SPF Elite Total?

[quote]grettiron wrote:
I can’t shut up and let a bad analogy get in the way of one of the most severe problems with IPF (as you can see, my problem with them is political and this is nothing against IPF lifters. Although support for IPF is support for this kind of behavior.):

[quote]rawunitymeet wrote:
In 2001, WPC Worlds was held in Cape Town, South Africa, a five-day event with hundreds of lifters. The WPC affiliate in South Africa had approximately 800 members across the country’s nine provinces. The week before the meet, WPC-South Africa officials were summoned to a meeting with South Africa’s Minister of Sport, Ngconde Balfour. A participant in that meeting recalls:

We had no idea as to what was to be discussed, as we were not given the courtesy of an agenda. When we arrived at the Department of Sport’s conference room, there were representatives from Home Affairs, Internal Affairs, Police, Drug Squad, and a few others from the powers that be that I did not know. In the center of this gathering was Alan Ferguson, the IPF representative for South Africa.

Balfour stated that Ferguson had informed him about the WPC championships and gave the following ultimatum:

The minister threatened to surround the hotel with the army and stop the event if we did not agree to test. We had no option but to agree. We had to supply at our cost a room at the hotel for the drug testing crew.

Despite the WPC subsidizing the government to impose drug testing, in 2002 the government made the IPF affiliate the only authorized powerlifting organization in South Africa, shutting down the WPC affiliate and barring entry of other federations. (So much for the South African Bill of Rights’ affirmation that “Everyone has the right to freedom of association.”) Along these lines, the IPF affiliate’s constitution states under its intents and purposes:

To proclaim as unauthorised all Powerlifting Meetings and Competitions throughout South Africa, which are not held under the Rules and Regulations of the FEDERATION, whether such contemplated, controlled or held by any club or association.
(http://www.powerliftingsa.co.za/sites/default/files/constitution_0.pdf)

Alan Ferguson, now a member of the IPF’s Executive Committee, claims that the government contacted him about the WPC championships and gave him the power to allow or forbid the competition. Ferguson states that he decided to allow the competition on the condition of drug testing: “The competition duly took place and the South African Drug Testing officials arrived to do the testing and although I was not present I was informed that they were chased out of the building.”

Participants at the meet recall events differently. “Alan Ferguson was indeed there,” states Nance Avigliano, who competed on the American team. Another member of the American team remarks concerning who was chased out when the drug testers arrived:

It was the lifters who ran out of the building in an attempt to avoid the testing group since the WPC is not a tested organization. When word was received that the Testing Officials were on site, there wasan emergency exit in the back of the warm-up room that had an exit to the outside. That was the route the lifters used to evacuate the facility. It looked like a circus with the lifters running around the Holiday Inn and the testing officials chasing after them. Moreover, Ferguson describes the aftermath of the competition in disingenuous terms: “After this competition the SAPA [the WPC affiliate] closed down and finally complete unity took place which is the current situation in the country.” The SAPA did not close down; the government closed it down.

As for “unity,” this suggests choice and persuasion, such as lifters from several federations choosing to compete at the Raw Unity Meet after feeling persuaded of the competition’s quality. By contrast, powerlifting in South Africa is in a state of IPF monopoly where persuasion and choice do not exist. [/quote][/quote]

So this is mostly seems like a first hand account of the “victim,” ie the WPC. That almost initially discredits this report, but I digress.

This report openly says that the IPF member, Ferguson, was approached by the South African government to begin with. Meaning the South African government had a potential problem with the WPC operating (in some way, shape, or form). When approached, is it at all surprising that a company (let’s be real here, everyone wants to make money) would choose to not have its competitor operate? Clearly they would choose to have them shut down. However, that is not even what the IPF suggested. The IPF suggested that they continue, as long as testing as done. An action that provides validity to the sport (this assumes that testing lends legitimacy to a sport, which the general public would certainly agree with).

Secondly, let’s assume that the government didn’t first approach the IPF for their opinion. Let’s assume that is false and that the IPF approached the government. If the ideals of the government were not in line with the ideals of the IPF, do you really think a small powerlifting organization (small compared to organizations with real power) would be able to sway a government into military action? Excuse me? This sounds completely ridiculous.

Or who knows, maybe the IPF bullied the government of one of the largest countries in the world into using military power to suppress a rival. Maybe that actually did happen. Either way, this thread is stupid.

[quote]grettiron wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]grettiron wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
My own standard is binary

A. Top 5 IPF World Classics Raw (or singleply IPF) in your weight class
B. Shit otherwise

Done.[/quote]

Except that IPF is shit, treats the lifters like subjects, and is trying desperately to crush all competition (other feds). It is a top-down organization that tells the lifters what they want, rather than the other way around.

So, anything but IPF. rawunitymeet.com/Rule-14.9.html[/quote]

(1) I meant the totals needed to be there - take the average or whatever. Don’t have to actually be there competing. No other fed or event has the same depth of quality lifters so far - maybe RAW unity will have that at some point in the future - but then again they will have the problem of not testing for PEDs at all.

(2) Only problem with the IPF benchmark is for lifters like you who prefer to squat with wraps.[/quote]

  1. Not a problem for PEDs. RPS has (and I think USPA will have) an option to enter a tested division. That way, if you think you have a shot at some records, you can lift tested. If not, you just lift and not worry about it.

  2. Yes, there’s that too. Why don’t they have a wraps division, despite their popularity? Way too authoritarian. These are the people who wanted to enforce a minimum bench ROM rule. [/quote]

The Federation administered drug testing appears to eliminate PED use (and very well might); however, what organization does the testing in the RPS? I’ll take a wild guess and say its something not WADA because I doubt lifters are biting the bullet on a 2 grand drug test for the sake of a “record”. This has already been brought up that people point and laugh at the stringency of WADA’s drug testing but the fact is other organizations charge per compound tested for. This eliminates a huge portion of the cost but obviously means that there is hundreds of “illegal” compounds that wouldn’t test positive on the drug test. Without a doubt some of these compounds are recreational drugs such as pot or whatever which brings up a whole other debate but certainly other PEDs can slip through the system aswell. This isn’t a complaint that people that pass fed administered tests aren’t clean because it would be naive to think athletes aren’t cheating WADA tests aswell; however, it all comes back to legitimacy as a sport. If the goal is to see powerlifting grow into a internationally recognized sport it needs to have rules and policy in place that differentiates it from anyone who lifts weights in the gym. Strict drug testing procedures are part of that legitimacy that allows the general public to believe they can compete in the sport aswell.

[quote]Whether you agree or disagree with testing, to gain legitimacy as an internationally recognized sport (ie Olympic consideration or similar recognition which would be the only way powerlifting would ever be televised probably) drug testing would be a given.

I wouldn’t mind seeing it become a more centralized organization but I would actually like to see it combine all aspects of powerlifting and more consistent judging. Have Multiply, Single ply, and Raw. Hell you can even do classic Raw like USPA does. But if they centralized it they would need to do a much better job about recruiting participants and increasing meet opportunities at the amateur level. The USTA in tennis is a good example of this.[/quote]

I think it is funny that people continue to say this, and then bash the IPF for having an elitist attitude (not talking directly to this poster). There isn’t a powerlifter on the planet that doesn’t know that if a lift was done in the IPF that the lift was legit. Some federations are notorious for garbage judging and some federations like the RPS, because it was brought up, are hit and miss. Some lifts are good and some garbage gets passed. There is absolutely no consistancy in other federations whether it be a “weighin whenever you want” rule or knowing that some meets you’ll be given a gift or cheaping out on drug testing. These are things that can’t fluctuate from meet to meet and regardless of which is “better” should be irrelevant. The fact of the matter is they need to be consistent and the only federation with a substantial amount of lifters that does that all the time is the IPF.

[quote]clutz15 wrote:
The fact of the matter is they need to be consistent and the only federation with a substantial amount of lifters that does that all the time is the IPF.
[/quote]

Amen!

[quote]clutz15 wrote:

[quote]grettiron wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]grettiron wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
My own standard is binary

A. Top 5 IPF World Classics Raw (or singleply IPF) in your weight class
B. Shit otherwise

Done.[/quote]

Except that IPF is shit, treats the lifters like subjects, and is trying desperately to crush all competition (other feds). It is a top-down organization that tells the lifters what they want, rather than the other way around.

So, anything but IPF. rawunitymeet.com/Rule-14.9.html[/quote]

(1) I meant the totals needed to be there - take the average or whatever. Don’t have to actually be there competing. No other fed or event has the same depth of quality lifters so far - maybe RAW unity will have that at some point in the future - but then again they will have the problem of not testing for PEDs at all.

(2) Only problem with the IPF benchmark is for lifters like you who prefer to squat with wraps.[/quote]

  1. Not a problem for PEDs. RPS has (and I think USPA will have) an option to enter a tested division. That way, if you think you have a shot at some records, you can lift tested. If not, you just lift and not worry about it.

  2. Yes, there’s that too. Why don’t they have a wraps division, despite their popularity? Way too authoritarian. These are the people who wanted to enforce a minimum bench ROM rule. [/quote]

The Federation administered drug testing appears to eliminate PED use (and very well might); however, what organization does the testing in the RPS? I’ll take a wild guess and say its something not WADA because I doubt lifters are biting the bullet on a 2 grand drug test for the sake of a “record”. This has already been brought up that people point and laugh at the stringency of WADA’s drug testing but the fact is other organizations charge per compound tested for. This eliminates a huge portion of the cost but obviously means that there is hundreds of “illegal” compounds that wouldn’t test positive on the drug test. Without a doubt some of these compounds are recreational drugs such as pot or whatever which brings up a whole other debate but certainly other PEDs can slip through the system aswell. This isn’t a complaint that people that pass fed administered tests aren’t clean because it would be naive to think athletes aren’t cheating WADA tests aswell; however, it all comes back to legitimacy as a sport. If the goal is to see powerlifting grow into a internationally recognized sport it needs to have rules and policy in place that differentiates it from anyone who lifts weights in the gym. Strict drug testing procedures are part of that legitimacy that allows the general public to believe they can compete in the sport aswell.

[quote]Whether you agree or disagree with testing, to gain legitimacy as an internationally recognized sport (ie Olympic consideration or similar recognition which would be the only way powerlifting would ever be televised probably) drug testing would be a given.

I wouldn’t mind seeing it become a more centralized organization but I would actually like to see it combine all aspects of powerlifting and more consistent judging. Have Multiply, Single ply, and Raw. Hell you can even do classic Raw like USPA does. But if they centralized it they would need to do a much better job about recruiting participants and increasing meet opportunities at the amateur level. The USTA in tennis is a good example of this.[/quote]

I think it is funny that people continue to say this, and then bash the IPF for having an elitist attitude (not talking directly to this poster). There isn’t a powerlifter on the planet that doesn’t know that if a lift was done in the IPF that the lift was legit. Some federations are notorious for garbage judging and some federations like the RPS, because it was brought up, are hit and miss. Some lifts are good and some garbage gets passed. There is absolutely no consistancy in other federations whether it be a “weighin whenever you want” rule or knowing that some meets you’ll be given a gift or cheaping out on drug testing. These are things that can’t fluctuate from meet to meet and regardless of which is “better” should be irrelevant. The fact of the matter is they need to be consistent and the only federation with a substantial amount of lifters that does that all the time is the IPF.
[/quote]

So you bring up some interesting points. First off, 2 grand!? Holy crap. For that level of testing to become the norm in competition all but eliminates “private” competitors… that is, people who are not part of a national team or have heavy corporate sponsorship. The company that handled my test was Quest Diagnostics, just some huge drug testing company. I’m sure they didn’t test for the full WADA prohibited list.

But, if the rigorous drug testing is a prerequisite for internationally recognized legitimacy, and the cost is steep, then it will quantifiably become elitist. If you can’t lift in “legitimate” competition without being sponsored by the Postal Service or Discovery Channel, then pretty much every part-time powerlifter (almost everyone) will be excluded.

This kills powerlifting as a sport that anyone with a gym membership and some dedication can participate in. For what, to be on TV? To make it to the Olympics? Get involved with the IOC? That’s shady on an entirely different level.

[quote]grettiron wrote:
TL:DR

IPF suppresses freedom of association in South Africa with the threat of State violence. Forces WPC, via threat of violence, to drug test despite the fact that WPC is an untested fed.

Suppression of basic human rights via threat of violence is not the behavior of an organization that deserves respect.[/quote]

If you think a powerlifting federation has that kind of power, I’ve got some ocean front property in Montana to sell to you.

[quote]grettiron wrote:

[quote]clutz15 wrote:

[quote]grettiron wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]grettiron wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
My own standard is binary

A. Top 5 IPF World Classics Raw (or singleply IPF) in your weight class
B. Shit otherwise

Done.[/quote]

Except that IPF is shit, treats the lifters like subjects, and is trying desperately to crush all competition (other feds). It is a top-down organization that tells the lifters what they want, rather than the other way around.

So, anything but IPF. rawunitymeet.com/Rule-14.9.html[/quote]

(1) I meant the totals needed to be there - take the average or whatever. Don’t have to actually be there competing. No other fed or event has the same depth of quality lifters so far - maybe RAW unity will have that at some point in the future - but then again they will have the problem of not testing for PEDs at all.

(2) Only problem with the IPF benchmark is for lifters like you who prefer to squat with wraps.[/quote]

  1. Not a problem for PEDs. RPS has (and I think USPA will have) an option to enter a tested division. That way, if you think you have a shot at some records, you can lift tested. If not, you just lift and not worry about it.

  2. Yes, there’s that too. Why don’t they have a wraps division, despite their popularity? Way too authoritarian. These are the people who wanted to enforce a minimum bench ROM rule. [/quote]

The Federation administered drug testing appears to eliminate PED use (and very well might); however, what organization does the testing in the RPS? I’ll take a wild guess and say its something not WADA because I doubt lifters are biting the bullet on a 2 grand drug test for the sake of a “record”. This has already been brought up that people point and laugh at the stringency of WADA’s drug testing but the fact is other organizations charge per compound tested for. This eliminates a huge portion of the cost but obviously means that there is hundreds of “illegal” compounds that wouldn’t test positive on the drug test. Without a doubt some of these compounds are recreational drugs such as pot or whatever which brings up a whole other debate but certainly other PEDs can slip through the system aswell. This isn’t a complaint that people that pass fed administered tests aren’t clean because it would be naive to think athletes aren’t cheating WADA tests aswell; however, it all comes back to legitimacy as a sport. If the goal is to see powerlifting grow into a internationally recognized sport it needs to have rules and policy in place that differentiates it from anyone who lifts weights in the gym. Strict drug testing procedures are part of that legitimacy that allows the general public to believe they can compete in the sport aswell.

[quote]Whether you agree or disagree with testing, to gain legitimacy as an internationally recognized sport (ie Olympic consideration or similar recognition which would be the only way powerlifting would ever be televised probably) drug testing would be a given.

I wouldn’t mind seeing it become a more centralized organization but I would actually like to see it combine all aspects of powerlifting and more consistent judging. Have Multiply, Single ply, and Raw. Hell you can even do classic Raw like USPA does. But if they centralized it they would need to do a much better job about recruiting participants and increasing meet opportunities at the amateur level. The USTA in tennis is a good example of this.[/quote]

I think it is funny that people continue to say this, and then bash the IPF for having an elitist attitude (not talking directly to this poster). There isn’t a powerlifter on the planet that doesn’t know that if a lift was done in the IPF that the lift was legit. Some federations are notorious for garbage judging and some federations like the RPS, because it was brought up, are hit and miss. Some lifts are good and some garbage gets passed. There is absolutely no consistancy in other federations whether it be a “weighin whenever you want” rule or knowing that some meets you’ll be given a gift or cheaping out on drug testing. These are things that can’t fluctuate from meet to meet and regardless of which is “better” should be irrelevant. The fact of the matter is they need to be consistent and the only federation with a substantial amount of lifters that does that all the time is the IPF.
[/quote]

So you bring up some interesting points. First off, 2 grand!? Holy crap. For that level of testing to become the norm in competition all but eliminates “private” competitors… that is, people who are not part of a national team or have heavy corporate sponsorship. The company that handled my test was Quest Diagnostics, just some huge drug testing company. I’m sure they didn’t test for the full WADA prohibited list.

But, if the rigorous drug testing is a prerequisite for internationally recognized legitimacy, and the cost is steep, then it will quantifiably become elitist. If you can’t lift in “legitimate” competition without being sponsored by the Postal Service or Discovery Channel, then pretty much every part-time powerlifter (almost everyone) will be excluded.

This kills powerlifting as a sport that anyone with a gym membership and some dedication can participate in. For what, to be on TV? To make it to the Olympics? Get involved with the IOC? That’s shady on an entirely different level.[/quote]

The IPF pays the drug test, not the lifters. When they are investing this kind of money as an organization to “prove” the legitimacy of the competitors you can see why an elitist attitude exists against other federations that make powerlifting look like a circus act.

[quote]clutz15 wrote:
The IPF pays the drug test, not the lifters. When they are investing this kind of money as an organization to “prove” the legitimacy of the competitors you can see why an elitist attitude exists against other federations that make powerlifting look like a circus act.[/quote]
Are you saying that other feds are a circus act because they allow non-tested athletes to compete? What exactly is illegitimate about an assisted athlete competing in an untested event?

Here is 475x5 from this weeks training. Any thoughts?

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]clutz15 wrote:
The IPF pays the drug test, not the lifters. When they are investing this kind of money as an organization to “prove” the legitimacy of the competitors you can see why an elitist attitude exists against other federations that make powerlifting look like a circus act.[/quote]
Are you saying that other feds are a circus act because they allow non-tested athletes to compete? What exactly is illegitimate about an assisted athlete competing in an untested event?[/quote]

I’m speaking more so about the whole package. Obnoxiously high squats, stuffing things under your shirt to bench etc. I honestly don’t even have an issue with non tested Feds or whatever but if the goal is international recognition as a sport legitimate drug testing is important.

[quote]clutz15 wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]clutz15 wrote:
The IPF pays the drug test, not the lifters. When they are investing this kind of money as an organization to “prove” the legitimacy of the competitors you can see why an elitist attitude exists against other federations that make powerlifting look like a circus act.[/quote]
Are you saying that other feds are a circus act because they allow non-tested athletes to compete? What exactly is illegitimate about an assisted athlete competing in an untested event?[/quote]

I’m speaking more so about the whole package. Obnoxiously high squats, stuffing things under your shirt to bench etc. I honestly don’t even have an issue with non tested Feds or whatever but if the goal is international recognition as a sport legitimate drug testing is important.[/quote]
Yea I figured that’s what you meant. I agree of course about the judging issues and straight up cheating (knee wrap stuffed under your shirt). And you’re probably correct as well about the recognition, even though I don’t personally agree with it.

However doesn’t that mean that the money they spend to drug test has nothing to do with the perceived elitism?

[quote]jonalderson85 wrote:
Here is 475x5 from this weeks training. Any thoughts?

[/quote]
You’ll be good to go dude. Strong squats.

I don’t think that the extremely strenuous drug testing is necessary at all levels for that level of “legitimacy” given to other sports. I mentioned the USTA for tennis earlier. They compile statistics on thousands of players all the way down to local clubs, my small town has two, and give them performance based rankings. As one climbs the they get to participate in more and more prestigious tournaments and invitationals (from my understanding).

The competition is also held to much higher standards as you climb that ladder (ie they actually get line judges; or in powerlifting, the drug testing would become more strenuous). Then if a lifter was unable to maintain performance they would simply be demoted down the skill ladder. It sounds much more complicated than it is but I think that system would work well for expanding powerlifting.

To be honest I don’t take people bitching about the rules of the ipf very seriously. Not that they are necessarily wrong, but hey fucking deal with it like every SERIOUS athlete in other sports do. Only good reason to avoid the IPF imo is if you want to use PEDs in copious amounts and/or can’t be arsed to evade possible testing (ha). And no I didn’t overlook the whole multiply stuff.

OP: Squat depth looks fine.

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
I don’t think that the extremely strenuous drug testing is necessary at all levels for that level of “legitimacy” given to other sports. I mentioned the USTA for tennis earlier. They compile statistics on thousands of players all the way down to local clubs, my small town has two, and give them performance based rankings. As one climbs the they get to participate in more and more prestigious tournaments and invitationals (from my understanding).

The competition is also held to much higher standards as you climb that ladder (ie they actually get line judges; or in powerlifting, the drug testing would become more strenuous). Then if a lifter was unable to maintain performance they would simply be demoted down the skill ladder. It sounds much more complicated than it is but I think that system would work well for expanding powerlifting. [/quote]

That sounds like a great way to do it!

CLutz: where does the money come from to do the testing? Are they only testing the top few lifters per meet?

[quote]grettiron wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
I don’t think that the extremely strenuous drug testing is necessary at all levels for that level of “legitimacy” given to other sports. I mentioned the USTA for tennis earlier. They compile statistics on thousands of players all the way down to local clubs, my small town has two, and give them performance based rankings. As one climbs the they get to participate in more and more prestigious tournaments and invitationals (from my understanding).

The competition is also held to much higher standards as you climb that ladder (ie they actually get line judges; or in powerlifting, the drug testing would become more strenuous). Then if a lifter was unable to maintain performance they would simply be demoted down the skill ladder. It sounds much more complicated than it is but I think that system would work well for expanding powerlifting. [/quote]

That sounds like a great way to do it!

CLutz: where does the money come from to do the testing? Are they only testing the top few lifters per meet? [/quote]

Every meet, the meet director is charged a dollar amount per lifter (10$ I think it is) which is put into a pool for testing. So technically every lifter who competes in an IPF (CPU/USAPL etc) sanctioned meet pays for the drug tests. The CCES is responsible for showing up to do drug testing, so they could show up at any sanctioned meet; however, showing up at some dinky little meet to test a 150 wilks lifter is a poor allocation of resources. This does happen sometimes but the higher level competition you go to the more drug testing. This is a large reason why you can only break national records at a certain level competition, or must compete at at international meet to break world records. After breaking a world record the CCES follows you around from the time you comply to the test (if you refuse its a 2 year suspension and 500 euro reinstatement fine I believe) to the time you are finished with the testing procedures. The other thing that comes with WADA is out of meet testing. Anyone who has had a membership card to an IPF affiliate in the past year can have WADA show up at there door step and demand a piss test. Again failure to comply results in a suspension.

OP: Squats look good man!

[quote]clutz15 wrote:

[quote]grettiron wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
I don’t think that the extremely strenuous drug testing is necessary at all levels for that level of “legitimacy” given to other sports. I mentioned the USTA for tennis earlier. They compile statistics on thousands of players all the way down to local clubs, my small town has two, and give them performance based rankings. As one climbs the they get to participate in more and more prestigious tournaments and invitationals (from my understanding).

The competition is also held to much higher standards as you climb that ladder (ie they actually get line judges; or in powerlifting, the drug testing would become more strenuous). Then if a lifter was unable to maintain performance they would simply be demoted down the skill ladder. It sounds much more complicated than it is but I think that system would work well for expanding powerlifting. [/quote]

That sounds like a great way to do it!

CLutz: where does the money come from to do the testing? Are they only testing the top few lifters per meet? [/quote]

Every meet, the meet director is charged a dollar amount per lifter (10$ I think it is) which is put into a pool for testing. So technically every lifter who competes in an IPF (CPU/USAPL etc) sanctioned meet pays for the drug tests. The CCES is responsible for showing up to do drug testing, so they could show up at any sanctioned meet; however, showing up at some dinky little meet to test a 150 wilks lifter is a poor allocation of resources. This does happen sometimes but the higher level competition you go to the more drug testing. This is a large reason why you can only break national records at a certain level competition, or must compete at at international meet to break world records. After breaking a world record the CCES follows you around from the time you comply to the test (if you refuse its a 2 year suspension and 500 euro reinstatement fine I believe) to the time you are finished with the testing procedures. The other thing that comes with WADA is out of meet testing. Anyone who has had a membership card to an IPF affiliate in the past year can have WADA show up at there door step and demand a piss test. Again failure to comply results in a suspension.

OP: Squats look good man!
[/quote]

Refusal to test is lifetime suspension, at least in the cpu.

[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:

[quote]clutz15 wrote:

[quote]grettiron wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
I don’t think that the extremely strenuous drug testing is necessary at all levels for that level of “legitimacy” given to other sports. I mentioned the USTA for tennis earlier. They compile statistics on thousands of players all the way down to local clubs, my small town has two, and give them performance based rankings. As one climbs the they get to participate in more and more prestigious tournaments and invitationals (from my understanding).

The competition is also held to much higher standards as you climb that ladder (ie they actually get line judges; or in powerlifting, the drug testing would become more strenuous). Then if a lifter was unable to maintain performance they would simply be demoted down the skill ladder. It sounds much more complicated than it is but I think that system would work well for expanding powerlifting. [/quote]

That sounds like a great way to do it!

CLutz: where does the money come from to do the testing? Are they only testing the top few lifters per meet? [/quote]

Every meet, the meet director is charged a dollar amount per lifter (10$ I think it is) which is put into a pool for testing. So technically every lifter who competes in an IPF (CPU/USAPL etc) sanctioned meet pays for the drug tests. The CCES is responsible for showing up to do drug testing, so they could show up at any sanctioned meet; however, showing up at some dinky little meet to test a 150 wilks lifter is a poor allocation of resources. This does happen sometimes but the higher level competition you go to the more drug testing. This is a large reason why you can only break national records at a certain level competition, or must compete at at international meet to break world records. After breaking a world record the CCES follows you around from the time you comply to the test (if you refuse its a 2 year suspension and 500 euro reinstatement fine I believe) to the time you are finished with the testing procedures. The other thing that comes with WADA is out of meet testing. Anyone who has had a membership card to an IPF affiliate in the past year can have WADA show up at there door step and demand a piss test. Again failure to comply results in a suspension.

OP: Squats look good man!
[/quote]

Refusal to test is lifetime suspension, at least in the cpu.

[/quote]

I was hoping you’d chime in!

[quote]jonalderson85 wrote:
Here is 475x5 from this weeks training. Any thoughts?

Nice lifts! And great music choice with the FFDP

[quote]clutz15 wrote:

[quote]grettiron wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
I don’t think that the extremely strenuous drug testing is necessary at all levels for that level of “legitimacy” given to other sports. I mentioned the USTA for tennis earlier. They compile statistics on thousands of players all the way down to local clubs, my small town has two, and give them performance based rankings. As one climbs the they get to participate in more and more prestigious tournaments and invitationals (from my understanding).

The competition is also held to much higher standards as you climb that ladder (ie they actually get line judges; or in powerlifting, the drug testing would become more strenuous). Then if a lifter was unable to maintain performance they would simply be demoted down the skill ladder. It sounds much more complicated than it is but I think that system would work well for expanding powerlifting. [/quote]

That sounds like a great way to do it!

CLutz: where does the money come from to do the testing? Are they only testing the top few lifters per meet? [/quote]

Every meet, the meet director is charged a dollar amount per lifter (10$ I think it is) which is put into a pool for testing. So technically every lifter who competes in an IPF (CPU/USAPL etc) sanctioned meet pays for the drug tests. The CCES is responsible for showing up to do drug testing, so they could show up at any sanctioned meet; however, showing up at some dinky little meet to test a 150 wilks lifter is a poor allocation of resources. This does happen sometimes but the higher level competition you go to the more drug testing. This is a large reason why you can only break national records at a certain level competition, or must compete at at international meet to break world records. After breaking a world record the CCES follows you around from the time you comply to the test (if you refuse its a 2 year suspension and 500 euro reinstatement fine I believe) to the time you are finished with the testing procedures. The other thing that comes with WADA is out of meet testing. Anyone who has had a membership card to an IPF affiliate in the past year can have WADA show up at there door step and demand a piss test. Again failure to comply results in a suspension.

OP: Squats look good man!
[/quote]

CCES is only for Canada. Part of the reason it is so expensive ($2000 for two tests IIRC) is that they have a monopoly as the only WADA certified agency in Canada. The other reason is as you describe - they follow a very careful and strict procedure to ensure that no one can claim any tampering. I was at a CPF contest where I saw one lifter administer a drug test for another. That would never hold up under a court challenge.

[quote]OBoile wrote:

[quote]clutz15 wrote:

[quote]grettiron wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
I don’t think that the extremely strenuous drug testing is necessary at all levels for that level of “legitimacy” given to other sports. I mentioned the USTA for tennis earlier. They compile statistics on thousands of players all the way down to local clubs, my small town has two, and give them performance based rankings. As one climbs the they get to participate in more and more prestigious tournaments and invitationals (from my understanding).

The competition is also held to much higher standards as you climb that ladder (ie they actually get line judges; or in powerlifting, the drug testing would become more strenuous). Then if a lifter was unable to maintain performance they would simply be demoted down the skill ladder. It sounds much more complicated than it is but I think that system would work well for expanding powerlifting. [/quote]

That sounds like a great way to do it!

CLutz: where does the money come from to do the testing? Are they only testing the top few lifters per meet? [/quote]

Every meet, the meet director is charged a dollar amount per lifter (10$ I think it is) which is put into a pool for testing. So technically every lifter who competes in an IPF (CPU/USAPL etc) sanctioned meet pays for the drug tests. The CCES is responsible for showing up to do drug testing, so they could show up at any sanctioned meet; however, showing up at some dinky little meet to test a 150 wilks lifter is a poor allocation of resources. This does happen sometimes but the higher level competition you go to the more drug testing. This is a large reason why you can only break national records at a certain level competition, or must compete at at international meet to break world records. After breaking a world record the CCES follows you around from the time you comply to the test (if you refuse its a 2 year suspension and 500 euro reinstatement fine I believe) to the time you are finished with the testing procedures. The other thing that comes with WADA is out of meet testing. Anyone who has had a membership card to an IPF affiliate in the past year can have WADA show up at there door step and demand a piss test. Again failure to comply results in a suspension.

OP: Squats look good man!
[/quote]

CCES is only for Canada. Part of the reason it is so expensive ($2000 for two tests IIRC) is that they have a monopoly as the only WADA certified agency in Canada. The other reason is as you describe - they follow a very careful and strict procedure to ensure that no one can claim any tampering. I was at a CPF contest where I saw one lifter administer a drug test for another. That would never hold up under a court challenge.
[/quote]

Thanks for the clarification!