Squat Every Day

Training Powerlifting
21

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
Back Squat up to max w/ back down sets

I am experiencing no general soreness and feel pumped and ready to go pretty much every day.[/quote]

Why are you maxing 5 days per week? Plan a progression and make sure you’re using sub-max loads on some days. Trying to go to max every day is just a recipe for frying your CNS and/or getting injured. You should incorporate a combination of heavy, moderate, and light days.

I definitely believe in squatting every day, but it needs to be done intelligently. It’s just not sustainable otherwise. I typically snatch, squat, and hit a pressing move at every session, but I rarely use max loads (a heavy day for me is usually about 90% of my max). Maxing every day is completely unsustainable, and I would not be surprised if your numbers continued to go down if you don’t change that.
[/quote]

Are you an Oly lifter?
[/quote]

I train for power because that type of training is bringing me quality strength/size/leanness gains. I don’t perform the full oly lifts, but I do work on power clean/push press, power snatches, and squats on a daily basis. My training doesn’t look substantially different from oly training, but no- I wouldn’t classify myself as an “oly lifter.”

I just explained in my response to Koing why I said what I said in my original post. I’d never call someone out for form on the full oly lifts or anything like that, but I was trying to provide some help as far as managing neural fatigue while lifting explosively at a high frequency is concerned.

Sorry if I stepped on the feet of any experienced oly lifters. Not trying to say I’m an expert or anything.

22

[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
Back Squat up to max w/ back down sets

I am experiencing no general soreness and feel pumped and ready to go pretty much every day.[/quote]

Why are you maxing 5 days per week? Plan a progression and make sure you’re using sub-max loads on some days. Trying to go to max every day is just a recipe for frying your CNS and/or getting injured. You should incorporate a combination of heavy, moderate, and light days.

I definitely believe in squatting every day, but it needs to be done intelligently. It’s just not sustainable otherwise. I typically snatch, squat, and hit a pressing move at every session, but I rarely use max loads (a heavy day for me is usually about 90% of my max). Maxing every day is completely unsustainable, and I would not be surprised if your numbers continued to go down if you don’t change that.
[/quote]

Are you an Oly lifter?
[/quote]

I train for power because that type of training is bringing me quality strength/size/leanness gains. I don’t perform the full oly lifts, but I do work on power clean/push press, power snatches, and squats on a daily basis. My training doesn’t look substantially different from oly training, but no- I wouldn’t classify myself as an “oly lifter.”

I just explained in my response to Koing why I said what I said in my original post. I’d never call someone out for form on the full oly lifts or anything like that, but I was trying to provide some help as far as managing neural fatigue while lifting explosively at a high frequency is concerned.

Sorry if I stepped on the feet of any experienced oly lifters. Not trying to say I’m an expert or anything.[/quote]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, personally i don’t like koings method. I prefer maxing a fair bit on different lifts and assistance. Chinese method i suppose, it works well for me but then koing likes his method and it works for him. As long as we’re progressing who cares??

23

[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
Back Squat up to max w/ back down sets

I am experiencing no general soreness and feel pumped and ready to go pretty much every day.[/quote]

Why are you maxing 5 days per week? Plan a progression and make sure you’re using sub-max loads on some days. Trying to go to max every day is just a recipe for frying your CNS and/or getting injured. You should incorporate a combination of heavy, moderate, and light days.

I definitely believe in squatting every day, but it needs to be done intelligently. It’s just not sustainable otherwise. I typically snatch, squat, and hit a pressing move at every session, but I rarely use max loads (a heavy day for me is usually about 90% of my max). Maxing every day is completely unsustainable, and I would not be surprised if your numbers continued to go down if you don’t change that.
[/quote]

Are you an Oly lifter?
[/quote]

I train for power because that type of training is bringing me quality strength/size/leanness gains. I don’t perform the full oly lifts, but I do work on power clean/push press, power snatches, and squats on a daily basis. My training doesn’t look substantially different from oly training, but no- I wouldn’t classify myself as an “oly lifter.”

I just explained in my response to Koing why I said what I said in my original post. I’d never call someone out for form on the full oly lifts or anything like that, but I was trying to provide some help as far as managing neural fatigue while lifting explosively at a high frequency is concerned.

Sorry if I stepped on the feet of any experienced oly lifters. Not trying to say I’m an expert or anything.[/quote]

I was just asking because I think it’s a bit different for Oly than it is for powerlifting or bbing and I’ve never seen you post in the Oly forum before.

24

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
Back Squat up to max w/ back down sets

I am experiencing no general soreness and feel pumped and ready to go pretty much every day.[/quote]

Why are you maxing 5 days per week? Plan a progression and make sure you’re using sub-max loads on some days. Trying to go to max every day is just a recipe for frying your CNS and/or getting injured. You should incorporate a combination of heavy, moderate, and light days.

I definitely believe in squatting every day, but it needs to be done intelligently. It’s just not sustainable otherwise. I typically snatch, squat, and hit a pressing move at every session, but I rarely use max loads (a heavy day for me is usually about 90% of my max). Maxing every day is completely unsustainable, and I would not be surprised if your numbers continued to go down if you don’t change that.
[/quote]

Are you an Oly lifter?
[/quote]

I train for power because that type of training is bringing me quality strength/size/leanness gains. I don’t perform the full oly lifts, but I do work on power clean/push press, power snatches, and squats on a daily basis. My training doesn’t look substantially different from oly training, but no- I wouldn’t classify myself as an “oly lifter.”

I just explained in my response to Koing why I said what I said in my original post. I’d never call someone out for form on the full oly lifts or anything like that, but I was trying to provide some help as far as managing neural fatigue while lifting explosively at a high frequency is concerned.

Sorry if I stepped on the feet of any experienced oly lifters. Not trying to say I’m an expert or anything.[/quote]

I was just asking because I think it’s a bit different for Oly than it is for powerlifting or bbing and I’ve never seen you post in the Oly forum before.[/quote]

I only started posting outside of the Indigo Project within the past couple of weeks lol, that’s probably why.

I think BBers would look at my training and say WTF more than oly lifters would even though my ultimate goal is to get into natty BBing haha. I try to be helpful to posters in both forums when I can, seeing as my training is based on stuff I learned from Thibs and is essentially BBing through power training (if that makes any sense).

BTW, seen some of your oly lifting vids around in various places… nice work

25

My only question how long before the lifts start going back up with the squatting everyday?

26

To report in…my Clean and Jerk is stinking right now. I haven’t been focusing on going all out. I maybe go up to 225 or lower most days (20 lbs under max). I am really trying to get my squat back.

It started at 275 and then went to 320…then back down to 275 for a while. Now this week it has been 285. So I am going to see if it steadily keeps climbing. As far as energy, I am pumped for pretty much every workout. As was mentioned earlier by others, I too like to monitor how I feel each day as regards strength. I am pretty in tune with that kind of stuff and so some days I just except that it is a weaker day.

That being said, I still give it 100% I just don’t go as high in weight because I know I would fail. The interesting thing is, is that despite being tired, most days my squat doesn’t suffer a whole lot (now that it has done that big dip in weight). Mostly it is my OLY lifts that suffer. For example, I was not feeling super strong Friday, and my snatch only made it to 185 (max was 195). Monday felt strong, and hit a 205 to get a new PR on snatch. Squat was the same on both days. Then today, feeling great, and hit a 210 snatch (PR again) and even had a litter more in me. My squat? 285…just like the other 2 days.

I am not super experienced in the whole “squat every day thing yet” and am learning each day what the body is capable at different times.

sorry if all of this is babble, sometimes I just run at the mouth

27

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
To report in…my Clean and Jerk is stinking right now. I haven’t been focusing on going all out. I maybe go up to 225 or lower most days (20 lbs under max). I am really trying to get my squat back.

It started at 275 and then went to 320…then back down to 275 for a while. Now this week it has been 285. So I am going to see if it steadily keeps climbing. As far as energy, I am pumped for pretty much every workout. As was mentioned earlier by others, I too like to monitor how I feel each day as regards strength. I am pretty in tune with that kind of stuff and so some days I just except that it is a weaker day.

That being said, I still give it 100% I just don’t go as high in weight because I know I would fail. The interesting thing is, is that despite being tired, most days my squat doesn’t suffer a whole lot (now that it has done that big dip in weight). Mostly it is my OLY lifts that suffer. For example, I was not feeling super strong Friday, and my snatch only made it to 185 (max was 195). Monday felt strong, and hit a 205 to get a new PR on snatch. Squat was the same on both days. Then today, feeling great, and hit a 210 snatch (PR again) and even had a litter more in me. My squat? 285…just like the other 2 days.

I am not super experienced in the whole “squat every day thing yet” and am learning each day what the body is capable at different times.

sorry if all of this is babble, sometimes I just run at the mouth[/quote]

haha no that makes sense.

My brain feels fried lately and I have a definite decrease in leanness. But I am still powering through it. My forearms are killing and that’s really the only thing holding me back at this point in time. my squat also took a massive dip. FS is down to 305 for 2 and bs is 335 for 2

28

I like to squat often too, but every 4-6 weeks or so I notice I have trouble keeping my numbers up. One thing that you can try is alternating your everyday squat program that you do now with CT’s 5,4,3,2,1 protocol. That really put the activated feeling back in my workouts so I rotate it in when I start feeling drained now.

29

[quote]rehanb_bl wrote:
My only question how long before the lifts start going back up with the squatting everyday?[/quote]

Take your ‘B12’ and you’ll start seeing your squat go up in no time.

30

[quote]rehanb_bl wrote:

My brain feels fried lately and I have a definite decrease in leanness. [/quote]

^This sounds kinda ugly… be careful man. Full-on CNS burnout is not good (been there, done that lol). This is the reason why the “max every day and if the numbers go down it’s adaptation, just let it happen” idea scares me a bit.

You ever try neural charge stuff? That might help with the neural fatigue. Definitely won’t hurt- doesn’t take long and you can keep rolling with the workout you have now. Let me know if you want me to elaborate.

31

[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:

[quote]Koing wrote:
My Reasons:
I feel that having a rough plan is good but it’s better to see what you can do for that given day on how the warm ups go.

Why limit yourself when your feeling uber strong? Why struggle/ fail % when your too tired because of outside factors? Just go as heavy as you can for the day. I feel the % restrain the lifter too much even if they are guidelines. It basically just gives the lifter a minimum to do and allows for a relatively easier squat session on that given day.

It is a very simple concept. It’s up to the person to believe and work hard to carry it out. Just look at Ed Ache, he’s had one of the biggest gains on this forum in 2010-2011. 2011-2012 will be good for him.

Make no mistake it is NOT EASY TO DO. 95% is a really good session. 90-94% is an okay, anything below 90% is a poor session. Also some people are not cut out to going heavy everyday (known plenty of lifters that get injured much more often then others and I’m sure you all have also) and it’s up to the coach to see this and to adjust accordingly.

Koing[/quote]

I agree with this, to an extent. I think you’re right on that if someone has a 90-95% effort in them on a given day, it’s a waste to not lift heavy. At the same time, I am absolutely against failing lifts. Whether you call a <90% of max day “bad” or not, I don’t think that changes the fact that some days the body just isn’t ready for a heavy lift like that.

I’ve tried the “keep going up until you fail” approach before, and I’ve more recently switched to an approach where you cut off before failure. The results are night in day as far as sustainability of gains goes, at least in my experience.

I think it’s awesome to train as heavy as your body can manage, but I really think it’s important to learn how to anticipate how heavy you should go for a given day through lighter-weight work rather than simply throwing weight on the bar until you fail lifts.

This is just my experience obviously, as you noted, different lifters perform differently. OP noted that his lifts were on a regular decline rather than in a “some good days, some bad days” pattern, and that just struck me as a bad trend that was indicating an accumulation of neural fatigue that would lead to a decline in performance before an improvement. Those are my thoughts- I’m obviously not that experienced and OP is free to take them or leave them.[/quote]

Understood. It’s cool to discuss mate. Not stepping on anyones toes.

[quote]Swolegasm wrote:
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, personally i don’t like koings method. I prefer maxing a fair bit on different lifts and assistance. Chinese method i suppose, it works well for me but then koing likes his method and it works for him. As long as we’re progressing who cares??[/quote]

No crazyfish sandwhich pic for you! j/k

It’s not for everyone but imo it’s the best way to make the biggest gains imo. If training stalls for 4-6 weeks, then it’s up to the coach (it’s an art form) to pick the next course of action.

[quote]rehanb_bl wrote:
My only question how long before the lifts start going back up with the squatting everyday?[/quote]

Depends on how many times a week you are training, how much experience do you have, how good your technique is and how your squats are. Way too many variables imo.

I’d say give it at least 4-6 weeks. When you squat everyday are you squating 12-14x a week? Or only 8-10?

Koing

32

I’ve been maxing my front squat 10-12x a week for nearly 6 months now. No CNS burnout here. I’ve felt ropey and depressed some weeks but I’ve added a bunch to my lifts because of it. My knees are sore at the moment but thats not really a shock. I no longer buy into ‘CNS burnout’, its just part of the adaptation.

33

[quote]Koing wrote:

No crazyfish sandwhich pic for you![/quote]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

lol

[quote]Ed Ache wrote:
I no longer buy into ‘CNS burnout’, its just part of the adaptation.[/quote]

Haha you were probably lucky enough to toe the line but never hit full-on burnout. The human body is an amazing thing though- if you push the limits with stuff like this, your body can build up a crazy amount of neural efficiency on these lifts and recover very quickly.

I’m going to push the envelope a little more on front squatting starting next week. It’s the beginning of a new semester for me so the mental stress of classes will be virtually nonexistent lol.

34

[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:

[quote]

[quote]Ed Ache wrote:
I no longer buy into ‘CNS burnout’, its just part of the adaptation.[/quote]

Haha you were probably lucky enough to toe the line but never hit full-on burnout. The human body is an amazing thing though- if you push the limits with stuff like this, your body can build up a crazy amount of neural efficiency on these lifts and recover very quickly.

I’m going to push the envelope a little more on front squatting starting next week. It’s the beginning of a new semester for me so the mental stress of classes will be virtually nonexistent lol. [/quote]

See I don’t really understan the ‘burnout’, or the physiology behind it. The best explination I’ve found has been on the broz site here:

http://www.averagebroz.com/ABG/Q_%26_A/Entries/2010/5/28_Central_nervous_system.html

35

[quote]Ed Ache wrote:

[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:

[quote]

[quote]Ed Ache wrote:
I no longer buy into ‘CNS burnout’, its just part of the adaptation.[/quote]

Haha you were probably lucky enough to toe the line but never hit full-on burnout. The human body is an amazing thing though- if you push the limits with stuff like this, your body can build up a crazy amount of neural efficiency on these lifts and recover very quickly.

I’m going to push the envelope a little more on front squatting starting next week. It’s the beginning of a new semester for me so the mental stress of classes will be virtually nonexistent lol. [/quote]

See I don’t really understan the ‘burnout’, or the physiology behind it. The best explination I’ve found has been on the broz site here:

http://www.averagebroz.com/ABG/Q_%26_A/Entries/2010/5/28_Central_nervous_system.html[/quote]

Interesting read, thanks for posting that. I have a lot of respect for Broz and the athletes he trains… I’ve spent way more time than I’d like to admit on his youtube channel haha.

If we were working out in a vacuum, and the referenced “dark times” when the body is “remodeling” only correlated to a need to push through hard workouts while in a bit of a mental fog, I’d say that sure- you can’t really “burn out” the CNS.

But when lifting isn’t your job and you have to perform at a high level academically or perform a job on a daily basis that requires a lot of thinking, the “dark times” can be a huge problem. You’re piling the accumulated neural fatigue from workouts on top of a lifestyle where you’re trying to maintain a high mental output, and that’s when it can become a problem. You can afford a performance reduction in the gym and work below 90% of your max on some days while your body is adapting, but when you view neural fatigue cumulatively and account for the stress that life throws on the CNS, it can get tricky.

I do think that it can all add up and lead to a point where the body is increasingly susceptible to illness, running at a rest deficit for too long, etc, and that THIS will lead to a forced layoff of some sort- that’s what I consider “CNS burnout.” We are amazingly adaptive, but not invincible. If you can force the neural adaptation that way without getting too run down, then I think it’s an awesome method. But for those of us who are at risk for getting run down due to life outside of the gym (and can’t really afford to do so), I think a more measured approach to gaining neural efficiency is required.

I’m speaking from a layman’s standpoint as far as biology is concerned. But I’m also speaking from a lot of experience as someone who works squats/power variations of oly lifts/pressing 5-7 times week and is coming off a semester of putting in 45-60+ hour weeks between work and classes while keeping up a 3.7 and change/4.0 GPA.

36

I’ve squatted to max everyday, plus some two a days for months on end with no issues and I’m a 39 year old woman, so if I can do it surely a young guy with lots of testosterone can do it and recover. It’s not for everyone and there is more than one way to make gains but I don’t think there is anything wrong with it either.

I’m working on getting back to that and I’m doing a quick session of FS in the morning and one at night but not quite maxing out yet because my calves are complaining because they’re not used to it anymore.

[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:
BTW, seen some of your oly lifting vids around in various places… nice work[/quote]

Why thank you :slight_smile:

37

[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:

[quote]rehanb_bl wrote:

My brain feels fried lately and I have a definite decrease in leanness. [/quote]

^This sounds kinda ugly… be careful man. Full-on CNS burnout is not good (been there, done that lol). This is the reason why the “max every day and if the numbers go down it’s adaptation, just let it happen” idea scares me a bit.

You ever try neural charge stuff? That might help with the neural fatigue. Definitely won’t hurt- doesn’t take long and you can keep rolling with the workout you have now. Let me know if you want me to elaborate.[/quote]

Do you train alone or with others?

I always train with club members or guys I coach. I NEVER train alone. It would be impossible for me train heavy without my club members or having people about!

I just feel much more up for it.

I definitely believe people over play the CNS fatigue thing. People can push themselves much much harder, granted it’s not the same on your own as oppose to a group of lifters.

Sat, FS start and at the end, PS and pulls inbetween
Sun: FS at the start and at the end, loads of pulls inbetween
Mon: Hit heaviest FS the 3 heaviest FS in the past 3 weeks, hit PB’s on the PJ

Clocked in 7hrs before I hit PB’s on the Monday. Body a bit battered but once you start to warm up and get moving the body starts to feel good.

Trained 6x since the 22nd till the start of the year. 5 sessions this year already. Training frequency is key imo.

I think aiming for a minimum of 90% on a 1RM FS is not too bad after you adjust to lifting heavy all the time. I thought it would be impossible…now I aim to never miss 90%…it’s a poor session to only hit 90% in the FS. I’m aiming for at least 170, just below 95% for me. I’ll see what I get tonight LOL

Koing

38

[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:

[quote]rehanb_bl wrote:

My brain feels fried lately and I have a definite decrease in leanness. [/quote]

^This sounds kinda ugly… be careful man. Full-on CNS burnout is not good (been there, done that lol). This is the reason why the “max every day and if the numbers go down it’s adaptation, just let it happen” idea scares me a bit.

You ever try neural charge stuff? That might help with the neural fatigue. Definitely won’t hurt- doesn’t take long and you can keep rolling with the workout you have now. Let me know if you want me to elaborate.[/quote]

I know some about it but feel free to throw some info my way

Adding B12?
I am eating a ton of beef (grass fed) should I still add b12? (I work at a sups store so I can get it cheap and will try it anyway).

I am also thinking about adding alpha GPC amongst other things.

My legs feel good right now but my problem is with the forearm tendinitis.

39

[quote]debraD wrote:
I’ve squatted to max everyday, plus some two a days for months on end with no issues and I’m a 39 year old woman, so if I can do it surely a young guy with lots of testosterone can do it and recover. It’s not for everyone and there is more than one way to make gains but I don’t think there is anything wrong with it either.

I’m working on getting back to that and I’m doing a quick session of FS in the morning and one at night but not quite maxing out yet because my calves are complaining because they’re not used to it anymore.

[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:
BTW, seen some of your oly lifting vids around in various places… nice work[/quote]

Why thank you :slight_smile:

[/quote]

Calves take such a pounding when I’m training with uncle…squating 3-4x a day…lifting twice a day…7hrs a day…7days a week…

Uncle says: You adapt or you die, and no ones ever died :slight_smile:

It is definitely tough when your not a full time athlete able to sleep 9 solid hrs, rest inbetween sessiond and nap after lunch. It’s a bast working 50hr weeks and commuting 13hrs. I do get to sleep 18-20minutes on the train on the way home, which is a godsend for me! I sleep so easily at night it’s crazy. My sleep is sooooooo deep. I’m just physically smashed to bits and sleep so easily.

On my non training days, Tue and Thursday, I just cook and CHILL OUT. The body is smashed, brain is not functioning, I just watch bad tv LOL. I never want to do anything cerebral on my off days.

Koing

40

[quote]Koing wrote:

[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:

[quote]rehanb_bl wrote:

My brain feels fried lately and I have a definite decrease in leanness. [/quote]

^This sounds kinda ugly… be careful man. Full-on CNS burnout is not good (been there, done that lol). This is the reason why the “max every day and if the numbers go down it’s adaptation, just let it happen” idea scares me a bit.

You ever try neural charge stuff? That might help with the neural fatigue. Definitely won’t hurt- doesn’t take long and you can keep rolling with the workout you have now. Let me know if you want me to elaborate.[/quote]

Do you train alone or with others?

I always train with club members or guys I coach. I NEVER train alone. It would be impossible for me train heavy without my club members or having people about!

I just feel much more up for it.

I definitely believe people over play the CNS fatigue thing. People can push themselves much much harder, granted it’s not the same on your own as oppose to a group of lifters.

Sat, FS start and at the end, PS and pulls inbetween
Sun: FS at the start and at the end, loads of pulls inbetween
Mon: Hit heaviest FS the 3 heaviest FS in the past 3 weeks, hit PB’s on the PJ

Clocked in 7hrs before I hit PB’s on the Monday. Body a bit battered but once you start to warm up and get moving the body starts to feel good.

Trained 6x since the 22nd till the start of the year. 5 sessions this year already. Training frequency is key imo.

I think aiming for a minimum of 90% on a 1RM FS is not too bad after you adjust to lifting heavy all the time. I thought it would be impossible…now I aim to never miss 90%…it’s a poor session to only hit 90% in the FS. I’m aiming for at least 170, just below 95% for me. I’ll see what I get tonight LOL

Koing[/quote]

Lol not sure if that was addressing me or rehanb_bl, but I personally train alone most of the time. As I mentioned in my last post, I’m still in college, so I’m working out at the University gym. I’m sure you can guess the kind of lifters that I’m surrounded by most of the time :P.

I typically draw my motivation from within. There are a handful of guys in my gym who take the lifting seriously, and I ALWAYS go heavy and have a good workout when they’re around. It’s nice to be able to talk shop and also to just be in a hard work environment where those around you are killing it and not spinning their wheels.

I should mention that my training has me performing multiple sets at the same weight for the exercises I work on at a high frequency (usually 3-5) rather than continuously ramping and aiming for one top set at ~90+%. It would be a bit more taxing for me to be trying to hit, say, 5 singles/doubles with a max weight each day I train. When I do go heavy (typically 1-2x per week), I certainly go over 90% for my top set unless it’s an off day for some reason. Other days I’ll just hit 5 sets of triples (or maybe up to 6 reps per set if I’m mixing it up and doing lighter form work) at a lower weight.

You’ve inspired me though. Starting next week I’m going to try working up to a single of about 90% of my max on FS each day. Hope your training session tonight goes well!