Squats Beneficial For Fighting?

Training
21

Do you need squats to kick harder? Not neccessarily. If you are a weakling to start with, then you probably cant hit hard regardless. The guys that dont lift weights and hit hard, are strong through other methods or naturally.

I would say being able to squat alot helps me kick harder (front kick and back kick particularly), but I also kicked pretty hard before I weight trained.

If you are competing, its one thing, and you need to prioritize training economy. If you are training for self defense, then being stronger and larger helps alot.

When I used to compete, I lifted, but minimally. Now that I dont compete in fightsports at the moment, I have put on weight and strength. I hit harder, but I already had good tech to start with. If I planned on competing again, I would minimize the weights and maximize tech training.

22

Squats are a must for any MMA fighter, grappler, boxer, etc. They boost natural hormone levels, increase contractile strength, increase core stability, increase tendon/ligament strength which helps prevent injury, and much more. This means that force transfer from the floor to punches is going to be higher as well as improved kicking power.

This is due to the increase stability and control of the pelvic girdle that squats will help develop. In general, unless you have a mobility issue/injury, squat and dead-lift. Only going to help the cause. If worried about size, keep the reps to less than 5. Also, Olympic lifts are fantastic for developing explosive force, full body coordination, and powerful lower limb extension. Really no arguing that squats will increase kick power, just gotta look at it from the bigger picture.

23

[quote]DeadKong wrote:
Just because this thread is already getting some response, I cut my leg work down to a 5 X 5 of deadlifts. Might I be better off alternating weeks between that and squats? I post in over 35 lifter and have to be conscious of my recovery ability so my lifting isn’t intended to go overboard.[/quote]

I just watched a couple of your bagwork videos, I’m going to post on your log about it later and you and me are going to have a conversation about form and what not. I want to have time to read over your workout first though

24

[quote]Ckenney wrote:
Squats are a must for any MMA fighter, grappler, boxer, etc. They boost natural hormone levels, increase contractile strength, increase core stability, increase tendon/ligament strength which helps prevent injury, and much more. This means that force transfer from the floor to punches is going to be higher as well as improved kicking power.

This is due to the increase stability and control of the pelvic girdle that squats will help develop. In general, unless you have a mobility issue/injury, squat and dead-lift. Only going to help the cause. If worried about size, keep the reps to less than 5. Also, Olympic lifts are fantastic for developing explosive force, full body coordination, and powerful lower limb extension. Really no arguing that squats will increase kick power, just gotta look at it from the bigger picture.[/quote]

It will absolutely help the cause, but I wonder if Squats and deadlifts will truly result in practical and noticeable improvements in things like punching power. I mean, drastically more than the fighter could be achieving with heavy bag work, and improved technique training. I still consider the Olympic lifts superior to standard squats and deadlifts in this regard. I’ve seen it other athletes and fighters. I personally haven’t tested the O lifts on myself in a fight prep training log, but I do know that Squats made me much stronger, but also much slower. I was moving more leg around and I wasn’t necessarily getting explosive enough or as explosive as typical fight training achieves. Also, Squats burn your legs out. If you’re training for a fight, you can’t afford to wreck your quads with less than half an hour of squats when you’ve still got all your roadwork, rope jumping, bag work, more roadwork, sparring… no. Oh, and I forgot roadwork.

25

[quote]Pigeonkak wrote:

[quote]Ckenney wrote:
Squats are a must for any MMA fighter, grappler, boxer, etc. They boost natural hormone levels, increase contractile strength, increase core stability, increase tendon/ligament strength which helps prevent injury, and much more. This means that force transfer from the floor to punches is going to be higher as well as improved kicking power.

This is due to the increase stability and control of the pelvic girdle that squats will help develop. In general, unless you have a mobility issue/injury, squat and dead-lift. Only going to help the cause. If worried about size, keep the reps to less than 5. Also, Olympic lifts are fantastic for developing explosive force, full body coordination, and powerful lower limb extension. Really no arguing that squats will increase kick power, just gotta look at it from the bigger picture.[/quote]

It will absolutely help the cause, but I wonder if Squats and deadlifts will truly result in practical and noticeable improvements in things like punching power. I mean, drastically more than the fighter could be achieving with heavy bag work, and improved technique training. I still consider the Olympic lifts superior to standard squats and deadlifts in this regard. I’ve seen it other athletes and fighters. I personally haven’t tested the O lifts on myself in a fight prep training log, but I do know that Squats made me much stronger, but also much slower. I was moving more leg around and I wasn’t necessarily getting explosive enough or as explosive as typical fight training achieves. Also, Squats burn your legs out. If you’re training for a fight, you can’t afford to wreck your quads with less than half an hour of squats when you’ve still got all your roadwork, rope jumping, bag work, more roadwork, sparring… no. Oh, and I forgot roadwork.
[/quote]

They don’t. The hardest punchers in the game never squatted and punching power has as much to do with your leg strength as car color does with a quarter mile time.

If you’re an MMA fighter or grappler, it’s worth it because all kinds of strength is only going to help you, but if you’re a competitive boxer or striker it ain’t worth the time you spend on it.

If I was competing, I would not be squatting like I do.

26

The harder I can dig my foot on a jab, the harder my jab is going to be thrown. The harder I can bring my hips through on an uppercut, the harder it is going to land. It without a doubt has to do with leg strength and core stability. What is one of the best, if not the best, ways to develop this? Hmmmmm…

27

[quote]Ckenney wrote:
The harder I can dig my foot on a jab, the harder my jab is going to be thrown. The harder I can bring my hips through on an uppercut, the harder it is going to land. It without a doubt has to do with leg strength and core stability. What is one of the best, if not the best, ways to develop this? Hmmmmm…[/quote]

Listen, believe it if you want. It does me no harm. And if it helps you think you’re punching harder, by all means do it.

But the FACT is that the hardest punchers that have ever lived, either for their weight or just outright, never did squats.

It’s all technique - in reality, you’re not ‘digging your foot’ on a jab harder whether you can squat one hundred pounds or one thousand, and your hips are not moving harder whether you can deadlift one volkswagon or four. It’s just not how punching works.

Over the three or four millenniums that men have been boxing, every training method has been tried over and over and over again. If strength training to insane levels worked to make everyone a knockout puncher, coaches would do it already.

Instead, they see their fighters who spend lots of time strength training get their teeth busted out by the little Mexican kid who spend all day, every day running, shadowboxing, and hitting the bag.

28

please why does no one consider the fact that heavier weight classes hit harder because they are HEAVIER not because they can put up bigger numbers in the weight room?

29

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
please why does no one consider the fact that heavier weight classes hit harder because they are HEAVIER not because they can put up bigger numbers in the weight room?[/quote]

x2

Also, I never found it mattered how hard someone hit if they couldn’t land cleanly on me, or if I could beat them to the punch. There are so many facets to stand up fighting that have nothing to do with hitting hard that I don’t get the obsession. Like Irish said, doesn’t matter how hard you hit if your opponent is landing 10 punches and you aren’t landing any.

If you have a job that is not pro boxing, then training time is limited, and therefore better spent training to fight. If Floyd mayweather decides that the most useful thing for him at this point in his career is to squat heavy 3 times a week and improve his punching power by a fraction, I’m not going to argue with him. He has reached a skill level that he is unlikely to improve upon, and he has the TIME and RESOURCES, to recover and not have it affect his training. Anyone who is not an elite pro boxer doesn’t have this time. (Maybe the Olympic guys do, at least with the support structure they have in the UK they probably do, but in many ways those guys are already pros).

30

[quote]Ckenney wrote:
The harder I can dig my foot on a jab, the harder my jab is going to be thrown. The harder I can bring my hips through on an uppercut, the harder it is going to land. It without a doubt has to do with leg strength and core stability. What is one of the best, if not the best, ways to develop this? Hmmmmm…[/quote]

Does a bigger squat immediately equate to a bigger vertical? Or is there a cut off point, or a point of diminishing returns? What about sprinting?

We’re talking about two different types of power here, and they lie on opposite ends of the spectrum. One involves no resistance, and the other is all resistance. You’d think you’d hit a point of diminishing returns fairly early.

Granted if I gained weight from squatting and eating, there’d be more weight behind the punch, but that’s different isn’t it.

31

[quote]Ckenney wrote:
The harder I can dig my foot on a jab, the harder my jab is going to be thrown. The harder I can bring my hips through on an uppercut, the harder it is going to land. It without a doubt has to do with leg strength and core stability. What is one of the best, if not the best, ways to develop this? Hmmmmm…[/quote]

I don’t think you properly understand the mechanics of a jab, cross or uppercut or anything like that.

32

[quote]Pigeonkak wrote:

[quote]Ckenney wrote:
The harder I can dig my foot on a jab, the harder my jab is going to be thrown. The harder I can bring my hips through on an uppercut, the harder it is going to land. It without a doubt has to do with leg strength and core stability. What is one of the best, if not the best, ways to develop this? Hmmmmm…[/quote]

I don’t think you properly understand the mechanics of a jab, cross or uppercut or anything like that. [/quote]

I agree… I’m not actually sure what “digging your foot on a jab” actually means come to think of it… front foot I guess?

33

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:

If you have a job that is not pro boxing, then training time is limited, and therefore better spent training to fight. If Floyd mayweather decides that the most useful thing for him at this point in his career is to squat heavy 3 times a week and improve his punching power by a fraction, I’m not going to argue with him. He has reached a skill level that he is unlikely to improve upon, and he has the TIME and RESOURCES, to recover and not have it affect his training. Anyone who is not an elite pro boxer doesn’t have this time. (Maybe the Olympic guys do, at least with the support structure they have in the UK they probably do, but in many ways those guys are already pros).[/quote]

I want to hijack your point, and twist it to my own purpose. You say that if Mayweather chose to squat he could and still recover to continue fight training. Which may or may not be true, but if you look at his programme or that of any big name boxer, they don’t squat shit. And that’s telling. If these guys stood to gain anything from squatting heavy then we as amateur and pro boxers and fans would be squatting for the same results. But the big names don’t do that, despite centuries of pugilism, decades of sports science driven progress and cutting edge training techniques. So we, especially me, are probing the question of whether squats work, but the experts speak volumes with the fact that they just leave heavy lifting alone.

Besides, when I trained for a fight, I left heavy weights alone. I was already risking injury just sparring, running, kicking bags, being tired all the time. I didn’t risk injuring myself being a hero doing weights.

34

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Pigeonkak wrote:

[quote]Ckenney wrote:
The harder I can dig my foot on a jab, the harder my jab is going to be thrown. The harder I can bring my hips through on an uppercut, the harder it is going to land. It without a doubt has to do with leg strength and core stability. What is one of the best, if not the best, ways to develop this? Hmmmmm…[/quote]

I don’t think you properly understand the mechanics of a jab, cross or uppercut or anything like that. [/quote]

I agree… I’m not actually sure what “digging your foot on a jab” actually means come to think of it… front foot I guess?[/quote]

He might be thinking of the rear leg, when you do a step/jump jab? Maybe? Or a harder power jab? Maybe? Either way, no!

35

The same logic is applied to weight training for physical development. “Dont train more than 3 days a week, or heavy sq/dl/bp more than 3x a week and youll overtrain bro”

Then theres people like Konstantinovs and Kazimier who trained in a way that would make any Mens Health writer shit their 150lb pants.

You wanna be a top fighter? Watch what other top fighters do, talk to them, learn.

Self defense…well thats a whole different ball game, because their arent weight classes, rounds, time limits…etc.

So my thoughts are weight training is good for self defense, but has diminishing returns quickly for COMPETITIVE fighters.

36

[quote]666Rich wrote:
The same logic is applied to weight training for physical development. “Dont train more than 3 days a week, or heavy sq/dl/bp more than 3x a week and youll overtrain bro”

Then theres people like Konstantinovs and Kazimier who trained in a way that would make any Mens Health writer shit their 150lb pants.

You wanna be a top fighter? Watch what other top fighters do, talk to them, learn.

Self defense…well thats a whole different ball game, because their arent weight classes, rounds, time limits…etc.

So my thoughts are weight training is good for self defense, but has diminishing returns quickly for COMPETITIVE fighters.

[/quote]

That’s exactly it. I lift because first, I love to, and second, no matter what anyone says, being bigger is a natural deterrent.

37

Last few posts have been golden. I actually train with weights now that I don’t really compete, and although I would probably lose to a version of myself a year or two ago, I look like way more of a badass. Ridiculous, but true.

And Pidgeonkak you are spot on. The absence of heavy weights in top fighters programs is more telling than anything else. After a life time of skill training, these guys still don’t think they would see an worthwhile benefit from squatting heavy (or doing any other form of heavy lifting)

38

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
Last few posts have been golden. I actually train with weights now that I don’t really compete, and although I would probably lose to a version of myself a year or two ago, I look like way more of a badass. Ridiculous, but true.

And Pidgeonkak you are spot on. The absence of heavy weights in top fighters programs is more telling than anything else. After a life time of skill training, these guys still don’t think they would see an worthwhile benefit from squatting heavy (or doing any other form of heavy lifting)[/quote]

Boy, I found this thread at the wrong time. I have to leave now, but have thoughts on this subject.

As far as boxers go, I’d agree squats are useful but not “game-changers” per se. Still I think some version needs to be in a training program as simple leg conditioning. I am not an expert on boxing.

However…

As far as MMA guys go, you can’t live without good squats. Top guys squat, top guys olympic lift, top guys do strongman training. It’s too damn useful in an MMA environment. I’m not talking max strength PL style squatting, but yes I am including good hard, heavy squats.

Also FWIW, Olympic lifting is almost unbeatable for these guys in a lot of ways. Good programs IME combine elements obviously, but yes. Oly lifting is where it’s at for power generation and explosiveness in the cage.

PS regarding boxing I still think squatting will not make you slower for boxing, it is HOW you decide to train the squat itself that determines the carryover to speed or the loss of speed training. Training slow grinders for months on end will make you slow. training fast, dynamic squatting will not slow you down unless we are talking about not recovering well for your boxing technical work and sparring

EDIT: I am not responding to the idea that boxers should squat “heavy ass weight”, just that squatting is beneficial and should be included in SOME form in a program. I think as many people have said here that boxers don’t have shit for a squat–and there is no need to squat “heavy”…but let’s redefine “heavy” here. There’s more than one definition of heavy than the PL/bodybuilder definition. It does not need to be a max weight attempt or near to qualify in my mind. “heavy” is relative to the sport in question, not a universal definition, and therefore we need to consider what could accurately qualify as “heavy” to boxers and MMA artists ( I already have my rough standards for MMA guys, but the recent posts have not been speaking of the mixed martial arts competitors and instead consider boxing).

39

Mike Tysons hit pretty hard and he squats pretty heavy

40

As far as I know, he didn’t get into heavy lifting until after prison.