Starting Judo

[quote]chitown34 wrote:
quick thoughts -

-only 2 judo classes a week? is this all your club offers? don’t expect to improve very quickly.

-lifts… these need a lot of work. you can’t fire a cannon from a canoe, and until you strengthen your foundation I don’t think you will see a gain in “explosiveness”. cut out the explosive days, stick with something simple like “Starting Strength” right now.

-food intake is already too low (i assume based on lifts), and you will need to eat even more to recover from the addition of judo classes.

I am envious that you are starting judo at low strength levels because you will develop good technique faster than your stronger peers. every time some goon twice your size manhandles you with shit technique, don’t try and fight fire with fire. keep the ju in your do and you will surpass him before long…[/quote]

Keep in mind this is a woman. Her strength levels for a woman are pretty good.

[quote]ironcross wrote:

Work the opposing muscle of the one that’s sore? I would have never thought of that. Is that to make sure that you don’t develop a disbalance?[/quote]

It’s my theory on how to combat the inevitable imbalances that come with doing the hundreds upon hundreds of repetitions that nearly all martial artists and fighters endure.

Always remember that as Wendler said, weightlifting to fighters is just a supplement. That supplemental work should be used, in my opinion, to unfuck all the things you’re fucking up in the ring or dojo.

Hence KMC’s heavy pushing of mobility drills, of activation drills, of proper warmups, etc. (he’s also an ancient mick too, so keep that in mind as well, you’re probably not as old as him.) But yea, this shit becomes almost more important than the weight your pushing, especially as you age. And the more of this shit you do when you’re young, the better off you’ll be in ten or fifteen years (that’s my opinion, as someone who never did that shit when he was young.)

And also, Robert A’s post is fantastic and can be applied to many facets of life, but definitely school and DEFINITELY fighting.

What he said about learning the basics is absolutely true. You can’t learn a bolo punch without learning how to step first, you can’t learn a fancy ass submission hold if you don’t know how to control your hips in BJJ.

Another thing to think about that, if you keep studying judo for about a year, you will understand, is that all of fighting is much more about concepts than it is techniques.

The hinge principal when throwing a punch- you turn your weight off your feet, either your rear foot for a straight right or the front one for a left hook - to add power to your blow in boxing.

You go to a karate class and they’re gonna call it some fancy ass japanese shit and they’re gonna make sure your pyjamas are all folded and tied on the right way, and they’re gonna say your legs are too close, and to keep your other hand down instead of by your face… but when you throw Karate’s reverse punch, you’re going to do the exact same thing and pivot off your rear foot.

This now becomes a concept, a principal of fighting, instead of just a technique.

Same with your hips. I never took judo but I’m sure they’re gonna tell you when you get in trouble to drop your hips - keep your weight down - it’s going to make you harder to move.

In boxing, you drop your hips and turn into a punch, and they call that “Sitting down on your punches” and fuck me does it add power; but, you’re going to be a bit slower and less mobile.

So now this becomes a principle - low hips equals a more stable base and more power, but it also means your mobility is compromised.

These things cut across all the arts, and if you stick with judo, you’ll see it.

The end of this post had nothing really to do with your post, of course, it’s just something that Robert’s post made me think of and something that you may want to keep an eye out for to better help you (or anyone) understand the fighting arts.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]chitown34 wrote:
quick thoughts -

-only 2 judo classes a week? is this all your club offers? don’t expect to improve very quickly.

-lifts… these need a lot of work. you can’t fire a cannon from a canoe, and until you strengthen your foundation I don’t think you will see a gain in “explosiveness”. cut out the explosive days, stick with something simple like “Starting Strength” right now.

-food intake is already too low (i assume based on lifts), and you will need to eat even more to recover from the addition of judo classes.

I am envious that you are starting judo at low strength levels because you will develop good technique faster than your stronger peers. every time some goon twice your size manhandles you with shit technique, don’t try and fight fire with fire. keep the ju in your do and you will surpass him before long…[/quote]

Keep in mind this is a woman. Her strength levels for a woman are pretty good.[/quote]

Lol whoops, totally missed that. ignore my jibes at strength levels…

People have written some good stuff in this thread but here is my experience.

In my judo class we have all body types and sizes, and all manner of workout regimes and lack thereof. I would say that success in judo revolves around how hard you train on the mats, and making yourself step on the mat even when that seems like the last thing your body will support. One of the most important things one gains in judo is true grit and toughness. That comes from time on the mat, and it comes from getting beat but standing back up.

As far as workouts are considered, I’ve been lifting for over a decade, but recently had around 18 months off to recover from a destroyed shoulder (from a judo tournament) I was able to still play judo in that time period, but lifting was impossible. I’m currently just doing Starting Strength to get my big lifts back up to where they were pre-injury. For the past 6 weeks I have been doing judo Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and alternating squat/bench/dead and squat/press/clean on the intervening days. Recovery has actually not been a problem because I am adding a lot of extra calories, and making sure to never go to bed after 10:00pm. ZMA is vital.

One of the other judo players in the class is a cross-fit guru. One of the best judo players I have ever met does nothing but body weight exercises. Many don’t workout at all and only do judo. I would consider all successful at judo because they have figured out how to make the most out of their advantages and minimize their disadvantages.

Also don’t worry about people that say twice a week isn’t good enough. The point of judo is not to be an olympian in six months. Find a way to balance it with your life so that you can still be training 10 years down the road.

[quote]borrek wrote:
People have written some good stuff in this thread but here is my experience.

In my judo class we have all body types and sizes, and all manner of workout regimes and lack thereof. I would say that success in judo revolves around how hard you train on the mats, and making yourself step on the mat even when that seems like the last thing your body will support. One of the most important things one gains in judo is true grit and toughness. That comes from time on the mat, and it comes from getting beat but standing back up.

As far as workouts are considered, I’ve been lifting for over a decade, but recently had around 18 months off to recover from a destroyed shoulder (from a judo tournament) I was able to still play judo in that time period, but lifting was impossible. I’m currently just doing Starting Strength to get my big lifts back up to where they were pre-injury. For the past 6 weeks I have been doing judo Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and alternating squat/bench/dead and squat/press/clean on the intervening days. Recovery has actually not been a problem because I am adding a lot of extra calories, and making sure to never go to bed after 10:00pm. ZMA is vital.

One of the other judo players in the class is a cross-fit guru. One of the best judo players I have ever met does nothing but body weight exercises. Many don’t workout at all and only do judo. I would consider all successful at judo because they have figured out how to make the most out of their advantages and minimize their disadvantages.

Also don’t worry about people that say twice a week isn’t good enough. The point of judo is not to be an olympian in six months. Find a way to balance it with your life so that you can still be training 10 years down the road.[/quote]

Thanks for your response. This is helpful.

[quote]borrek wrote:

Also don’t worry about people that say twice a week isn’t good enough. The point of judo is not to be an olympian in six months. Find a way to balance it with your life so that you can still be training 10 years down the road.[/quote]

Sage advice that goes for just about everything in life. I’ve found this also true with BJJ (which has some Judo included in our technique classes).

Judoka for 16 years. Sambo for 9. Bjj for 3. With in and out if boxing, kyokushin and mu y Thai.
.
honestly stick to basic full body workouts - I do olympic style lifts, medicine ball, kettle bells , try doing full body wor kout once a week and slowly work your way up. Power will help a bit, but technique rules all

Irish was right about using a sledge hammer here and there it’s a great full body exercise and improves a lot of specific aspects of a person’s physique that would certainly turn over well to Judo.

The sledge will improved grip/hand and wrist strength a lot which should help with all aspects of Judo. It works the core fairly hardcore and massively increases the strength and stability of the back for hip throws and the like. It’ll even increase the strength/size of your neck if you use it with a vest.

It’s a great full body conditioning tool it’ll even hit your calves and legs pretty hard and might improve that 6 minute run. I would say if you run so well to try running with the medicine ball as well, you can do some explosive “jumping” squats with it, throw it in the air in an explosive way, slam it, etc. Medicine ball you can pretty much do anything with, so fit in some-where.

Also, I would say check out the 3inch thick-grip bar for your deadlift once in awhile. It will drop how much you are lifting significantly, but it makes it more of a grip-exercise, and a lot harder on the tendons. (you can squeeze more grip workout into the dead-lift this way, hits the entire hand/fore-arm A LOT harder) a few exercises are good to include the thick-bar.

Anything that works the tendons or ligaments like the thick-bar, will probably help you out in Judo.

For example it is claimed that the avg person is strong enough to rip a deck of cards in half (the strength in their body, their legs, abs, glutes, arms) but they cannot direct all this through their “pinch-grip” with their hands to actually accomplish the task. In some-thing like Judo, you want to be able to fully direct the strength of your entire body, through your hands, so improved grip strength in all areas of grip, pinch grip, support grip, crushing grip, etc. All should be improved because it will allow you to handle other people better, to utilize the strength of your entire body better.

Lifting awkward objects filled with water or water and sand can also help a keg or a large bottle of water/sand doesn’t feel like dead-weight when you lift it, feels like lifting some-thing alive that is struggling with you. Builds a lot of stabilizer muscles and tendon strength which would probably help in Judo.

sand-bags, awkward objects, etc. Be careful though, a lot of awkward objects, esp those filled with water or water and sand, they try and hit you in the face, or in the head, it’s really hard to control the “sloshing” and moving of it.

[quote]ironcross wrote:
Before I get flamed, I’ve read through this forum and tried to search for answers, and I still have some questions about training for judo.

Here’s what I’m thinking about:

Day 1: Full body strength work

Day 2: Judo class

Day 3: Explosive work

Day 4: Judo class

Day 5: Full Body strength work

For the explosive work I’m very confused about whether or not to use medicine balls and agility drills. How much do they help? I’m definitely going to be using olympic lifts.

For the strength days, I’m wondering if it would be better to completely do away with deadlifts and squats in favor for single leg deadlifts and squats variations.

Next, I’m wondering if I should do use the 5x5 scheme for the single-leg exercises or if I should kick the reps up to 8 because in the past while strength training, I’ve noticed that I make faster progress with my lower half when I use higher than 6 reps. My upper body seems to respond better to the lower reps. I don’t know why, but I do have over a year’s worth of recorded strength progress saying that’s what my body does.

Also, I’m thinking about doing away with bench press-like movements entirely in favor of overhead pressing stuff and weighted pushups. Thoughts?

Lastly, it seems like judo movements require an explosive, very strong core, so my thought was to taylor exercise selection so that each movement involves anti-core-rotation. For example, doing suitcase and single-leg deadlifts instead of deadlifts, doing single-leg pushups, doing a variation of a land-mine instead of an overhead press… I’m not sure if this is a good idea. It just makes sense to my novice mind. Feedback would be awesome.

Thank you.[/quote]

What the fuck is this bullshit plan?

Are you a closet-body builder or weightlifter or you want to do judo??

You plan to do 2 classes of judo A WEEK and 3 sessions of other shit and then sit on you ass the other 2 days?

HOW ABOUT DO JUDO EVERYDAY ( JUDO IS FULL BODY STRENGTH WORK,CORE WORK AND FUCKING EXPLOSIVE WORK IF YOU DO IT PROPERLY AND MUCH MORE )?

and fit some weight lifting if you can

I know judo athletes that do a few sessions a day and progress and only pencil-neck geeks that do 2 sessions a week overtrain & quit coz they are too busy searching forums for optimal plan while they DIDNT EVEN START THE DAMN SPORT!

Why is always people like Karelin that just runs out of the door to run in sub-zero weather in knee deep snow that dont overtrain & go and win the medal and pencil-neck geeks that meticously plan their fucking OPTIMAL training split while they didnt even start the sport that in a few months quit and start some fucking other sport??

Single leg squats and deads are new fucking medal of hardcore,I guess…

[quote]borrek wrote:
People have written some good stuff in this thread but here is my experience.

In my judo class we have all body types and sizes, and all manner of workout regimes and lack thereof. I would say that success in judo revolves around how hard you train on the mats, and making yourself step on the mat even when that seems like the last thing your body will support. One of the most important things one gains in judo is true grit and toughness. That comes from time on the mat, and it comes from getting beat but standing back up.

As far as workouts are considered, I’ve been lifting for over a decade, but recently had around 18 months off to recover from a destroyed shoulder (from a judo tournament) I was able to still play judo in that time period, but lifting was impossible. I’m currently just doing Starting Strength to get my big lifts back up to where they were pre-injury. For the past 6 weeks I have been doing judo Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and alternating squat/bench/dead and squat/press/clean on the intervening days. Recovery has actually not been a problem because I am adding a lot of extra calories, and making sure to never go to bed after 10:00pm. ZMA is vital.

One of the other judo players in the class is a cross-fit guru. One of the best judo players I have ever met does nothing but body weight exercises. Many don’t workout at all and only do judo. I would consider all successful at judo because they have figured out how to make the most out of their advantages and minimize their disadvantages.

Also don’t worry about people that say twice a week isn’t good enough. The point of judo is not to be an olympian in six months. Find a way to balance it with your life so that you can still be training 10 years down the road.[/quote]

Bullshit.

1.they were great judokas before ZMA was invented.Fact.So the fucking ZMA is NOT VITAL.

2.so you are saying twice a week of judo is enough? for who 80-year old granny?
judokas in Japan train 8 hours a day!

^ A little harsh but i definitely agree. 2x/week is not enough for anything to stick, and if you are going to commit to a judo club you might as well put forth a strong effort. There’s no reason why you can’t do weight lifting or performance training in the AM and Judo at night.

The Japanese exchange students I trained with in college lifted weights every weekday morning and trained judo anywhere from 2-6 hours a day. They were by no means blessed genetically, but built up that work capacity over years of hard training.

Holy shit. What about people who have jobs or school…LOL so do you guys get paid to train in whatever sport you do? How could you train in the morning when you have to be at work by 8am and don’t get home until 6pm? Still have to prepare meals and take care of the other things in life. Hell the training center I go to isn’t even open at 6 am so how could you train Judo when they aren’t even open? Lets get real with real people.

When I started training I did go almost every day, would have went everyday but they did not offer a calss that I was eligible for everyday. Now I have other responsibilities and I basically train 2 days a week as far as going to class is concerned. I do lift and do shadow boxing etc. inside my routines when I am not in class and I have no problem remembering what I learned.

I don’t think the OP is trying to enter a Judo competition anytime soon and is most likely doing the sport for the sake of enjoying the sport. She is trying to get the most out of what is available in her schedule so I think we can take out the training 8 hours a day. I spent a total of 10 years in Japan and only people who were seriously competing or just really had no other life was training that much EVERYDAY.

This thread is from early August fellas. Dude who made it probably forgot all about it.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
This thread is from early August fellas. Dude who made it probably forgot all about it.
[/quote]

Pretty sure Ironcross is a young co-ed.

Ironcross, if you are lurking can we get an update?

Regards,

Robert A

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]borrek wrote:
People have written some good stuff in this thread but here is my experience.

In my judo class we have all body types and sizes, and all manner of workout regimes and lack thereof. I would say that success in judo revolves around how hard you train on the mats, and making yourself step on the mat even when that seems like the last thing your body will support. One of the most important things one gains in judo is true grit and toughness. That comes from time on the mat, and it comes from getting beat but standing back up.

As far as workouts are considered, I’ve been lifting for over a decade, but recently had around 18 months off to recover from a destroyed shoulder (from a judo tournament) I was able to still play judo in that time period, but lifting was impossible. I’m currently just doing Starting Strength to get my big lifts back up to where they were pre-injury. For the past 6 weeks I have been doing judo Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and alternating squat/bench/dead and squat/press/clean on the intervening days. Recovery has actually not been a problem because I am adding a lot of extra calories, and making sure to never go to bed after 10:00pm. ZMA is vital.

One of the other judo players in the class is a cross-fit guru. One of the best judo players I have ever met does nothing but body weight exercises. Many don’t workout at all and only do judo. I would consider all successful at judo because they have figured out how to make the most out of their advantages and minimize their disadvantages.

Also don’t worry about people that say twice a week isn’t good enough. The point of judo is not to be an olympian in six months. Find a way to balance it with your life so that you can still be training 10 years down the road.[/quote]

Bullshit.

1.they were great judokas before ZMA was invented.Fact.So the fucking ZMA is NOT VITAL.

2.so you are saying twice a week of judo is enough? for who 80-year old granny?
judokas in Japan train 8 hours a day!
[/quote]

Dude, get a grip. I wasn’t saying that ZMA is vital for judo, but I was saying that if you plan on recovering from both judo and hard weightlifting, then sleep is needed, and ZMA helps you sleep.

Judoka in Japan do not train 8 hours a day. Maybe the prefecture and collegiate competitors do, but 90% do not. You have no idea what you’re fucking talking about.

[quote]chitown34 wrote:
^ A little harsh but i definitely agree. 2x/week is not enough for anything to stick, and if you are going to commit to a judo club you might as well put forth a strong effort. There’s no reason why you can’t do weight lifting or performance training in the AM and Judo at night.

The Japanese exchange students I trained with in college lifted weights every weekday morning and trained judo anywhere from 2-6 hours a day. They were by no means blessed genetically, but built up that work capacity over years of hard training.
[/quote]

So, they built up to that work capacity, meaning they didn’t bust out of the gate at a million miles an hour yet that’s what people suggest should be no sweat for the OP?

This place is getting intense.

[quote]Ranzo wrote:
Holy shit. What about people who have jobs or school…LOL so do you guys get paid to train in whatever sport you do? How could you train in the morning when you have to be at work by 8am and don’t get home until 6pm? Still have to prepare meals and take care of the other things in life. Hell the training center I go to isn’t even open at 6 am so how could you train Judo when they aren’t even open? Lets get real with real people.

When I started training I did go almost every day, would have went everyday but they did not offer a calss that I was eligible for everyday. Now I have other responsibilities and I basically train 2 days a week as far as going to class is concerned. I do lift and do shadow boxing etc. inside my routines when I am not in class and I have no problem remembering what I learned.

I don’t think the OP is trying to enter a Judo competition anytime soon and is most likely doing the sport for the sake of enjoying the sport. She is trying to get the most out of what is available in her schedule so I think we can take out the training 8 hours a day. I spent a total of 10 years in Japan and only people who were seriously competing or just really had no other life was training that much EVERYDAY.[/quote]

I thought this is a combat forum and that people that bother exchanging info here are at least a bit serious about it.You are either destroyer or you get destroyed.Be it street,ring ,cage or mat.
Where theres a will,theres a way,my friend! ;))

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
This place is getting intense.[/quote]

Not too sure why either.

Borrek,

I get what you are saying. I suspect that some of the issue is the whole skim the OP/Thread and respond method of posting. If not if makes me wonder why someone decides to perform thread necromancy just to argue.

Regards,

Robert A

EDIT: Or not.

[quote]borrek wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]borrek wrote:
People have written some good stuff in this thread but here is my experience.

In my judo class we have all body types and sizes, and all manner of workout regimes and lack thereof. I would say that success in judo revolves around how hard you train on the mats, and making yourself step on the mat even when that seems like the last thing your body will support. One of the most important things one gains in judo is true grit and toughness. That comes from time on the mat, and it comes from getting beat but standing back up.

As far as workouts are considered, I’ve been lifting for over a decade, but recently had around 18 months off to recover from a destroyed shoulder (from a judo tournament) I was able to still play judo in that time period, but lifting was impossible. I’m currently just doing Starting Strength to get my big lifts back up to where they were pre-injury. For the past 6 weeks I have been doing judo Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and alternating squat/bench/dead and squat/press/clean on the intervening days. Recovery has actually not been a problem because I am adding a lot of extra calories, and making sure to never go to bed after 10:00pm. ZMA is vital.

One of the other judo players in the class is a cross-fit guru. One of the best judo players I have ever met does nothing but body weight exercises. Many don’t workout at all and only do judo. I would consider all successful at judo because they have figured out how to make the most out of their advantages and minimize their disadvantages.

Also don’t worry about people that say twice a week isn’t good enough. The point of judo is not to be an olympian in six months. Find a way to balance it with your life so that you can still be training 10 years down the road.[/quote]

Bullshit.

1.they were great judokas before ZMA was invented.Fact.So the fucking ZMA is NOT VITAL.

2.so you are saying twice a week of judo is enough? for who 80-year old granny?
judokas in Japan train 8 hours a day!
[/quote]

Dude, get a grip. I wasn’t saying that ZMA is vital for judo, but I was saying that if you plan on recovering from both judo and hard weightlifting, then sleep is needed, and ZMA helps you sleep.

Judoka in Japan do not train 8 hours a day. Maybe the prefecture and collegiate competitors do, but 90% do not. You have no idea what you’re fucking talking about.
[/quote]

I do boxing and weights hard and I sleep just fine without any extra fucking zinc,magnessium or any other shit.

I got that 8 hour a day judo training shit from Martin Rooney who went there.
As Judokas in my fucking Eastern European country do 4-5 hours a day,I imagine workoholics like Japanese do more.Youre just arguing for the sake of arguing.