Starting Over - Clean Bulk

Nutrition
41

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

After months on 1,100 calories a day (bad move IMO) , I’m not even sure how many calories you’ll need each day. I do highly doubt, it’ll be 2,600 like you have outlined above. This seriously looks like a diet I would cut on, not bulk. If you’re working out as hard as you’re supposed to be then there is no way this is going to cut it. I bulked pretty much during the same time period as you and got to a similar weight. (6’ 230). The difference was that my diet was there to support my strength gains. If I gained weight without significantly getting stronger, I made an adjustment.

The key, as other’s have said, is to focus on getting stronger and eating to sustain this goal. I don’t believe the diet above does this. By the time you hit 240 on your last bulk, you were doing 70x6 on incline dumbells and 60x10 on decline. These numbers need to be in the 100’s when you’re done with this bulk.[/quote]

I don’t think it’s right to say his diet “isn’t going to cut it.” It’s more than double the amount of calories he’s on now, so this diet would be more than sufficient. I think it’s waaaay too much food considering how little food he’s been consuming.

I think the best route would be to eat instinctively. If you’re training hard, eat when you’re hungry. If you’re still hungry, eat more. Stick with the food choices you have outlined, but if you suddenly stuff yourself double the amount of food and maybe 10x the amount of carbs you were previously consuming, you’ll have significant fat rebound and digestive distress.

Eat to fulfill your needs, not to reach an arbitrary number.

42

[quote]eggers wrote:

I don’t think it’s right to say his diet “isn’t going to cut it.” It’s more than double the amount of calories he’s on now, so this diet would be more than sufficient. I think it’s waaaay too much food considering how little food he’s been consuming.

I think the best route would be to eat instinctively. If you’re training hard, eat when you’re hungry. If you’re still hungry, eat more. Stick with the food choices you have outlined, but if you suddenly stuff yourself double the amount of food and maybe 10x the amount of carbs you were previously consuming, you’ll have significant fat rebound and digestive distress.

Eat to fulfill your needs, not to reach an arbitrary number.[/quote]

You think it’s too much, I think it’s too little. But as you just said, he needs to eat instinctively so neither of our estimations are going to be spot on. And like I said, he needs to eat enough to support his workouts. If you’re hungry on 2,600 calories and not getting stronger than obviously you need to eat more. If your energy level sucks on sub 200 carbs, your workouts are gonna suck as well. If your energy levels are good enough to support a HARD workout, then fine. If he’s got any common sense, he’ll figure it out along the way.

43

[quote]Artem wrote:
Okay, so here’s the diet I have laid out so far. Please tell me how it looks.

Meal 1 (Breakfast):
-3 whole eggs (213 cal, 18p, 15f, 0c)
-1.5 scoops whey (165 cal, 40p, 0f, 0c)
-1/2 cup oats (153 cal, 5p, 2.5f, 26c)
-1 banana (105 cal, 1p, 0f, 27c)
-Animal Pak (16 cal, 3p, 0f, 1c)

Meal 2 (Lunch):
-6 oz chicken breast (276 cal, 54p, 6f, 0c)
-1 cup sweet potatoes (180 cal, 4p, 0f, 41c)

Meal 3 (Pre-Workout):
-7 oz beef (287 cal, 49p, 7f, 0c)
-1 cup brown rice (216 cal, 5p, 2f, 45c)

LIFT

Meal 4 (Post-Workout):
-7 oz beef (287 cal, 49p, 7f, 0c)
-1 cup white rice (169 cal, 4p, 0f, 37c)

Meal 5 (Pre-Bed):
-8 oz salmon (464 cal, 48p, 24f, 0c)
-mixed vegetable salad
-Animal Omega (60 cal, 0p, 7f, 0c)

TOTAL:
Calories: 2591
Protein: 280g
Fat: 70g
Carbs: 179g

Before anyone says it, I won’t do 6 meals until I graduate school in a month, so this will do for now. And I don’t want dairy in my diet.
Also, I’ve been on keto and very low calories for a long time, so keep that in mind in regards to how I’ll rebound.

Thank you for any input.[/quote]

It looks good, I like how you have kept everything simple so you can stick to it.

A couple of changes I would make though:

Increase all meats to 8oz
have 2 scoops of whey at breakfast.
Have brown rice AFTER your workout, and white rice BEFORE. Brown rice seems to take a much longer time to digest.

Then just see how it goes, there is only so much advice you can take before you end up spinning in circles going nowhere.

If you aren’t gaining weight on this, just gradually increase your portions, perhaps add another protein shake before bed. Just do what works for YOU.

Just believe in what you are doing and stay consistant, good luck.

44

[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
Artem wrote:
Okay, so here’s the diet I have laid out so far. Please tell me how it looks.

Meal 1 (Breakfast):
-3 whole eggs (213 cal, 18p, 15f, 0c)
-1.5 scoops whey (165 cal, 40p, 0f, 0c)
-1/2 cup oats (153 cal, 5p, 2.5f, 26c)
-1 banana (105 cal, 1p, 0f, 27c)
-Animal Pak (16 cal, 3p, 0f, 1c)

Meal 2 (Lunch):
-6 oz chicken breast (276 cal, 54p, 6f, 0c)
-1 cup sweet potatoes (180 cal, 4p, 0f, 41c)

Meal 3 (Pre-Workout):
-7 oz beef (287 cal, 49p, 7f, 0c)
-1 cup brown rice (216 cal, 5p, 2f, 45c)

LIFT

Meal 4 (Post-Workout):
-7 oz beef (287 cal, 49p, 7f, 0c)
-1 cup white rice (169 cal, 4p, 0f, 37c)

Meal 5 (Pre-Bed):
-8 oz salmon (464 cal, 48p, 24f, 0c)
-mixed vegetable salad
-Animal Omega (60 cal, 0p, 7f, 0c)

TOTAL:
Calories: 2591
Protein: 280g
Fat: 70g
Carbs: 179g

Before anyone says it, I won’t do 6 meals until I graduate school in a month, so this will do for now. And I don’t want dairy in my diet.
Also, I’ve been on keto and very low calories for a long time, so keep that in mind in regards to how I’ll rebound.

Thank you for any input.

It looks good, I like how you have kept everything simple so you can stick to it.

A couple of changes I would make though:

Increase all meats to 8oz
have 2 scoops of whey at breakfast.
Have brown rice AFTER your workout, and white rice BEFORE. Brown rice seems to take a much longer time to digest.

Then just see how it goes, there is only so much advice you can take before you end up spinning in circles going nowhere.

If you aren’t gaining weight on this, just gradually increase your portions, perhaps add another protein shake before bed. Just do what works for YOU.

Just believe in what you are doing and stay consistant, good luck.
[/quote]

Aren’t I supposed to have fast-digesting carbs post-workout so that they can get to the muscles quickly?

45

Dude just have tang its the best pre-workout however you cant really mix it with any drinks esp your protein shake haha.

46

On non-training days, how should my diet look compared to training days? Should calories be kept the same? I was thinking of keeping it the same except for replacing the carbs in my second to last meal (post-workout) with fats. So carbs would be tapered off after 6pm or so. That sound good?

Also, I looked up the nutritional information of ground beef and it has 3x more fat than just beef, but I can’t eat steak twice a day. I don’t like that ratio of calories from fat to protein. Any suggestions or alternatives?

47

[quote]Artem wrote:
On non-training days, how should my diet look compared to training days? Should calories be kept the same? I was thinking of keeping it the same except for replacing the carbs in my second to last meal (post-workout) with fats. So carbs would be tapered off after 6pm or so. That sound good?

Also, I looked up the nutritional information of ground beef and it has 3x more fat than just beef, but I can’t eat steak twice a day. I don’t like that ratio of calories from fat to protein. Any suggestions or alternatives? [/quote]

Get leaner ground beef?

48

Listen man you are complicating this way too much. Bulking is too simple. Eat whenever you start to get hungry, and eat enough to be full. It really doesn’t matter how many meals a day you have, eat at your convenience. Have a crap-load protein at every meal, and vary it so you don’t get sick of the same old food (ground beef, who cares what percentage it is, steak if you can afford it, eggs, cottage cheese, protein powder, turkey/ham/deli cuts, cheese, chicken, etc). Have carbs in the first half of the day (brown rice, sweet potatoes, whole wheat/ezekiel/kamut bread, oats) and before lifting. Have fats in the second half of the day (various nuts, olive oil is your friend, avocados). Really these are just guidelines, if you want to eat carbs, fat, and protein together, DO IT, EAT A LOT TO GET FULL.

In regards to whether or not keeping calories/carbs the same on lifting/non-lifting days, again, IT DOESN’T MATTER. Keep bulking simple and don’t think about it: eat a shitload of quality food multiple times a day.

49

[quote]Artem wrote:
Goodfellow wrote:
Artem wrote:
Okay, so here’s the diet I have laid out so far. Please tell me how it looks.

Meal 1 (Breakfast):
-3 whole eggs (213 cal, 18p, 15f, 0c)
-1.5 scoops whey (165 cal, 40p, 0f, 0c)
-1/2 cup oats (153 cal, 5p, 2.5f, 26c)
-1 banana (105 cal, 1p, 0f, 27c)
-Animal Pak (16 cal, 3p, 0f, 1c)

Meal 2 (Lunch):
-6 oz chicken breast (276 cal, 54p, 6f, 0c)
-1 cup sweet potatoes (180 cal, 4p, 0f, 41c)

Meal 3 (Pre-Workout):
-7 oz beef (287 cal, 49p, 7f, 0c)
-1 cup brown rice (216 cal, 5p, 2f, 45c)

LIFT

Meal 4 (Post-Workout):
-7 oz beef (287 cal, 49p, 7f, 0c)
-1 cup white rice (169 cal, 4p, 0f, 37c)

Meal 5 (Pre-Bed):
-8 oz salmon (464 cal, 48p, 24f, 0c)
-mixed vegetable salad
-Animal Omega (60 cal, 0p, 7f, 0c)

TOTAL:
Calories: 2591
Protein: 280g
Fat: 70g
Carbs: 179g

Before anyone says it, I won’t do 6 meals until I graduate school in a month, so this will do for now. And I don’t want dairy in my diet.
Also, I’ve been on keto and very low calories for a long time, so keep that in mind in regards to how I’ll rebound.

Thank you for any input.

It looks good, I like how you have kept everything simple so you can stick to it.

A couple of changes I would make though:

Increase all meats to 8oz
have 2 scoops of whey at breakfast.
Have brown rice AFTER your workout, and white rice BEFORE. Brown rice seems to take a much longer time to digest.

Then just see how it goes, there is only so much advice you can take before you end up spinning in circles going nowhere.

If you aren’t gaining weight on this, just gradually increase your portions, perhaps add another protein shake before bed. Just do what works for YOU.

Just believe in what you are doing and stay consistant, good luck.

Aren’t I supposed to have fast-digesting carbs post-workout so that they can get to the muscles quickly?[/quote]

If you have brown rice before your workout, it’s going to take forever to fully digest - So your body will be spending effort digesting food while you train, sapping some energy.

If you have a quick read about CT’s peri-workout nutrition ideas also, it makes sense to have fast-digesting carbs before and during your workout (for energy), rather than after.

50

[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
Artem wrote:
Goodfellow wrote:
Artem wrote:
Okay, so here’s the diet I have laid out so far. Please tell me how it looks.

Meal 1 (Breakfast):
-3 whole eggs (213 cal, 18p, 15f, 0c)
-1.5 scoops whey (165 cal, 40p, 0f, 0c)
-1/2 cup oats (153 cal, 5p, 2.5f, 26c)
-1 banana (105 cal, 1p, 0f, 27c)
-Animal Pak (16 cal, 3p, 0f, 1c)

Meal 2 (Lunch):
-6 oz chicken breast (276 cal, 54p, 6f, 0c)
-1 cup sweet potatoes (180 cal, 4p, 0f, 41c)

Meal 3 (Pre-Workout):
-7 oz beef (287 cal, 49p, 7f, 0c)
-1 cup brown rice (216 cal, 5p, 2f, 45c)

LIFT

Meal 4 (Post-Workout):
-7 oz beef (287 cal, 49p, 7f, 0c)
-1 cup white rice (169 cal, 4p, 0f, 37c)

Meal 5 (Pre-Bed):
-8 oz salmon (464 cal, 48p, 24f, 0c)
-mixed vegetable salad
-Animal Omega (60 cal, 0p, 7f, 0c)

TOTAL:
Calories: 2591
Protein: 280g
Fat: 70g
Carbs: 179g

Before anyone says it, I won’t do 6 meals until I graduate school in a month, so this will do for now. And I don’t want dairy in my diet.
Also, I’ve been on keto and very low calories for a long time, so keep that in mind in regards to how I’ll rebound.

Thank you for any input.

It looks good, I like how you have kept everything simple so you can stick to it.

A couple of changes I would make though:

Increase all meats to 8oz
have 2 scoops of whey at breakfast.
Have brown rice AFTER your workout, and white rice BEFORE. Brown rice seems to take a much longer time to digest.

Then just see how it goes, there is only so much advice you can take before you end up spinning in circles going nowhere.

If you aren’t gaining weight on this, just gradually increase your portions, perhaps add another protein shake before bed. Just do what works for YOU.

Just believe in what you are doing and stay consistant, good luck.

Aren’t I supposed to have fast-digesting carbs post-workout so that they can get to the muscles quickly?

If you have brown rice before your workout, it’s going to take forever to fully digest - So your body will be spending effort digesting food while you train, sapping some energy.

If you have a quick read about CT’s peri-workout nutrition ideas also, it makes sense to have fast-digesting carbs before and during your workout (for energy), rather than after.

[/quote]
That makes sense. So, should I have white rice before and brown after? I plan on having some aminos directly after training and then have a protein/carb meal when I get home.

51

I think people put too much emphasis on diet when their training is what is lacking. You were weak as shit when you weighed in the 200s, and you’re expecting a change in diet to make your gains for you.

Train for strength and let size develop. Eat more to keep up with the volume of training. You didn’t even get the standard 20-80 ratio that most people get (without training) when they gain weight.

I’m also not saying that your diet is not important, but for bulking the AMOUNT of food is much more important than what foods you’re eating, unless you’re trying to stay leaner while putting on muscle.

Lift harder.

52

So, you do know that a gallon of milk is not a proper peri workout supplement now right ?

53

[quote]WS4JB wrote:
So, you do know that a gallon of milk is not a proper peri workout supplement now right ?[/quote]

Yeah. Now I know that.
You’re one clever dude.

54

Honestly Artem, it seems like you have become obsessed with details and have lost sight of the bigger picture. Instead of worrying about all of the little things I think you should think big. Get in the gym 6 times per week an hour per day and bust your ass. There are plenty of articles on here about what workouts are best for what goals, and I am sure your aware of that.

As far as diet goes, eat healthy, eat often, and as long as your lifting consistently on a hard level, you will see growth. It seems that so many people try to find some secret key or fact that will magically help them make huge gains. Truth is there isn’t one, as I have even tried to find it myself. The one thing that will guarantee results is hard work, discipline, and consistency. Eat healthy carbs (sweet potatoes, brown rice, quinoa, fruit) and try to eat them in your first two meals and around your workout times only. Eat healthy fats, and healthy proteins, and cut all of the junk out of your diet, not just some of it, all of it.

I have yet to see single person who gets in the gym 6 days a week, busts there ass, and eats healthy at every meal, fail to gain muscle and achieve a well rounded physique. I think you should restart by looking at the bigger picture, and once you have been consistent with that for a 4-6 months, then you can start looking into the smaller tweaks and details.

Hard work, consistency, and dedication should be your main focuses, not calorie counts, drastic weight fluctuation, and diet obsession.

PM me if you have any more questions.

55

^^^^above x2, well said WC7, well said. artem do that and come back end of next year and surprise us. we all know you can eat consistently and train consistently and diet consistently. now you just gotta find the balance which works for you.

the whole training 6 days a week, do it but train a 3 day split twice, like MODOK said in t-cell, frequency and progression are key, write a log, keep the same sorta excercise/rep ranges for 12 weeks, then adjust by swapping them around or deleting ones that arent working.

6 days training and eating average food but getting enough calories in, will still make you gain muscle and keep you reasonably lean, dont worry bout the cardio, you get enough NEPA from school and enough excercise from your training

lift heavy or choose a different career. (yes, bodybuilding is a career)

56

diet looks pretty good just slowly increase it over time 2600 calories is low as fuck

how is your strength? what is your squat, bench, and deadlift #s like? (or variations like DB bench if you dont do barbell)

57

I like what the great poet Jim Wendler has said in the past:

58

[quote]Artem wrote:
WS4JB wrote:
So, you do know that a gallon of milk is not a proper peri workout supplement now right ?

Yeah. Now I know that.
You’re one clever dude.[/quote]

Now remind me, which one of us went from 140 lb weak skinny kid to 240 lb weak fat kid, then back to 150 lbs and passing out in grocery stores ?

59

Honestly, most people overthink gaining/losing weight. 3 basic ideas for losing weight:

  1. eat a little less. 2. Move a little more. 3. do neither to the extreme.

For gaining weight:

  1. eat a little more. 2. Do a little less cardio. 3. Do neither to the extreme.

(I can’t take credit/criticism for these ideas. One of the authors on this site I believe wrote this. At least, they wrote the losing weight one. The gaining weight one I wrote, but it uses the same logic/ideas the first one does)

60

updates?