Is soreness an indicator of hypertrophy?
No – soreness is not an indication of muscle growth.
No- soreness is an indicator of lack of condioning.
[quote]crazyman wrote:
Is soreness an indicator of hypertrophy?[/quote]
Just to elaborate on what’s been said, soreness may or may not mean muscle growth.
You can grow without getting sore, so if a workout doesn’t leave you aching for days, don’t think it was a waste of time.
Alternately, you can be sore without necessarily stimulating muscle growth. When you introduce a new exercise (hint, hint), new set/rep scheme, or new training method (such as supersets or rest-pause), you’ll be sore because you’ve never done “that” before. It’s just the body saying “WTF, bro?”
The longer you use whatever exercise/set-rep scheme/method, the less you’ll notice the soreness. Like Stuward was getting at, it’s a matter of conditioning, which will improve the more you use it.
Example 1: lunges 2x15, leg extensions 2x50, followed by more lunges 2x15.
Very sore for many days afterwards, not likely to get stronger or bigger.
Example 2: squat 6x4.
Likely sore for a few days afterwards, but the intensity of the soreness should dissipate after two weeks. And along the way, you’ll get bigger and stronger.
I’m gonna go the other direction and say that yes, soreness is a sign of muscle damage (and therefore recovery/potential growth).
Now I do agree with Chris that the magnitude of the soreness will decrease as your body becomes more and more accustomed to the stimulus. So, crippling levels of soreness aren’t necessary.
But, if you aren’t even the least bit sore the day (or second day) after your workout, then chances are you didn’t really push your body beyond what it’s comfort zone/adaptation threshold (don’t know if that’s an actual term, but I hope it makes sense).
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
I’m gonna go the other direction and say that yes, soreness is a sign of muscle damage (and therefore recovery/potential growth).[/quote]
But not always, would we agree on that? Just because you’re sore doesn’t automatically mean you did a good job. You can do things to your body that leave you sore, yet don’t cause significant or effective signals for muscle growth (see my above “example 1” workout).
Ha, if that isn’t a term, it should be, starting now. And yep, it makes sense. I think the moral of this whole story is like Charles Staley always says…manage fatigue, don’t seek it. Proper PWO nutrition (like Surge) and recuperative methods (active recovery, massage, etc.) can help to reduce soreness and the “aftermath” of hard training, without compromising the effectiveness.
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
I’m gonna go the other direction and say that yes, soreness is a sign of muscle damage (and therefore recovery/potential growth).
But not always, would we agree on that? Just because you’re sore doesn’t automatically mean you did a good job. You can do things to your body that leave you sore, yet don’t cause significant or effective signals for muscle growth (see my above “example 1” workout).
[/quote]
Yes, we do agree that it’s not always a sign that muscle growth will occur. Heck, you could have a buddy smash you in the legs with a baseball bat and you’re going to be sore as hell for the next week, but that won’t make your legs hyooge.
I will say though that if you’re sore after a workout then you have caused muscle damage and you will get some super compensation (muscle growth). Soreness is a part of the recovery process, so you’re not going to have it unless you did damage that your body needs to recover from.
Now as for your example 1 workout, first really no one single workout is going to result in huge increases in size and strength (as I’m sure you already know). It takes many consistently more challenging workouts (progressive overload) over the course of years to put on significant amounts of size and strength.
Both workout 1 and 2 will cause increases in size and strength provided that one uses progressively heavier loads and eats enough calories to support growth. True, one will be more efficient at building maximal strength and one will be more efficient at building strength endurance. But their effect on muscle size really is more dependent on the individual trainee, diet and whether or not progressive overload is applied.
[quote]
But, if you aren’t even the least bit sore the day (or second day) after your workout, then chances are you didn’t really push your body beyond what it’s comfort zone/adaptation threshold (don’t know if that’s an actual term, but I hope it makes sense).
Ha, if that isn’t a term, it should be, starting now. And yep, it makes sense. I think the moral of this whole story is like Charles Staley always says…manage fatigue, don’t seek it. Proper PWO nutrition (like Surge) and recuperative methods (active recovery, massage, etc.) can help to reduce soreness and the “aftermath” of hard training, without compromising the effectiveness.[/quote]
Yes, you’re right of course that if we apply good recovery/recuperative methods then we can minimize soreness (which is good). But, IMO if you’ve really pushed your body beyond it’s adaptation threshold, then you’re going to be at least a little sore, even if you use the best recuperative methods available.
As far as Staley’s comment, I completely understand what he’s trying to say, in that once we’ve passed our adaptation threshold continuing to smash our bodies into oblivion isn’t really productive. But, I guess I don’t really like his wording all that much as we do actually need to seek fatigue, without it muscle isn’t going to grow. We just also need to be careful not to go overboard in our pursuit of fatigue (“manage” it if you will).
I agree, if you’re sore and eating right, then you’re growing. Maybe not 100% of the time, but it’s a good rule of thumb.