At this point, I would really like to see a video.
How much development could you see in such a short timeframe?
[quote]tsantos wrote:
I think if you’re not going into powerlifting you should go ATG.
My reasoning is because:
- as a human (assuming no injury, arthritis, etc) you should have the mobility to get in that position (and structural strength to sit in the hole for 10 minutes). If you don’t actively squat in this way, your chances of working to keep that sort of mobility/strength up are fuck all
- ATG squats are just more impressive, even for much lighter weight
[/quote]
How are you defining ‘atg’ here? If what you mean is squatting to the point where your hamstrings are against your calves, I might agree. If you mean your ass should literally be very close to the ground, I disagree. I would consider Amit Sapir to be a healthy human, and that dude can barely break parallel. In fact, before working with Chris Duffin, he couldn’t even do that, with or without a bar on his back. His legs are massive, and his knees have a tendency to shoot forward in his natural squat from his years as an Oly lifter. This results in a relatively high position at the bottom of his squat.
I completely disagree with the second statement. ‘Even for much lighter weight’ is what I take issue with there. But of course this is just my opinion on what is and what is not impressive.
[quote]howareyoumeduck wrote:
What I’ve come up with is, warm up with the empty bar as usual, 10 reps. Then do 5 reps ‘atg’ with 60,70,80,90 and 100. Then go to 120 and do my usual work out. My back and shoulders are coming on really well, and putting 120kg on my back is adding mass to my whole body and do not want to shrink/lose strength as mentioned. With the ‘warm up sets’ I will squat atg and when the weight gets abit heavier 90/100kg I can at least hit parallel.
So, with the 120kg ‘not quite parallel squats’, it would work to keep adding 1.25kg each side of the bar if I hit 5x5 every workout. The depth may not be there, but the development I am seeing from putting this load on my back is great. Also because I am putting my body under this load, the lower weight atg squatting should improve, along with the weight. That’s my thinking anyway.[/quote]
Really, I think you’re overcomplicating things.
If you want the benefits of deeper squats, you should actually do your work sets with deeper squats. Trying to do deep warmups but above-parallel work sets isn’t really going to give you those benefits.
At this point you are gonna get results either way. But I believe parallel squats are more beneficial long term. Also it would be a good idea to post a video.
OP,
Just keep in mind that the majority of people here are beginners who read a few articles, saw a few videos, and think they know a few tings because they are so weak that progress will happen anyway. I am still a beginner, but the one thing that upsets me the most is the amount of squat-bashing that goes on through internet forums. I’m sure people comment on my “knee cave”, though if you research you will find it has legitimate uses as far as muscling up heavier weights (I do not advocate this to a beginner, as far as developing habits is concerned, however).
I’m sure people may comment on how my sets at 135, 225, 315 may all be much deeper than when I get up to heavier weights (because the weight is much easier so, heck, why not), but then suddenly a 365lb squat to parallel is less impressive than 135 A2G. I’m also sure that my “atrocious” form when squatting high-rep for multiple sets receives comments from the same person squatting similar weight for a max.
I have actually had a small dude recently tell my lifting partner he “isn’t a fan of my form because I have too much lean-forward” on my heavier sets. I am a beginning and his A2G squat max hasn’t broached 300lbs as long as I’ve seen him in the gym, so different goals and different methods for everybody.
Take everything here said with a grain of salt, except TheP3wnisher (who I find myself often supporting in threads as he has a fairly reasonable approach to things, IMO). Squatting to parallel or slightly above got me through my first major plateau, but I will fully admit that it led to some bad habits down the road and now I am trying to be more conscious. I think you should squat as deep as you feel comfortable squatting, but as you get more experiences you will be able to see whether you are copping out on depth to make a set easier, up the weight.
Sorry for the extended rant… I think I just rambled so much I lost my train of thought. If in doubt, why not just incorporate very deep squats with light weight, as well as heavier work to parallel or slightly above (helps to have somebody spot-check you if you’re unsure of how to feel this yourself). Heck, throw in heavy partials if you want… if it helps you feel more comfortable with heavier weights.
Edit: Also, worth mentioning… yes, you will feel different styles of squats in different places… I find that A2G squats personally hit me way more in the glutes, adductors, abductors, and basically most areas of the upper thigh. I think a lot of people may have issues with leg size due to this dogma of A2G squatting (which, again, in some instances could be better for leg development depending on an individual’s structure). This, I guess, is the journey so have fun finding out whatever works for you, just be conscious enough to avoid injury as much as possible (personally, I also am more concerned with getting stronger than longevity, etc., and I am sure that my tune may change farther down the road, but for now I haven’t had too much major issues and yet I know a ton of people that shy away from heavy work after injuries, but I feel like learning to work through and around them has only helped to strengthen me and ensure that similar injuries do not occur in the future).
That being said, why not just post up a video of your A2G squat vs. a parallel/slightly above parallel spot? Go through periods rotating between them, see which you think brings your leg size up, leg strength up (in a limited ROM vs. a more full ROM, whatever is more important to you). I think a lot of issues would be solved so much quicker on these forums if people just let their ego die and put themselves out their for full critique. The story I mentioned about the small kid who critiqued my lean forward… has led me to do much less belt-work, focus a lot more on trying to stay as upright as possible (even on heavier sets), and even consider more quad work (as I understand that too much lean-forward can be a symptom of weak legs, allowing the posterior chain to take over). Fuck it, you can learn from anybody, right? So, I will see what works for me…
Get some weightlifting shoes, and learn to high bar squat and front squat, Olympic style.
I’ve had knee problems for years, but after several months squatting this way, my knees feel so much better, and I got stronger in every other lift. I can actually squat every workout without waking up in pain the following day. My mobility has improved greatly, and I feel much more athletic. Also, my quads won’t stop growing, along with everything else, and I’m getting leaner without trying. I started with an empty bar and am gradually working my way up.
I also learn a lot from watching videos of pro’s squatting (or just training in general). I just trawl YouTube looking for videos of Pyrros Dimas, Lu Xiaojun, Dimitry Klokov etc., and just watch them over and over. The next time I workout, I improve, despite not having done anything physical. I used to do the same thing when I played golf and it helped tremendously.
Also, fix weaknesses. Six months ago, if I tried to overhead squat, I’d fall over. Now I can do it easily. I didn’t use any fancy mobility drills or equipment, just kept forcing my body into position, and eventually, the right muscles started firing and the position became more comfortable. Also, train your abs, specifically, your deep abdominals. Three exercises I recommend are: planks, squat while holding a 5-10kg plate out in front of you, while bracing your core, and glute bridges (use your abs to posteriorly tilt your pelvis).
I also do cleans and snatches, and above all, the most significant increases in strength come when I get aggressive. Really psyche yourself up, get tight (in the right places), and explode. Don’t be casual when you are lifting.