Also dont know if youve ever tried it, but despite what most people say about boards for raw lifters board presses have helped my bench… I dont do them all the time but typically if i get my 2 board to go up my bench goes up
[quote]PlainPat wrote:
Told ya man, I understand the concept of why frequency would work for olympic lifts and maybe for just bb purposes but \in a program like that were its mostly a lot of the powerlifts (bench, dead variation, squat variation) it just never seems to go as well for people in my opinion than a split or upper/lower or push pull legs does.[/quote]
I’m trying to understand this myself. With my bench variation, I’ve made just as much progress training it three times in two weeks as I was making training six times in two weeks. And with less volume too. It was progressing either way, but it takes less out of me doing it like this.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]PlainPat wrote:
Told ya man, I understand the concept of why frequency would work for olympic lifts and maybe for just bb purposes but \in a program like that were its mostly a lot of the powerlifts (bench, dead variation, squat variation) it just never seems to go as well for people in my opinion than a split or upper/lower or push pull legs does.[/quote]
I’m trying to understand this myself. With my bench variation, I’ve made just as much progress training it three times in two weeks as I was making training six times in two weeks. And with less volume too. It was progressing either way, but it takes less out of me doing it like this.[/quote]
I’m making more progress training 3x a week, squat/pulls once a week with a lower accessory day the next day (basically might as well be one day so technically 2 days total per week practically) and just benching on wednesdays with accessories after…
More is not better. Paul carter is really smart when he talks about this stuff. Your body only has so much limited resources to tap into. Everything you do in life taps into these resources just like training does. So, you have to manipulate the factors of training like a sliding scale (frequency, volume, and intensity or %). If youre gonna work hard with rep maxes, and a ton of volume its gonna go a lot better for you if frequency is low as fuck. If youre gonna work squats 3x a week or something with a ton of frequency, either your intensity has to go low or your volume because if all 3 are high youre gonna have a shitty fucking time.
Literally, the most important thing in getting stronger I think is recovery. I mean I’m not an expert, I don’t know everything and don’t claim to, it’s not like I’m the strongest guy in the world or some shit but recovery is deffinetely up there. Giving yourself more time inbetween is the time in which you get stronger. Just by pushing frequency through the roof doesn’t mean you’re gonna be crazy good at it.
Because in most sports and skills in general, the more you practice the better you are. But in strength training its not really all the case. Yeah you can build volume over time, but being able to fully recover session to session is important as hell.
EDIT: Oh, and I think not getting hurt is one of the most important things to. And the more times you do something the odds of something happening bad go up so just from probability alone frequency probably gets more people hurt. Don’t know the science behind frequency really because I know some people feel better training more often but I’d imagine just doing the math the odds of getting hurt squatting 5x a week is much more than once every other week.
Good discussion going on here. I think I’m definitely going to include 2 off days a week now (haven’t had scheduled off days in months), and do something a bit more reasonable, especially during this mini-cut.
Plain Pat: I could make some boards, but train alone so idk how I’d do that. I was considering something like Spoto Presses though.
Lost like half a pound this week, so will be going 325/210/90 on training days, and 200/210/110 on off days. Figured that’ll get things rolling again.
Yesteraday’s training was:
Flat BB:
205x8
185x10
155x13
Incline BB:
145x5
115x14+7+4= 25
Chins ~SS~ Pull-Aparts: My chin bar has literally no knurling and it’s honestly not a great ‘back’ movement for me. May change to somethign else
BWx4x8-12
Greenx4x20
Leaning Laterals: Really want to bring up the side delt area
25’sx2x10
15’sx2x15
EZ Incline Tricep Extensions:
20x3x10-15
BB Curls:
100 total reps RP’d
I think I’m my split will basically be Moderate Upper, Light Lower ,Light Upper, Off, Heavy Upper, Heavy Lower, Off. I CAN Squat 3x a week and make progress, but I feel it takes up a lot of the recovery that could go to my lagging upper body. And I’ve done something like this before and gotten good results. I’ve realized I’ve made a lot of intelligent programming choices in the past, but convince myself otherwise.
Boards were just a suggestion, works for me, doesnt work for everyone. Didnt know if youve tried them before couldn’t remember really so just threw it out there with the bench discussion.
Just tuck them under your shirt and tie a band around them.
Spotos are good too though, same reasoning behind why except takes a lot more control theyre a good movement for sure thinke everyone can benefit from those.
[quote]PlainPat wrote:
…
More is not better. Paul carter is really smart when he talks about this stuff. Your body only has so much limited resources to tap into. Everything you do in life taps into these resources just like training does. So, you have to manipulate the factors of training like a sliding scale (frequency, volume, and intensity or %). If youre gonna work hard with rep maxes, and a ton of volume its gonna go a lot better for you if frequency is low as fuck. If youre gonna work squats 3x a week or something with a ton of frequency, either your intensity has to go low or your volume because if all 3 are high youre gonna have a shitty fucking time.
…
[/quote]
In the past 6 weeks I have been moving over to a Paul Carter Base Building template. I personally give a x2 to these comments. My progress seems to be the same or better with lighter weights and less volume. And in addition, I have not had to hit the rumble-roller twice a day as I used to. Less pain, feel fresher, etc. It is still a bit of a mental recalibration to realize that I am making gains but that they are related to how ‘easy’ a certain weight becomes, or how many more reps that I can hit on an AMRAP set.
Today’s training:
Flat BB: I feel kind of unstable sometimes up on my toes, but then I never feel ‘powerful’ with feet flat because I can’t get my knees lower than my hips. But whatever
225x4
205x6
185x8
Incline BB: I just paused these about an inch or 2 off the chest, just because my shoulders are wonky and don’t every want to get sloppy on incline
165x3
135x10+4+3= 17
Meadows Rows ~SS~ Rear Delt Flies:
35+red minix4x15
25’sx4x15
Lateral Raises: Last 2 sets were just with plates, and these feel better than DB’s, no idea why
25’sx2x8
10’sx2x15
Incline Curls ~SS~ Band Pushdowns: The strictest form in all the land
15’sx4x12
Orange minisx4xAMRAP
Pretty good workout. Rep speed on 4th rep of 225 slowed, so I acted like an adult and racked it instead of going for 5 or 6, which I had but knew were going to be uglier. Definitely need to work on setting my feet better, left side gets a bit out of groove, I feel a bit wobbly. not sure if it’s a set-up thing, or I have maybe like an uneven scapula thing going on
225x4 YEEEEEEE…I’m pumped for you
[quote]chobbs wrote:
225x4 YEEEEEEE…I’m pumped for you[/quote]
Thanks bro! Definitely had a bit more any me. Just trying to catch up to you!
Heavy Lower
Just a note, but other than my top ‘heavy’ set of Squats, I’ve been going beltless on everything else.
Squats: Pretty decent, maybe a PR today but not sure
325x5
290x3x1 (paused)
260x5 (paused)
Deficit Snatch Grip DL’s: My forearms and grip are starting to hurt all the time, will start alternating straps in now and again
215x5
245x3
275x3x1
SLDL’s: Not going over 10 with these, just to make sure I don’t get into tard-form territory
245x10
225x10
Bulgarian Split Squats:
135x3x8
Shrugs ~SS~ Band Pull-Aparts: I just train traps on any day before a rest day, because they are usually sore for awhile
135x40, 185x25, 235x20
Redx3xAMRAP
I then did some cardio, because I’m fat. Basically 20 mins of ‘fartlek’ training, just random intervals, alternating between easy, medium, and hard intensities. I like that kind of cardio, because it seems to kind of work a bit of everything, and I have a bro-theory that I want to have my cardio different in some shape of form always, so my body is more ‘inefficient’ at it, so it’ll have to work harder = more calories burned. I know that’s not science but IDGAF. So I never like to stick with just steady state jogging or just short sprints. I want it all.
Just to give ya’ll an idea of how I’m eating, here’s a ‘off day’, of roughly 200/200/120 Macros
Meal 1: Just Coffee + VCO and some Whipping Cream
Meal 2: 6 oz of Steak, 4 Eggs
Meal 3: Pro Shake
Meal 4: 5 oz Chicken, 5 oz Steak, 1.5 cups of Pasta Noodles, 2 servings of green veggies
Meal 5: Pro Shake, 6 homemade sugar cookies, banana, 2 tbsp of PB
So yeah, that’s my day. Nothing crazy. I could easily just go lower calories on off days, but I’m trying not to rush it. Also, I kind of fast a bit, so that first ‘meal’ wasn’t until about 1pm, and I was done by 11. Just ind of naturally how I eat.
Jump on the IIFYM train
[quote]chobbs wrote:
Jump on the IIFYM train [/quote]
I am on the IIFYM train dude, have been for awhile. But I also have a huge appetite so I have to make sure to feel full.
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
Just to give ya’ll an idea of how I’m eating, here’s a ‘off day’, of roughly 200/200/120 Macros
Meal 1: Just Coffee + VCO and some Whipping Cream
Meal 2: 6 oz of Steak, 4 Eggs
Meal 3: Pro Shake
Meal 4: 5 oz Chicken, 5 oz Steak, 1.5 cups of Pasta Noodles, 2 servings of green veggies
Meal 5: Pro Shake, 6 homemade sugar cookies, banana, 2 tbsp of PB
So yeah, that’s my day. Nothing crazy. I could easily just go lower calories on off days, but I’m trying not to rush it. Also, I kind of fast a bit, so that first ‘meal’ wasn’t until about 1pm, and I was done by 11. Just ind of naturally how I eat. [/quote]
How is this diet conducive to building health and muscle?
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
Just to give ya’ll an idea of how I’m eating, here’s a ‘off day’, of roughly 200/200/120 Macros
Meal 1: Just Coffee + VCO and some Whipping Cream
Meal 2: 6 oz of Steak, 4 Eggs
Meal 3: Pro Shake
Meal 4: 5 oz Chicken, 5 oz Steak, 1.5 cups of Pasta Noodles, 2 servings of green veggies
Meal 5: Pro Shake, 6 homemade sugar cookies, banana, 2 tbsp of PB
So yeah, that’s my day. Nothing crazy. I could easily just go lower calories on off days, but I’m trying not to rush it. Also, I kind of fast a bit, so that first ‘meal’ wasn’t until about 1pm, and I was done by 11. Just ind of naturally how I eat. [/quote]
How is this diet conducive to building health and muscle?[/quote]
What do you mean man? It’s pretty ‘clean’ minus a few cookies. Everything is pretty much whole foods, I only get about 50g of protein from shakes, I get some greens in.
Upper Moderate
Spoto Press: Used same percentages I would have used for Bench, just paused each rep about an inch or two above the chest. Definitely required me staying realllly tight
220x3
195x6
175x9
Incline BB:
165x3
120x15+6+4
Kneeling Pulldowns ~SS~ Rear Delt Swings:
3x15
25’sx3x25-35
Chins ~SS~ Seated Laterals: Chins were hard with fatigued lats, but definitely felt it more
BWx4x6
25’sx4x8-10
EZ Incline Extensions ~SS~ Band Curls:
50x4x10
Greenx4xAMRAP
Good workout. I think the Spoto presses will help with stability a bit. Definitely requires control of the weight.
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
Just to give ya’ll an idea of how I’m eating, here’s a ‘off day’, of roughly 200/200/120 Macros
Meal 1: Just Coffee + VCO and some Whipping Cream
Meal 2: 6 oz of Steak, 4 Eggs
Meal 3: Pro Shake
Meal 4: 5 oz Chicken, 5 oz Steak, 1.5 cups of Pasta Noodles, 2 servings of green veggies
Meal 5: Pro Shake, 6 homemade sugar cookies, banana, 2 tbsp of PB
So yeah, that’s my day. Nothing crazy. I could easily just go lower calories on off days, but I’m trying not to rush it. Also, I kind of fast a bit, so that first ‘meal’ wasn’t until about 1pm, and I was done by 11. Just ind of naturally how I eat. [/quote]
How is this diet conducive to building health and muscle?[/quote]
What do you mean man? It’s pretty ‘clean’ minus a few cookies. Everything is pretty much whole foods, I only get about 50g of protein from shakes, I get some greens in. [/quote]
Idk how you guys survive eating like this i eat 2.5lbs of chicken, at least 3-4 servings of whole carbs ie pasta or oats, usually a quart of milk, 4-5 tlbs pb, 3 scoops whey, and some eggs sometimes a day and I feel like a fucking ravenous animal some days. Id go nuts eating like this
EDIT: On the other hand if i dont eat like how I do, like if i ate carbs before bed like you do or practically any amount of sugar a day my physique will go to literal dog shit in 2-3 weeks. I pile on fat at an obscene rate
[quote]PlainPat wrote:
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
Just to give ya’ll an idea of how I’m eating, here’s a ‘off day’, of roughly 200/200/120 Macros
Meal 1: Just Coffee + VCO and some Whipping Cream
Meal 2: 6 oz of Steak, 4 Eggs
Meal 3: Pro Shake
Meal 4: 5 oz Chicken, 5 oz Steak, 1.5 cups of Pasta Noodles, 2 servings of green veggies
Meal 5: Pro Shake, 6 homemade sugar cookies, banana, 2 tbsp of PB
So yeah, that’s my day. Nothing crazy. I could easily just go lower calories on off days, but I’m trying not to rush it. Also, I kind of fast a bit, so that first ‘meal’ wasn’t until about 1pm, and I was done by 11. Just ind of naturally how I eat. [/quote]
How is this diet conducive to building health and muscle?[/quote]
What do you mean man? It’s pretty ‘clean’ minus a few cookies. Everything is pretty much whole foods, I only get about 50g of protein from shakes, I get some greens in. [/quote]
Idk how you guys survive eating like this i eat 2.5lbs of chicken, at least 3-4 servings of whole carbs ie pasta or oats, usually a quart of milk, 4-5 tlbs pb, 3 scoops whey, and some eggs sometimes a day and I feel like a fucking ravenous animal some days. Id go nuts eating like this
EDIT: On the other hand if i dont eat like how I do, like if i ate carbs before bed like you do or practically any amount of sugar a day my physique will go to literal dog shit in 2-3 weeks. I pile on fat at an obscene rate [/quote]
Well yeah I’m obviously hungry eating only this, but I’m doing a small ‘cut’, so I can’t just eat what I want. But I’m usually not ‘hungry’ until I eat, so I naturally fast a bit.
I actually do pretty well with carbs. Initially, the last meal of the night was going to be beef and pasta, my my little sister baked some cookies for here friends and saved me some, so I didn’t want to be a dick. lol
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
Just to give ya’ll an idea of how I’m eating, here’s a ‘off day’, of roughly 200/200/120 Macros
Meal 1: Just Coffee + VCO and some Whipping Cream
Meal 2: 6 oz of Steak, 4 Eggs
Meal 3: Pro Shake
Meal 4: 5 oz Chicken, 5 oz Steak, 1.5 cups of Pasta Noodles, 2 servings of green veggies
Meal 5: Pro Shake, 6 homemade sugar cookies, banana, 2 tbsp of PB
So yeah, that’s my day. Nothing crazy. I could easily just go lower calories on off days, but I’m trying not to rush it. Also, I kind of fast a bit, so that first ‘meal’ wasn’t until about 1pm, and I was done by 11. Just ind of naturally how I eat. [/quote]
How is this diet conducive to building health and muscle?[/quote]
What do you mean man? It’s pretty ‘clean’ minus a few cookies. Everything is pretty much whole foods, I only get about 50g of protein from shakes, I get some greens in. [/quote]
Spidey, c’mon bud. You’re drinking fad coffee, drinking 2 shakes and eating one balanced meal. How is that pretty much whole foods? Instead of jumping on the newest fad diet nonsense, why not just eat the way really big and strong people have been eating for half a century? 3-4 solid, balanced nutritious high protein meals a day along with solid, consistent training has gotten literally hundreds of thousands of nnatural trainers strong. Listening to some juice monkey or some clown trying to make a buck is gonna leave you spinning your wheels. Every new generation has a few new bright ideas, and some may work, but the best results are still found in the old school. Success leaves tracks homey.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
Just to give ya’ll an idea of how I’m eating, here’s a ‘off day’, of roughly 200/200/120 Macros
Meal 1: Just Coffee + VCO and some Whipping Cream
Meal 2: 6 oz of Steak, 4 Eggs
Meal 3: Pro Shake
Meal 4: 5 oz Chicken, 5 oz Steak, 1.5 cups of Pasta Noodles, 2 servings of green veggies
Meal 5: Pro Shake, 6 homemade sugar cookies, banana, 2 tbsp of PB
So yeah, that’s my day. Nothing crazy. I could easily just go lower calories on off days, but I’m trying not to rush it. Also, I kind of fast a bit, so that first ‘meal’ wasn’t until about 1pm, and I was done by 11. Just ind of naturally how I eat. [/quote]
How is this diet conducive to building health and muscle?[/quote]
What do you mean man? It’s pretty ‘clean’ minus a few cookies. Everything is pretty much whole foods, I only get about 50g of protein from shakes, I get some greens in. [/quote]
Spidey, c’mon bud. You’re drinking fad coffee, drinking 2 shakes and eating one balanced meal. How is that pretty much whole foods? Instead of jumping on the newest fad diet nonsense, why not just eat the way really big and strong people have been eating for half a century? 3-4 solid, balanced nutritious high protein meals a day along with solid, consistent training has gotten literally hundreds of thousands of nnatural trainers strong. Listening to some juice monkey or some clown trying to make a buck is gonna leave you spinning your wheels. Every new generation has a few new bright ideas, and some may work, but the best results are still found in the old school. Success leaves tracks homey.[/quote]
Whoah bro, I’m not drinking ‘fad’ coffee. I just like VCO in my coffee dude, and don’t think there is any ‘magic’ to it or anything, and I mean steak and eggs is pretty hearty, high protein meal. Like I said about, I would have had another thing of steak and pasta, but the whole cookies thing happened.
I GENUINELY have taken your advice dude. I eat some eggs + pork or steak most mornings with my coffee, and usually have 2 meals of a meat, starch, and a veggie every day as well. Like I said, it was lower calorie, so I fast and kind of cram my calories in so I’m not hungry all day.