Warhorse,
you did not write a single thing that addresses a single claim I made.
One example: you cite Nazi Germany as a case where it was good to violate the law. That shows that some violations of the law are good, not that all violations of all laws are good, therefore, you said nothing about my claim that merely because something violates the law does not make it good.
I will not respond to any further remarks made by people who seem illiterate.
‘There is no neccisity that you think through what you are doing at all. There is, however, if one wants to leave the cave, a necessity that one think through (by means of reasoning) their actions and the reasons they have for doing them.’
Hope your not implying that I didn’t think through my decision cause I’ve spent 5 or so years making up my mind. I’d like to consider myself a logical person and don’t need someone to tell me to apply ‘reasoning’ to my thinking! That is arrogant in the extreme!
‘but if you wish to find some secure footing on which to base your decisions, you will need to think.’
It gets better! Well thanks so much for the concern. You sound like you are trying to save my soul. Repent and all is not lost. You aren’t religious perchance? You are! Well that does suprise me…
I love reading these “who can write the longest post” threads.
In order to truly “leave the cave” one must question everything he sees to determine what his own truth is.
Steroid use - either pro, or con - is a subjective topic. The person who uses them without knowing why is just as ignorant as the person who doesn’t use them without knowing why not.
And ignorance in any situation is inexcusable
I frankly do not know what you mean by “subjective” or one’s “own truth”.
By subjective, I mean that there is no way to quantify an argument either for or against steroid use - it’s based only on one’s beliefs.
One’s own truth is just that. No rocket science here - just think about it.
If you only know what’s been shown to you in a dark cave, your perception of reality, or truth, is based soley on what has been shown to you.
When you “leave the cave” it seems logical to me that you would question everything you see or hear until you determine what truth is to you.
Floobadoo- may I ask why youre taking this so personally? At least thats the impression that Im getting by reading your posts.
I’m all for thinking for myself and generally do not like submission and conformity. I don’t like it when someone legislates what they think is best for me. I listen to wisdom but do not appreciate the inability to discover the reasons for myself. In the case of drugs however, the experience of picking up the needle before picking up your own kid can’t be denied. If you shrug it off, its denial.
I’m against the war on drugs. Not because I condone drug use, but because I think people should have the ability to make whatever choices they want with their own bodies, as long as it doesn’t infringe on someone else’s ability to do the same. I think the war on drugs makes the problem worse if you approach it as an economic problem as opposed to a social problem (In the “system” everything is an economic problem). Its still hard to deny that drug use will not affect people negatively. If you are single, young and experimenting, that’s one thing. Its another thing when your wife is shooting you up and you are choosing the needle over your kid (which happens really easily when you are tempted with the promises that a drug can bring to fruition).
I appreciate this story for its honesty. Anyone who denies the honesty of this story has either never jabbed a needle in their ass or is currently attempting to acheive perfection through chemical enhancement. Its the truth and at the very least gives a person food for thought; thought that can either change things or be shrugged off as something ‘that doesn’t happen all the time’.
So juice is illegal, big deal. How harmful is it in the big picture? Not very.
Some of the claims are kind of funny really. Lose you job over using gear? Not likely, depending on the job. One of my coworkers got busted for a pot growing operation. The cops came and arrested him in the lunchroom at work. He still works here. Another coworker got busted for child molestation. When he got out on work release he still had his job. Nobody really will work with the guy but he’s still employed.
I guess you could look at places where you can buy steroids legally to see what it’s like when access to them involves just paying the guy behind the counter. Those places all have problems but none of them are related to steroids.
There may be health risks from using. There are health risks from riding dirtbikes, skiiing, surfing, or any number of other things you can do too. That’s for the individual to decide.
I don’t care if people smoke, or drink, or use drugs as long as they know the risks and accept the consequences for their actions. The kid accidently walking in on the injection was poor planning but one isolated incident like that isn’t nearly as bad as a mother sitting at the kitchen table smoking a cigarette several times a day for the kid’s life.
I just didn’t see anything so evil described in the article. I guess I’ll have to read the other article to find out what cave we’re supposed to come out of.
I find this thread extremely entertaining.
All the prosteroid guys who responded to this thread have to say is that getting friggin huge is their reason, cause I suspect, in reality, that’s what it boils down to. But if you have some reason besides getting friggin huge, more power to you.
Floobadoo isn’t asking for justification of your usage, merely pointing out that people should have a reason for every thing they do. Good advice if you ask me. The type of thing that seperates man from beast. The reason can be as simple as you want to block out the sun with the width of your back. Hey, at least you have come to understand the reason and purpose of your actions.
Anyway, I am not antisteroid, I just like to see someone push a few buttons and question some assumptions. Get people thinking. Carry on.
Some of the best “non-training” articles are those that generate this kind of debate.
Pre T-Mag, I’d have considered myself totally anti-steroid. I feel I have learned a lot from this site, and although I’d never consider steroids myself, I can completely respect the rights of someone who wants to use them, and especially someone who knows what he’s doing with them.
I liked the article: a fairly ordinary lifter who wanted to bust past a plateau, and doesn’t like needles. Reminds me of me. Yeah, it would be the needle that prevents me, definitely! (Kidding. Maybe.)
I’ve thought about taking steroids.
I decided not to because the ladies always tell me that they wouldn’t want me any bigger.
I just assumed they were talking about my muscles.
As far as rationalization goes. Why be so picky about diet? Why not just get a Bowflex instead of using free weights. Why lift all those heavy weights in the first place? We all have our levels of involvement, physique or strength goals, and personal tolerance for risk and we match our program, diet, and “supplementation” to those things.
wow, i never thought id see a plato reference on T-mag. lmao!
Why can’t the reason for using steroids be vanity? What’s wrong with that? Most of the people on this site lift to look good, even most of the self-proclaimed powerlifters lift mainly for aesthetics.
So – the fact that steroids are cheating or need to be justified is ridiculous since almost everyone here lifts for vanity’s sake. My point is that whether you realize it or not, you’re basing your judgement on the legality of steroids, and not on the moral implications of it.