g carb, 180g protein. Roughly

I focus on keeping the protein at least by body weight, sometimes higher on lifting days.

Fat is minimally 60g.

Carbs no more than 110g (thats the tough one)

Workout is heavy upper, then heavy lower, then overall body - separated by one day each, with one or two days of cardio in the week.

Let me turn this one around - what amount of LBM should a 5ft, 6in 43 yr old hit before he begins to get comfortable with his proportions.

I had 175 at 12% as my overall goal.

[/quote]

Go here:
http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1949269

We have already had this discussion. It was already clear that the wrong people were reading that article and using it wrong. that is why that debate broke out.

The only people who act like they can’t see it are the authors themselves.

15

Also, at 43, you need to be doing everything in your power to make any gains possible. Your age is already working against you and you are now compounding this by thinking that muscle gains are so easily accrued that you have the option of doing so slowly over the course of years.

You couldn’t be more mistaken if you tried.

16

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Also, at 43, you need to be doing everything in your power to make any gains possible. Your age is already working against you and you are now compounding this by thinking that muscle gains are so easily accrued that you have the option of doing so slowly over the course of years.

You couldn’t be more mistaken if you tried.[/quote]

Wow - eye opening - you are right - I can gain now, cut later when real gains are much harder.

Thanks

17

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Dude, we just had a debate about this. CT isn’t telling people like you to drop to 10% body fat before gaining anything.

your lean body mass is about equal to someone who has never lifted a weight before. That is why you look small…YOU ARE.[/quote]

I agree with PX… to give you an example, my ex-girlfriend competed in bodybuilding. She was 100% natural and in contest shape she was around 138lbs on 5’4’‘. Normally we can estimate that every inch of height = 5-7lbs of weight in similar condition. So at 5’6’’ she would have been 148 - 152lbs at less than 6% body fat.

Why am I telling you this? Because if you can’t outmuscle a natural woman, then maybe trying to get shredded isn’t the best option for you right now.

BTW, if you are a TRUE 17% it does mean that you need to lose 11lbs of fat to be at 10% BUT you will likely lose more than that because for each pound of fat you lose, you normally lose 0.25 - 0.33lbs of fat… so at 10% you would be around 145lbs.

FURTHERMORE while I’m all for getting lean and staying as lean as you can, I do believe that:

  1. One should not diet for more than 12-16 weeks straight.

  2. One should have his priorities in order. Gaining muscle is harder to do than lose fat. Plus, the more muscle you have, the easier it is to lose fat.

18

Very good words. Thanks for the advice.

How high in BF would be too high while gaining.

I really did not like the 25% plus club.

My gaining diet BTW would be about 2,600 cals with the same ratios I posted earlier.

And yes, its 17%, its a 7 site JP measurement that I have been using with a lifting mate.

Again - thanks for the reality check guys

19

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Also, at 43, you need to be doing everything in your power to make any gains possible. Your age is already working against you and you are now compounding this by thinking that muscle gains are so easily accrued that you have the option of doing so slowly over the course of years.

You couldn’t be more mistaken if you tried.[/quote]

Indeed!!! I did not see the age part, he’s about my age.

20

[quote]Professor X wrote:
metamorphisis wrote:

Then take my time in years stacking it back on to 175 at 12% - that’s my overall goal.

I am still waiting on even one of you guys who claims they will “gain slowly” to come back here and show us how that has worked out for you. I’ve never seen even one who actually impressed anyone with their gains in muscle mass. You don’t have forever to make progress. You would do better to take advantage of youth while you still have it.[/quote]

Matt Kroczaleski. The guy gained approximately 5 lbs per year over the course of two decades.