Yeah but I was saying it was used as the third exercise, and his range of motion was basically above parallel, and he was literally using 2 plates or less when he was able to do 500+ pounds at 22. It was the system of everything he did that worked, not his 225 pound 1/2 squats
[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
I also recall Schwarzenneger later in his career, and Dorian Yates, both 6-7X Mr.Olympia’s switching to lower weight squats ONLY on a smith machine, and even with their feet in front of them.
It seems like this has been a common,widely known principle.[/quote]
It’s not a principle; it’s a practice used by SOME.
You’ve seen people with great development with exercises other than squats. There are also people with great leg development who never gave up squats.
There are men who abandoned flat barbell bench presssing because they didn’t get as much pec development as when using dumbbells. There are also men with great chests who never gave up the barbell bench press. Does this make barbell bench presses a useless exercise?
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
There certainly are pros that claim they didn’t squat much, and I suppose we must take them at their word. I personally have never known a lifter with big legs that didn’t squat; I beleive they are out there, like lotto winners, but in twenty-five years of training I have never met one personally. [/quote]
Exactly. And the guys with outrageous wheels all at least started with squats, did them for several YEARS, and built up to some hefty poundages before abandoning them.
OP, you do know Dorian did squats for SIX YEARS, working up to poundages in the mid 500’s for moderate reps, before abandoning them because of a severe hip injury, right? That was quite a bit of squatting! And yes, he did make a freakish transformation in years after, but he still recommended those with the right anatomical makeup to continue doing them for as long as possible. Dorian has more of a deadlifter’s body than a squatter’s–long legs and a short torso.
How about a video of Ethan7x squatting for multiple worksets - fourth or fifth exercise in his workout.
Then, at least, we can be sure his depth and form are fine (low and conducive to bodybuilding purposes).
Also, consider front squats.
Bodybuilding is generally a “do whatever the eff you want” kinda thing. As long as you get the results. Nothing is A MUST.
I’d be interested to see a vid of 500lb squatters with zero muscle.
The problem with this simplification is the fact that if you ONLY use back squat for legs you have to win the genetic lottery to achieve large, well shaped thighs.
Some guidelines to achieve this would be balanced quads with well developed vastus internus and externus. Fully developed thigh biceps from insertion to attachment. Detail is needed in the adductors to show off good upper thigh detail. Delineation all over and most importantly in the sartorius. Deep seperations from hips to knees are a must. It easy to see that only using squats probably isn’t going to do the trick.
That being said, no one squats 400-500 lbs in controlled good from without having legs that look like they can. There are plenty of people who squat 400-500 lbs who don’t have large and well developed thighs making them appear smaller then they truly are
In my experience, focusing mainly on back squats as my leg exercise left me with big legs but disproportional upper thighs, hips and glutes in comparison to my less developed lower quad development. Oddly enough my hamstrings were more developed closer to the knee with much less development near the glutes.
It’s not that back squats don’t work for you, it’s that you’re training like a powerlifter with an emphasis to improve your 1 rep max. Next time you squat start with the bar and do ten reps, add a 25 lb plate and do ten reps, then have a 45 on each side and do ten reps and keep going until you can’t hit ten reps. I’ve low bar powerlifting style back squatted 5 plates a side for two reps but if I go with a high bar placement and try and actually build my legs and not build my squat, then I’ll have trouble doing 3 plates a side
if i may give my (limited) two cents…
i only train since feb 2012 have never done anything more than squats or deadlift for my legs. my legs have gained a lot of size and not to mention my ass. i have several pants that are a pain to wear now. i have always stayed in the low rep range using weights that are PRs nearly every workout (gotta love being a beginner).
a friend of mine who trains for over 4 years only uses machines like leg press and stuff he says squatting is bad for the knees, his legs are pathetic. maybe it’s only his huge upper body that make them look so small but even if it’s only that; squats are an amazing tool to keep a balanced physique. strength and aesthetics wise.
Squats are great if done properly. Steady, controlled negative, no lock out at the top and keeping constant tension on the muscle. You won’t be able to lift as much but the thights light up after 4-5 sets of 8-12.
Dorian dosn’t squat… Dorian can also rep 500 pound squats if you ask him to.
this reminds me of the guys who watch Kai saying how he is not a weightlifter and the squeeze is the most important thing, next to a video of him hardcore bench pressing 500 pound inclines.
person A: squats heavy weights and say, you know what , this isn’t working for me
person B: 315 squat makes his back look like a candy cane before crushing into the ground “this isn’t working for me, ill use leg press for size instead”
whats my point? get fucking stronger and do squats before you decide to ditch’em.
as much as we bodybuilders like to get away from our chubby:) powerlifting friends, we can learn a few things from them. the squat/dead/bench are the foundation of the trained human male. if you want to do other things you best have a very good fucking reason.
There are different types of squats, each deliverying distinct results for different lifters. Try front squats and overhead squats besides your back squats and see what happens.
Also, as someone mentioned, try doing 10 reps or so. Okay, at least try 5 reps for several sets.
You probably won’t because it’s not as fun as squatting for 1 or 2 reps with a shit-load of weight, but if your goals are quad muscle hypertrophy then do it. Otherwise you’ll end up training your ass more than your quads.
Squats are the best exercise for legs unless you are higher than 188 or 6’2,especially 20 rep sets.
Arnold said many times it is best exercise to build mass in legs and no other exercise can build the basic mass like squatz.
Ok guys thanks for the response.I will try keeping squats then in my bodybuilding routine,and make the sets look like this,unless you guys suggest otherwise.
Squat:
10 reps @ 70% max
8 reps @ 70% max
6 reps @ 70% max
4-6 reps @ 70% max
15 reps backoff (aim for 20)
When I get 6 reps on the 4th set, I will increase the weight on the first 4. When I get 20 reps on the backoff set with the weight I use, I will increase the weight on the 5th set.
We’ll see what happens
[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
Squat:
10 reps @ 70% max
8 reps @ 70% max
6 reps @ 70% max
4-6 reps @ 70% max
15 reps backoff (aim for 20)
When I get 6 reps on the 4th set, I will increase the weight on the first 4. When I get 20 reps on the backoff set with the weight I use, I will increase the weight on the 5th set.
We’ll see what happens[/quote]
IMO…
when you get 6 on the 4th set: change set 2 from 8 to 10. Change set 3 from 6 to 8. leave set 4 at 6. If you hit those reps in the next workout then…Change set 3 from 8 to 10. change set 4 from 6 to 8. If you hit those reps in the next workout then…Change set 4 from 8 to 10.
When you get all four sets at 10 increase the bar weight 20-30lbs and repeat. I wouldn’t worry about pushing the bar weight on the set of 20, but it should be at a weight that makes you feel like your dying at 15 and have to lay down for a minute ot two after you are done.
[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
Ok guys thanks for the response.I will try keeping squats then in my bodybuilding routine,and make the sets look like this,unless you guys suggest otherwise.
Squat:
10 reps @ 70% max
8 reps @ 70% max
6 reps @ 70% max
4-6 reps @ 70% max
15 reps backoff (aim for 20)
When I get 6 reps on the 4th set, I will increase the weight on the first 4. When I get 20 reps on the backoff set with the weight I use, I will increase the weight on the 5th set.
We’ll see what happens[/quote]
looks nasty, btw phil hernon suggests that the best thing you can do for quads is squat three times a week going from lighter to heavier or from heavier to lighter, and my quads have never blown up as much as they did when I was doing Rippetoes and squatting 3x a week. Just something to think about
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
Squat:
10 reps @ 70% max
8 reps @ 70% max
6 reps @ 70% max
4-6 reps @ 70% max
15 reps backoff (aim for 20)
When I get 6 reps on the 4th set, I will increase the weight on the first 4. When I get 20 reps on the backoff set with the weight I use, I will increase the weight on the 5th set.
We’ll see what happens[/quote]
IMO…
when you get 6 on the 4th set: change set 2 from 8 to 10. Change set 3 from 6 to 8. leave set 4 at 6. If you hit those reps in the next workout then…Change set 3 from 8 to 10. change set 4 from 6 to 8. If you hit those reps in the next workout then…Change set 4 from 8 to 10.
When you get all four sets at 10 increase the bar weight 20-30lbs and repeat. I wouldn’t worry about pushing the bar weight on the set of 20, but it should be at a weight that makes you feel like your dying at 15 and have to lay down for a minute ot two after you are done. [/quote]
I just looked at what you wrote,and although it’s cool, I just feel it’s too complicated for me lol =p
I’ll just pick 1 weight, do it for 10,8,6,4-6 then drop off with a 15-20.
If I get 6 reps on the 4th set, I’ll increase everything by 5 pounds and try to get 10,8,6,4-6 again rinse and repeat
[quote]myself1992 wrote:
[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
Ok guys thanks for the response.I will try keeping squats then in my bodybuilding routine,and make the sets look like this,unless you guys suggest otherwise.
Squat:
10 reps @ 70% max
8 reps @ 70% max
6 reps @ 70% max
4-6 reps @ 70% max
15 reps backoff (aim for 20)
When I get 6 reps on the 4th set, I will increase the weight on the first 4. When I get 20 reps on the backoff set with the weight I use, I will increase the weight on the 5th set.
We’ll see what happens[/quote]
looks nasty, btw phil hernon suggests that the best thing you can do for quads is squat three times a week going from lighter to heavier or from heavier to lighter, and my quads have never blown up as much as they did when I was doing Rippetoes and squatting 3x a week. Just something to think about[/quote]
Yeah now that I look at it, it is pretty nasty…
280x10,280x8,280x6,then 280x4-6 followed by maybe 185x15-20 or something…
I will report back how the first day goes…lol.
Yeah,I think the real key is to have high rep/volume work for growth as Phil said.I think sitting in the 2,3,5 rep range is most likely the main reason the results haven’t been great for me.
So based on what you are saying, do you mean for example to do session one at 65%, session two at 67.5%, and session 3 at 70% based on what you just said, and just add weight to all 3 days if I get them all(or vice versa)?
[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
[quote]myself1992 wrote:
[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
Ok guys thanks for the response.I will try keeping squats then in my bodybuilding routine,and make the sets look like this,unless you guys suggest otherwise.
Squat:
10 reps @ 70% max
8 reps @ 70% max
6 reps @ 70% max
4-6 reps @ 70% max
15 reps backoff (aim for 20)
When I get 6 reps on the 4th set, I will increase the weight on the first 4. When I get 20 reps on the backoff set with the weight I use, I will increase the weight on the 5th set.
We’ll see what happens[/quote]
looks nasty, btw phil hernon suggests that the best thing you can do for quads is squat three times a week going from lighter to heavier or from heavier to lighter, and my quads have never blown up as much as they did when I was doing Rippetoes and squatting 3x a week. Just something to think about[/quote]
Yeah now that I look at it, it is pretty nasty…
280x10,280x8,280x6,then 280x4-6 followed by maybe 185x15-20 or something…
I will report back how the first day goes…lol.
Yeah,I think the real key is to have high rep/volume work for growth as Phil said.I think sitting in the 2,3,5 rep range is most likely the main reason the results haven’t been great for me.
So based on what you are saying, do you mean for example to do session one at 65%, session two at 67.5%, and session 3 at 70% based on what you just said, and just add weight to all 3 days if I get them all(or vice versa)?
[/quote]
I didn’t say it for you to do your sessions at different ranges, I just mentioned it so that you had another example of squats building huge legs. That being said, how many sessions a week are you having? If you’re only having one session a week then don’t vary your ranges, if you have more than one then I think it would be beneficial