Staying Stronger... Longer

Pharma
1

No, this has nothing to do with Libido…
I seem to really be hitting a wall with my lifts, and am hoping you guys can shed some light.
I am posting in AAS forum, because this is where my friends at Tmuscle are, and I am active in these forums.

Now, I know it is a whole lot to ask of your body to be able to maintain strength throughout your entire workout. But, I honestly feel I am doing something wrong that is causing my strength to disappear in only a few sets. Yes, there is percentage of max… Speed, and rest time to take into account, and I have but I still cannot seem to find the sweet spot.

My problem is this:
Bench Press Max is 315 and feasibly a bit more as I typically do it for two - three reps.
While this alone may be a problem for some of you (ha) the actual issue is how I have to get to it.
If I warm up with 225lbs and do 8 reps… I’ll never get the 315 once… Why? The 225 doesn’t even feel taxing or heavy at all, and I am sure/tested that I can rep the 225 12-15 times.
If I warm up with 225lbs and do 3 reps… I get the 315 2-3 times… Why? Again it doesn’t feel heavy at all.

I typically stretch my chest on a flat bench with dumbbells before benching like the extended motion of a pec fly and just hold 35lbs there for around 30-40 seconds, along with a few slow pushups and some shoulder stretches.

My guess is that this is related to rest time and recovery between sets, but I am allowing 2-3 minutes.
If this isn’t enough time to rest than… how can I increase my recovery time? Now, on cycle this problem really doesn’t exist, it’s when off cycle and attempting t keep my strength/stamina up.

I have tried many methods of warmup, and honestly most rob me of my strength that I never get into what I consider heavier lifting.

So, the main info I am looking for is how do I recover faster, and stay stronger longer?

My goals are to gain strength, stamina, and size. In that order of importance.

Thanks in advancec!

2

So what you’re saying is that you’re stronger on cycle than you are off cycle?

Interesting.

3
  1. If wanting to get best performance with say 315 when this is, at best, good for two or three reps, this is not best arrived at by warming up with 225 for 8.

Let’s give a nominal value of about 335 for what you might be able to do for one rep. (The exact number does not matter as this is only illustration.)

225 is then 70% of 1RM. Eight reps is therefore fatiguing. Neurologically, it is also quite dissimilar to a load which may be 90% or more of 1RM, as it can be gotten for only 2 or 3 reps at best.

If you want your best performance at the 315, you could try:

Bar: One or 2 sets of 10-20, by feel, stopping well before fatigue.
115: Five reps
165: 3 reps
200, 235, 270, 305: One rep, explosively, and having let the bar down about as quickly as is still in control. No pause, regardless that you may employ a pause in your work sets. (We are in this case wanting to mimimize fatigue on the way up.)

Then the 315.

  1. You could also adapt yourself to greater work volumes with various programs that are higher in volume than you are used to. Strength dropoff as getting further into a workout need not be as bad as it often is. By the time you work yourself up to, for example, being able to do a Smolov Jr cycle, bad dropoff in strength will be a thing of the past.

Or, for example – while I don’t think, if one is going to have only one method or even only a few methods, that these days this is the way to go – old-school pyramiding will build up your work capacity. E.g., 50% 1RM for 10, 55% 1RM for 9, etc, up to anywhere from 75% 1RM for 5 to 85% for three, with as little rest as possible between sets, for example 1 minute, if necessary increasing to two minutes towards the end, or if going up to the triple, to 3 minutes.

  1. Your stretching method beforehand may not be helping you. If you have a poor range of motion then the approximately-minimum amount of stretching needed to have range of motion what it has to be should be done, but going for major stretching beforehand as you are doing could possibly set back your performance. I would do such stretching afterwards.
4

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:

  1. If wanting to get best performance with say 315 when this is, at best, good for two or three reps, this is not best arrived at by warming up with 225 for 8.

Let’s give a nominal value of about 335 for what you might be able to for one rep. (The exact number does not matter as this is only illustration.)

225 is then 70% of 1RM. Eight reps is therefore fatiguing. Neurologically, it is also quite dissimilar to a koad which may be 90% or more of 1RM, as it can be gotten for only 2 or 3 reps at best.

If you want your best performance at the 315, you could try:

Bar: One or 2 sets of 10-20, by feel, stopping well before fatigue.
115: Five reps
165: 3 reps
200, 235, 270, 305: One rep, explosively, and having let the bar down about as quickly as is still in control. No pause.

Then the 315.

  1. You could also adapt yourself to greater work volumes with various programs that are higher in volume than you are used to. Strength dropoff as getting further into a workout need not be as bad as it often is. By the time you work yourself up to, for example, being able to do a Smolov Jr cycle, bad dropoff in strength will be a thing of the past.

  2. Your stretching method beforehand may not be helping you. If you have a poor range of motion then the approximately-minimum amount of stretching needed to have range of motion what it has to be should be done, but going for major stretching beforehand as you are doing could possibly set back your performance. I would do such stretching afterwards.
    [/quote]

Bill, I’m stoked that you answered this for me. I will take this advice and set it in motion starting today. I fear the warm up you posted may fatigue me out, but hey I will dive in head first and let you know the results. That’s why this site is so helpful, if someone is willing to admit that they need help it’s here for the taking.

I’ll leave the stretching for afterwards, I picked that stretching up frpm DC training last year and I love how it feels, but it may as you said be taxing. Also, I just read the “How tall guys get jacked” article. I am quite tall and think my grip is way too wide from what I read there. I usually put my middle fingers on the marker rings, which of course flairs out tthe elbows etc… Looks like I got work to do!
Thanks!

5

Sure thing.

The above warmup really is not substantially fatiguing. Much less so than 225 for 8.

And while I hadn’t done it this way for the following reason, CT’s explanations of CNS activation give reason for why this works well.

I had just looked at it as minimizing fatigue while getting feel for the weight, so that the top work weight would not feel like “WTF,” as can be the case when jumping straight from say 225 to 315, if 315 is near 1RM.

6

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Sure thing.

The above warmup really is not substantially fatiguing. Much less so than 225 for 8.

And while I hadn’t done it this way for the following reason, CT’s explanations of CNS activation give reason for why this works well.

I had just looked at it as minimizing fatigue while getting feel for the weight, so that the top work weight would not feel like “WTF,” as can be the case when jumping straight from say 225 to 315, if 315 is near 1RM.[/quote]

I am all to familiar with the (wtf) feeling you speak of. It seems odd that one day 300lbs feel ehh’ while another day it feels like a bus parked over me.
Thanks again, heading out now… But no more chest till next week.

7

I’m late to the party but I agree with Bill. Both the relatively high rep warmup lifts and the lengthy stretch are likely hampering your effective strength to some degree. It’s one thing to hit the antagonist muscles (back, in particular) with lots of stretching before a lift, but IMO you really need to back off on stretching your chest excessively before benching.

8

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Sure thing.

The above warmup really is not substantially fatiguing. Much less so than 225 for 8.

And while I hadn’t done it this way for the following reason, CT’s explanations of CNS activation give reason for why this works well.

I had just looked at it as minimizing fatigue while getting feel for the weight, so that the top work weight would not feel like “WTF,” as can be the case when jumping straight from say 225 to 315, if 315 is near 1RM.[/quote]

+1 to this

I approach the warmup with exactly the same mindset - to prepare myself for larger weights, whilst ensuring that I am still absolutely fresh, so as not to take away from my work sets.

9

I like to put up 1-3 reps when warming up depending on how it feels (once I feel good/explosive on that weight i drop it and bump it up)…you don’t want to get to that point where you am tiring at all (judged by my rep speed slowing or being less explosive), if I feel that I stop immediately so I am saving a full tank of gas for the max lift set…whole purpose of the warmup is to activate your CNS and get it ready for the big lift so no need to keep going after you feel explosive on that weight IMO.

I find this is the only way I make good progress on my 1RM…you do need to switch things up every once in a while to keep making progess though, some high volume training or mobility work is a good change when you have hit a plateau.

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Excellent suggestions everybody. Thank You!
Learning how everybody trains is crucial to keeping this interesting.