Squat form (see last post)

Bigger Stronger Leaner Powerlifting & Strength Sports
21

Eh… I’m still hoping that with proper sleep, cycling, and deloading (hmm… cycling… deloading… both deload…) I can get to still be able to DL 400 and BP 220 at 70 years old.

After reading the superb explanation of why one feels very drained after circa-max loads,
http://www.averagebroz.com/ABG/Q_%26_A/Entries/2010/5/28_Central_nervous_system.html
I decided I’ll man up and do more heavy work.

Thank you very much for the advice.

It seems squatting is a good way to improve flexibility for squatting, for I can go a bit deeper now than I could a few weeks ago.

/thread

22

Stern - most of the guys I train with are 50-60’s and still benching 500-600+ (raw), squatting anywhere from 700-1000, and pulling around the same. It’s not necessarily about the style you lift because there are examples of successful powerlifters and olympic lifters that have managed to stay relatively injury free because they’re smart about their training.

Knowing when to shut down and not lifting with your ego as well as constantly trying to perfect form will do more for your longevity than anything. Yes the foam rolling, prehab/rehab/mobility stuff will help undoubtedly, but knowing when to push and when to back off is the most important aspect for a long career. This is a marathon, not a sprint.

If your flexibility and mobility suck for squatting go check out stuff on mobilitywod.com

23

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
Stern - most of the guys I train with are 50-60’s and still benching 500-600+ (raw), squatting anywhere from 700-1000, and pulling around the same. It’s not necessarily about the style you lift because there are examples of successful powerlifters and olympic lifters that have managed to stay relatively injury free because they’re smart about their training.

Knowing when to shut down and not lifting with your ego as well as constantly trying to perfect form will do more for your longevity than anything. Yes the foam rolling, prehab/rehab/mobility stuff will help undoubtedly, but knowing when to push and when to back off is the most important aspect for a long career. This is a marathon, not a sprint.

If your flexibility and mobility suck for squatting go check out stuff on mobilitywod.com[/quote]

Thank you very very much…
500 BP raw, at 60!!! Wow! Ok, I’ve got to make bigger plans!

24

Some good answers here, your knees can come forward but it isnt the way you want to queue it in your head, as someone already said.

If you are failing to get to depth because you cannot keep the heels flat, here is a simple test.

have you tried elevating your heels by stepping on a weight plate?

If not do this with your bodyweight.

If this makes the squat feel better then you have are dealing with an issue of ankle mobility, different than flexibility. If this is the case then add wall ankle mobilizations into your warmup.

And just to disagree, plenty of good raw lifters have a narrow stance. Regardless of what people like L. Simmons insist, people have different anatomical make ups and may be stronger from different positions/leverages.

25

I like a lot of Broz’s (Broz’) ideas but don’t jump straight into high frequency. Pat Mendes, said it took him about 1 and a half years to get used to that style of training. Work into it, at some point everyday or maybe even 2x a day will be possible but it isn’t going to be this month or the next or probably even 2 months from now. Take it slow, its more likely you will continue to squat if you don’t jump into 10 squat sessions the second week.

26

[quote]americaninsweden wrote:
I like a lot of Broz’s (Broz’) ideas but don’t jump straight into high frequency. Pat Mendes, said it took him about 1 and a half years to get used to that style of training. Work into it, at some point everyday or maybe even 2x a day will be possible but it isn’t going to be this month or the next or probably even 2 months from now. Take it slow, its more likely you will continue to squat if you don’t jump into 10 squat sessions the second week.[/quote]

Has Pat Mendez ever done well in a competition? His training videos are cool and all but, where does he place in the world of weightlifting? And why hasn’t he been to the olympics yet?

27

Well, I do one ME DL session/week (5-10 singles, 90…95%) and for the next two months, I’ll also be doing 2 speed DL sessions (until now I had one ME, 1 RE and 1 speed DL, which would usually turn into RE), and squat 3x/week, @70…80% RM, ~20 total reps, trying to get the form down.

If I keep my back neutral instead of arched, I can very well hit parallel using the medium stance (as per Ed Coan). Also, that stance feels best for me.

28

Good luck with that much deadlift. If you actually read up on Broz stuff you’ll realize he deadlifts once in a blue moon and that he says not to dealift multiple times a week as it’s extremely taxing on the CNS.

29

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]americaninsweden wrote:
I like a lot of Broz’s (Broz’) ideas but don’t jump straight into high frequency. Pat Mendes, said it took him about 1 and a half years to get used to that style of training. Work into it, at some point everyday or maybe even 2x a day will be possible but it isn’t going to be this month or the next or probably even 2 months from now. Take it slow, its more likely you will continue to squat if you don’t jump into 10 squat sessions the second week.[/quote]

Has Pat Mendez ever done well in a competition? His training videos are cool and all but, where does he place in the world of weightlifting? And why hasn’t he been to the olympics yet?[/quote]
Well, he started training about 2 (maybe 3) years ago and the last olympics were in 2008, so that makes it kinda hard. It looks highly unlikely that he or any other american will be at the olympics either. That being said, he obviously has work to do in competition, despite winning the national championship (2011). Essentially, he is the best 105+ that America has, assuming healthy , which is a big assumption but he isn’t world class yet. This is all kind of beside the point, because the guy referenced Broz, so i gave him an example of how Broz’s athletes train and how tough of a system that is to become accustomed to.

30

[quote]Sterneneisen wrote:
Well, I do one ME DL session/week (5-10 singles, 90…95%) and for the next two months, I’ll also be doing 2 speed DL sessions (until now I had one ME, 1 RE and 1 speed DL, which would usually turn into RE), and squat 3x/week, @70…80% RM, ~20 total reps, trying to get the form down.

If I keep my back neutral instead of arched, I can very well hit parallel using the medium stance (as per Ed Coan). Also, that stance feels best for me. [/quote]

How long have you been lifting? Do you write your own programs?

31

Been deadlifting for three years now. Started with 50 lbs in order to learn to keep my spine in neutral. Also, about 3 years (total) of chinning.

Since I couldn’t do any presses until now, and also my back hurt during squatting until recently, and my weights were too low for any of the consecrated DL programs, yes, I pretty much had to “write” my own program.

Hey, you can recover from a lot more deadlifts if you do… nothing else, can’t you?

32

[quote]Sterneneisen wrote:
Been deadlifting for three years now. Started with 50 lbs in order to learn to keep my spine in neutral. Also, about 3 years (total) of chinning.

Since I couldn’t do any presses until now, and also my back hurt during squatting until recently, and my weights were too low for any of the consecrated DL programs, yes, I pretty much had to “write” my own program.

Hey, you can recover from a lot more deadlifts if you do… nothing else, can’t you?[/quote]

At your levels you could, but I would get bored as hell after a while. Do yourself a favor, learn proper form, if you really need help video tape yourself squatting and benching and post it on here asking for help. Also find a proven routine, something like 5/3/1, WS4SB3, Texas Method, or Starting Strength, run that program until you can’t progress anymore, deload, then run it again. And just in case you might be right now, DON’T stretch your lower back out, ever. If you can hyperextend your spine already, you don’t need more flexibility there.

33

5/3/1 didn’t work for me. Did it for ~3 months, didn’t progress much. Progressed a lot faster by DLing more often.
Yep, I’ll take vids of my squats and BPs and post’em here. Charging up the camera for tomorrow.

No, I’m not stretching my lower back, I avoid end-range flexion like the plague, both in and out of the gym. Non-end-range flexion, OTOH, got me rid of heaps of back pain.

Anyway, thanks.

34

Honestly is 5/3/1 didn’t “work” for you, and you aren’t an advanced lifter, than you probably managed to do something wrong. I’ve even seen advanced lifters make great progress using 5/3/1

35

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]americaninsweden wrote:
I like a lot of Broz’s (Broz’) ideas but don’t jump straight into high frequency. Pat Mendes, said it took him about 1 and a half years to get used to that style of training. Work into it, at some point everyday or maybe even 2x a day will be possible but it isn’t going to be this month or the next or probably even 2 months from now. Take it slow, its more likely you will continue to squat if you don’t jump into 10 squat sessions the second week.[/quote]

Has Pat Mendez ever done well in a competition? His training videos are cool and all but, where does he place in the world of weightlifting? And why hasn’t he been to the olympics yet?[/quote]

True. wierd. y hasnt he really goten far? serious queation

36

^ They wouldn’t let him in the olympics because he didn’t know how to spell or use punctuation. =)

37

I took more steps than usual when walking out because the previous set (92 kg) I’d hit the rack when going down, and also in order to make sure my form is clear. The lighting wasn’t on my side, though.

38

Do you lift in the bat cave with no lights?

Can’t tell for sure from that angle but looks high on your 102. Also, get your chin up, pack the neck. Get tighter in your upper back.

Can’t really offer much insight on the lower half of your body mechanics due to poor lighting and angle. Side angles always work best to analyze from.

39

Agree with Mercury on lighting…HOWEVER, I see one very big glaring problem. You are initiating the squat with your knees. This. Is. BAD. It is the opposite of what you want to do with an Ed Coan style squat or a Louie Simmons wide squat. This is one big reason, maybe the only reason, you are having trouble going to parallel–stop it immediately. Initiating from the knees makes it very easy, almost inevitable for many people to squat ONTO their knees, instead of BETWEEN them. It is hard due to the video angle and low lighting to tell if this a problem for you, but it very likely is. Go check out this for learning how to squat between your knees properly–

The Video FitCast- Episode 6 - YouTube --the first portion of this is absolute gold. Listen to everything Dan John.

You initiate all squats with your hips, not your knees bending. Now, there is a borderline exception for Olympic squats, but not enough to matter for you–besides many olympic lifters initiate their narrow stance squats at the hip as well so it doesn’t really make it ok for you (their timing and pace is so fast it is sometimes hard to tell on video, but in person it’s easier to see).

So, no matter what kind of squat you are doing–parallel, wide, olympic, front-- always, ALWAYS initiate from the hips. Break the hips BACK, not down, first. This doesn’t mean you start to do a good morning or a romanian deadlift. But it does mean the hips are the first to move.

Plus side, your back looks neutral and stable in the hole, so you’re not inducing lumbar flexion. I would look at the adductor/abductor and hip flexors mobility and soft tissue quality for getting deeper, as well as your ankle mobility (yes mobility is much different than flexibility, something I may have mistermed in my last post unintentionally as I was stream-of-consciousness posting, I don’t remember).

However, it all starts with initiating at the hips FIRST, and simultaneously pushing the knees OUT, not forward.

40

It seems it was a really good thing to take these vids.

Thank you LM, and thank you Aragorn.

While I consciously try to keep a neutral back (not arched), I didn’t notice that I have my head forward. Will pack neck and begin breaking from the hips starting next session.

I’m very glad though that my back doesn’t (seem to) round; as long as my back is fine, I have ~20 years ahead of me to improve my squat; a few months ago it rounded at the bottom, and as such it hurt pretty bad the next day… and as such I stopped squatting shortly after I began.

Strangely, if I round my back a little on DLs, I just get horrendous soreness in my erectors. If I round it on squats, I get back pain, but not soreness.