Squatting Opinions

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
21

all i said was that making a habit of bouncing with squats isn’t a good idea. it’s just very common to lose their tightness in the bottom of the squat and lose the stability of the supporting musculature.

guess what happens then? injuries.

so no matter who it is, elite or noob, be careful with bouncing. you need to monitor it carefully.

and where was the 180 degree turn? in my original post i clearly stated that bouncing can be done responsibly, i just admonish AGAINST making it a 100% of the time habit.

22

[quote]wressler125 wrote:
Depends on what I feel like. I like to alternate. I agree with all the other points made here.

However, sometimes I like heavy weight, sometimes I like a greater ROM.[/quote]

Agreed…just depends on the mood I’m in. Mostly I go parallel so I can load the weight up…but every 4th leg day I’ll switch it up and do it OLY style.

23

[quote]Northcott wrote:
I take a very wide stance, toes out, and go to parallel/just below.

I’ve tried the narrower stance, but every time I start to crest over 200 lbs it kills my knees. I end up having trouble walking the next day. Oddly enough, I don’t get the same problem doing front squats. So in training I alternate between sumo squats and front squats.[/quote]

I do this same deal. Powerlifting style to just below parallel, and I do front squats ATG.

If I do oly style squats ATG my knees kill me, even though my form is awesome. It just wasn’t meant to be (probably from years of bad squat form before I learned how to do it properly).

24

[quote]hueyOT wrote:
Jinx Me wrote:
Sounds like that kid is basically using poor technique to get away with lifting more weight to satisfy his ego. If he really wanted to see results (strength and hypertrophy), he’d drop his weight and use his muscles, not gravity and momentum, to move the weight.

As for me, I mix it up - heavier weights to parallel, lighter weights below, different stances… 'Course it’s easy to mix it up when you squat several times a week. Now that I’m cutting back to once a week, I’m going for a happy medium - below parallel, though not exactly ATG, using as much weight as I can handle.

you can still make excellent size and strength gains by using your stretch reflex.

muscle fibres can be some serious activation when the weight is heavy and you generate a lot of explosiveness when bouncing out of the bottom of a motion.

you need to be careful, however… making a habit of bouncing will absolutely lead to injuries over time.[/quote]

fair enough - maybe i’ll learn this technique sometime.

25

[quote]parksah wrote:
hello, long time reader, dont usually post too often though,

I would like to get some oppinions from the T-Nation on how everyone likes to squat, so my questions to you are:

-Do you squat so your femur is parallel to the floor?

-Do you go so low that your ass is basically touching the ground? (ATG)

In my gym there is a guy around 18-19 years old that is about 5’11 to 6’, couldnt weigh more than 180lbs and completely mystifies me, when i first saw him squat he got up to 340+lbs ass to ground, but i noticed he drops and instantly pops the weight up at the bottom with the moment of reflex,

i have spoke with him and he said he hasnt ever tried stopping at parallel and he finds going down resonably quick and using that pop at the bottom to lift the weight is far easier than a slow lift, do you guys find this dangerous? Is he only able to do this because of his age and we havent seen any damaging effects that time would reveal?

ps. 340+lbs isnt a giagantic amount of weight by any means but for a taller person compared to a shorter person of that weight i consider it pretty damn impressive.

I am just torn between doing ATG and parallel and wanted some oppinions and possible progress people have experienced.

Thanks all,

[/quote]

I squatted like that for a long time, and never had knee problems (once I stopped doing leg extensions-they had me in constant pain). What I found, however was that although I was particularly built to squat this way, I built strength better squatting wide to parallel. At one point, for example, I had squatted 335 both very wide, and deep with a fast rebound.

I had committed to using the Westside wide stance exclusively for a year and brought my wide stance squat up to 410 and missed 415 but just after maxing, I decided to give it a try the old close, deep and fast way, and I got the 415 and 425 as well. In other words, it was actually better for me to max that way, but useless for me to train that way.

Anyway, I do think that it can be bad on the knees if you are out over the toes with the quads, or if your calves are big, or if you wear wraps.

26

I am not going to get into semantics with you. You wrote the words.

What do you mean “all i said was that making a habit of bouncing with squats isn’t a good idea.”?

Did you not just state that you do it “always”?

Congratulations on being among the “1 out of 100” who can effectively manage a “bounce” in the bottom “always” without incurring devastating injuries.

You must be a technical dynamo and we should all be humbled by your presence.

Clearly nobody else on this forum can match your level of prowess.

Frankly, dude, I don’t think you know nearly as much as you are pretending to, and are now trying to middle of the road it, because you are being challenged.

27

i am lucky, i have received instruction and been lucky enough to learn from a handul of elite lifters <nationally ranked, world’s ranked> and my technique is sound.

i am definitely 1 in 100 with technique, and while i know what to do while bouncing, and know how to maintain stability in the hole through controlling my glutes, hips, and abs when bouncing out… i am also built well to squat. but most guys out there never really receive proper instruction, and learn by copying what they see from other lifters in the gym and from websites . so for most guys who aren’t as lucky as i am to have received instruction from great guys, they shouldn’t make a habit out of bouncing and losing control of the movement when bouncing out of the bottom.

if they don’t ‘catch’ the lift coming out, that is when supporting/stabilizing musculature isn’t activated, and then the knees begin to cave or backk begins to round. long story short: bad bad bad idea.

and frankly i don’t give a shit what you think about me, if anything i’m just here sharing useful information. please excuse me if i’m not a regular in here <although i’ve been on this site with previous accounts for almost 5 years> and ‘chummy’ with all the noobs who are pseudo-experts.

i’m not new to exercise forums, i know exactly what the culture is like in here. everyone benches 300+ online.

28

thanks for all the replies, getting a good basis for how i should continue my squatting, although it seems to be that its still 50/50 with ATG and parallel.

i think my main problem with ATG is the fact my calf muscles are really tight and maintaining a perfect force line is hard, but i’ll just spend some extra time stretching and see how it goes

29

Oh.

I didn’t realize you were trained by “World and National level lifters.” From which federation, might I ask?

Allow me to recant everything.

This is, afterall, the internet, where addition to everybody benching 300, apparently everyone is coached by elite level lifters.

Why is this relevant?

Your point has now migrated to basically one of, “bouncing is OK if you stay tight.”

So the million dollar question is why didn’t you lead with this statement?

And by the way, I am very proud of your 5 year tenure.

Why is this relevant?

Stick to the point.

30

[quote]parksah wrote:
thanks for all the replies, getting a good basis for how i should continue my squatting, although it seems to be that its still 50/50 with ATG and parallel.

i think my main problem with ATG is the fact my calf muscles are really tight and maintaining a perfect force line is hard, but i’ll just spend some extra time stretching and see how it goes

[/quote]

what are your objectives? primarily hypertrophy? primarily strength? a balance of both?

just make sure your objectives never include: ‘to look tough by using a lot of weight’ or ‘to look badass by going excessively low’.

when i did a search of this site for good info regarding the mechanics of the squat and risk of injury from bouncing <didn’t find any good information> i came across a video of some asian lookingt-nation member squatting 295 of 285 for around 8 reps.

if you’ve seen that video, do NOT squat like him. that was some horrible as shit technique, there.

31

Personally I rotate squat styles every few months. What I’ve been doing is working my wide squat up till I start to see my strength gains level off. I’ll then switch to close stance ATG and hit that until I can match what I was doing with the wide stance. Then I’ll switch back to wide stance and start all over. I really think switching it up every so often is key.

32

[quote]Hatebreeder wrote:
Personally I rotate squat styles every few months. What I’ve been doing is working my wide squat up till I start to see my strength gains level off. I’ll then switch to close stance ATG and hit that until I can match what I was doing with the wide stance. Then I’ll switch back to wide stance and start all over. I really think switching it up every so often is key.[/quote]

i think that’s a smart way to do things. rotation will definitely help limit overuse injuries, for one.

33

[quote]parksah wrote:
thanks for all the replies, getting a good basis for how i should continue my squatting, although it seems to be that its still 50/50 with ATG and parallel.

i think my main problem with ATG is the fact my calf muscles are really tight and maintaining a perfect force line is hard, but i’ll just spend some extra time stretching and see how it goes

[/quote]

Try squatting barefoot.

34

Do BOTH squat styles…ATG and powerlifter style and all…adds good variety.

35

[quote]hueyOT wrote:
parksah wrote:
thanks for all the replies, getting a good basis for how i should continue my squatting, although it seems to be that its still 50/50 with ATG and parallel.

i think my main problem with ATG is the fact my calf muscles are really tight and maintaining a perfect force line is hard, but i’ll just spend some extra time stretching and see how it goes

what are your objectives? primarily hypertrophy? primarily strength? a balance of both?

just make sure your objectives never include: ‘to look tough by using a lot of weight’ or ‘to look badass by going excessively low’.
[/quote]

haha i laughed when i read the ’ to look badass’ haha,

my goals are strength and size, but primarily strength, im just hoping the size is coming with it. I have good upper body strength but realized real strength is from the waist down, i always avoided leg workouts and my old workout partners were equally alright with not doing legs so there was no motivation there, but now i’ve sort of branched off from them, still go to the gym with them but when i say im doing legs and they say ‘arms’ or ‘chest’ i just say, alright have fun, the gym i go to not very many people squat or do legs.

36

This is really a pretty good discussion here. Hopefully we can keep it going rather than let it degenerate into a flamewar?

Obviously, any time you “bounce” out of a lift rather than pausing at the bottom you are eliciting a stretch reflex and will (or at least SHOULD) be significantly stronger. A lot of times this is people just using bad form and literally bouncing the bar or their body off a physical object- just go into a college gym and see all the guys literally bouncing the bar off their chest. This isn’t getting any sort of sretch reflex (other than from the way too tight tee-shirt they’re most likely wearing), and I agree that there probably is a good chance for injury somewhere here. However, trying to properly use the elastic qualities of your muscles shouldn’t be confused with shitty form. In fact, I think anybody who is training for speed or power (or even maximal strength to some extent) should really try to become proficient in using and developing their reactive strength.

I think the logical way to do this is to work through a progresion… absorb, stabilize, then react. Some people (usually people who are naturally athletic) can do this naturally, some have to learn- but I think anybody can. Work through slow force absorbtion and stabilization exercises, to faster force absorbtion and ultimately to reactive “power” drills.

A progression like this.

1.) Isometrics in the bottom position.
2.) Slow, heavy eccentrics to bottom position.
3.) Quicker eccentrics with lower weight (70%ish) focusing on “sticking the landing.”
4.) Faster eccentrics to a quick rebound out of the hole with a lower weight (40-50%ish).

Obviously if you are just going for hypertrophy, I don’t think you want to really focus on training your reactivity. It might help you lift more weights and do it faster, but I doubt it’s going to help your muscles develop faster.

My $.02, I’d like to see some other comments.

37

[quote]Majin wrote:
For quad development it’s best to do them all the way(or at least below parallel) with toes and knees shoulder width and pointing strainght forward. Obviously weight will drop.

Toes and knees out and stopping at parallel will help use more weight which is practiced by athletes alot.

I prefer all the way for complete range of motion. Guess you should try both and see where they take you. [/quote]

I have somewhat long femurs and I can’t seem to get passed parallel without rounding my back somewhat. And I dont want to do that! Do you have any suggestions for me if I want to build my quads?

38

[quote]Il Don wrote:
Majin wrote:
For quad development it’s best to do them all the way(or at least below parallel) with toes and knees shoulder width and pointing strainght forward. Obviously weight will drop.

Toes and knees out and stopping at parallel will help use more weight which is practiced by athletes alot.

I prefer all the way for complete range of motion. Guess you should try both and see where they take you.

I have somewhat long femurs and I can’t seem to get passed parallel without rounding my back somewhat. And I dont want to do that! Do you have any suggestions for me if I want to build my quads?[/quote]

How is your flexibility?

Rounding the back may be to maintain balance because your heels may be lifting due to tight calfs, tight muscles overall

if i were you, i would firstly try lowering the weight much lower, if you can do ass to grass with the lower weight without rounding then i would take it as you not being able to keep your same weight amounts with going below parallel

if you still round your back then i would look at it being flexibility.

if you are a flexible person then i would try moving your arms closer to your body which naturally puffs your chest and your less likely to round your back, this is what i do anyways

these are merely suggestions and i am sure theres an expert who can pinpoint the problem for ya

39

I just started doing atg squats 2 weeks ago after doing wide stance for 4 years. my knees have been a little stiff on the days after squatting atg, so is that to be expected and should it go away after a few more weeks of getting used to it? its not really pain so it wouldnt stop me from doing it but since i play basketball a few times a week its more annoying then anything. also, since im an athlete atg is supposed to be better anyway right?

40

[quote]BobDigiNY wrote:
I just started doing atg squats 2 weeks ago after doing wide stance for 4 years. my knees have been a little stiff on the days after squatting atg, so is that to be expected and should it go away after a few more weeks of getting used to it? its not really pain so it wouldnt stop me from doing it but since i play basketball a few times a week its more annoying then anything. also, since im an athlete atg is supposed to be better anyway right? [/quote]

CT recommend ATG squat for athletes. In fact, in his money exercises article he states that high-bar close stance full squat is the only way an anthlete should squat. By the way, if you havent read this article yet, go readt, it’s really good.