Some Training Videos

Training
21

[quote]IronClaws wrote:
A lot of people working full time jobs, doing boxing training a couple hours a week, barely doing any road-work, 3hours of strength training a week (if that) no, you aren’t going to win a fight against someone who trains 7 days a week, who trains every-day until the breaking point, who has x2 or x3 your conditioning. That’s also, realistic.[/quote]

If the person who is only a training a small amount has great technique, they could very well beat someone who has awesome “conditioning” (by the way, conditioning for fighting comes from hard pad rounds and SPARRING. I’ve seen some very high level athletes come to my gym and gas within a round of sparring.)

22

IronClaws,

Stop it.

Just stop it.

If you are not just trying to argue, then take a step back and figure out what it is that we are saying that so offends you.

Please stop trying to couch your argument with scientific/physiological terms. In some cases you are mis-using them and no one here will hold it against you if you use informal/common language.

No one is saying not to push conditioning. No one. What most everyone is saying is that technique plays such a large role that everything else must be secondary. In this light the conditioning gets framed as a means to allow you to display your technique longer, and to train your techniques harder/longer.

No one is claiming that being weaker is an advantage. It is simply a matter of diminishing returns. Once you have to put a lot of planning and effort into getting more pounds on the bar than it becomes a matter of figuring out what is the best use of resources. Once the quest for pure strength starts interfering with technique work or conditioning it is usually time to step back and evaluate priorities. If you can get stronger, do so. Just do not pursue strength at the expense of technique. If you live with a maul in your hands you have to have an appreciation for how technique allows you to apply strength efficiently.

What a few of us are trying to point out is that ultimately “effectiveness” in striking also requires timing, accuracy, a mastery of distance, footwork, angles, and the ability not to have your dick knocked stiff by the other guy. None of this is improved by simply smashing away at objects. This is why we are stressing that you get qualified instruction. I will go so far as to say that your training set up is teaching you habits that are contrary to the development of these qualities.

None of your videos do much to bolster your previous claims of being able to sustain 2 hours of non-stop hammer work (and if you are stopping to loosen up or bounce around it may not fit everyone’s definition of non-stop) and bone shattering power. I have to ask what exactly are you trying to accomplish by posting them? If you were soliciting feedback you perhaps shouldn’t have started by overstating your abilities and casting aspersions towards a pro fighter on this board.

Finally, if you do honestly want some tips about breaking the habit of pushing with your punches I can type something up. But please stop being so antagonistic with people who are trying to help you.

Regards,

Robert A

23

I agree with most of that. Though some people have said strength training was unimportant and could be dropped for a fighter. Regardless:

For the record splitting through massive pieces of unseasoned hardwood, before it’s cold out, creates more impact than beating on a tire with hardwood beaten into the ground beneath it. (which is what I can do 8 hours of on a sledge hammer with a vest.) Striking a piece of wood that requires a 100% explosive movement, my very best swings, each and evey-time is harder on the body.

Secondly the physics of using a maul and sledge hammer are slightly different, they require slightly different demands on the body, a slightly different style of swinging to bust through wood. I have found the maul a lot more brutal on my elbow tendons than sledge work on objects. It’s hard to explain.

Secondly, me splitting some massive piece of wood in a SEA OF WOOD, with a maul, kind of does support my claims. if you think a regular person who doesn’t use a maul or sledge hammer a lot, could even split that wood, (after splitting all the other wood around me)you are kidding yourself. Those are pieces other people use a sledge hammer/maul or chain-saw to cut through. So yeah. (it’s also later in the day, after I had been splitting wood for hours.)

The sun is going down, there’s a giant pile of split pieces of wood, it would take any person some huge amount of time to get through. Not sure how it doesn’t lend credit to my claim, or that it was even supposed too? it’s not a sledge hammer. It was just an example of the type of conditioning that keeps my elbow joints/tendons strong.

24

[quote]IronClaws wrote:

have any of you shit-talkers been hit by anyone who works a sledge hammer every-day for hours, or a serious lumberjack that works the heavy-bag? one that was 200pounds? It felt like a tap? [/quote]

THIS IS THE GREATEST LINE THAT HAS EVER BEEN POSTED ON THIS FORUM!!!

All you pussies, when was the last time YOU got into a fight with a fucking LUMBERJACK that WORKS THE HEAVY BAG, HUH???

Hahahah, this guy fucking rules. He rules hard.

25

[quote]IronClaws wrote:
I agree with most of that. Though some people have said strength training was unimportant and could be dropped for a fighter. Regardless:
[/quote]

No, that sentiment is really not what has been stated. It is more the case that the point of diminishing returns is hit fairly early for amateur or pro BOXER’s. Sports with more clinching/grappling seem to be able to reap greater benefits from weight room/strongman type work.

This sentiment is also backed up by research.

[quote]

For the record splitting through massive pieces of unseasoned hardwood, before it’s cold out, creates more impact than beating on a tire with hardwood beaten into the ground beneath it. (which is what I can do 8 hours of on a sledge hammer with a vest.) Striking a piece of wood that requires a 100% explosive movement, my very best swings, each and evey-time is harder on the body.

Secondly the physics of using a maul and sledge hammer are slightly different, they require slightly different demands on the body, a slightly different style of swinging to bust through wood. I have found the maul a lot more brutal on my elbow tendons than sledge work on objects. It’s hard to explain.

Secondly, me splitting some massive piece of wood in a SEA OF WOOD, with a maul, kind of does support my claims. if you think a regular person who doesn’t use a maul or sledge hammer a lot, could even split that wood, (after splitting all the other wood around me)you are kidding yourself. Those are pieces other people use a sledge hammer/maul or chain-saw to cut through. So yeah. (it’s also later in the day, after I had been splitting wood for hours.)

The sun is going down, there’s a giant pile of split pieces of wood, it would take any person some huge amount of time to get through. Not sure how it doesn’t lend credit to my claim, or that it was even supposed too? it’s not a sledge hammer. It was just an example of the type of conditioning that keeps my elbow joints/tendons strong.[/quote]
That is fine. I am not calling you a liar. I will point out that if you are offering the video as evidence than we need to be honest about the proposition that the wood was split by more than one person, or that it was done over a period of days. Again, I am not trying to take issue about this. I have between zero and very little experience splitting wood. I am asking

WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH WITH:

1.) Your training

2.) Your posting

Regards,

Robert A

26

1.) Which training? If you are asking about the shadow striking I was attempting to warm-up a bit before the heavy-bag and to post it up here and get criticisms on whether I was “pushing punches” or if was snapping my arm enough or etc. I’ve already heard some good advice on the video. to get honest feedback I suppose. (which I did, mouth should be closed, etc)

overall I want to be good at weaving and bobbing and striking hard and fast not necessarily a skilled boxer playing chess, someone who can over-come someone with bursts of anaerobic power. (not that I think I am like that now) but that’s the goal. I want to totally over-whelm my opponents not win on “points” or tiring them down. I want knockouts or to punish the body.

  1. My posting, again depends. about the wood-splitting to give an example of good GPP? (particularly one that helped decrease damage to elbow joints/tendons) to express other thoughts??
27

[quote]IronClaws wrote:
You guys will probably get a good laugh out of this, but I am doing some “shadow striking” just warming up before a heavy-bag session, trying to get a sense of non-pushed punches and the left/right combo. pretty clumsy with the left but whatever. criticism welcome esp on the straight right.

the reason I keep doing the left repeatedly is it doesn’t “feel” right. I obviously need to practice the speed/snap of that punch.

and

(I also managed to ruin my punching bag. ripped apart as I was punching it. I’ll put a video up of that later, should make some people laugh.)[/quote]

I’m not trying to be a dick. so bare with me. When you throw your punches, your leaving them out there way to long. I was told this for years when i was doing kick boxing. They always said, bring that hand back to your jaw, as fast as your throw it out there. when you leave your punch out, you can be countered easily. so bring that punch back fast, even if you are just hitting the heavy bag.

28

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Ok, haven’t got much time but I’ll throw out a couple of things.

  1. You are leaving your punches out away from your body/hanging at the end (“waiting for an autograph”). Not only is that going to leave you open to getting counter punched, but unless you are throwing full power strikes where you are fully committing to the punches and therefore following through to the maximal extend possible it is also going to cause more of the force to “rebound” back into your body. You should just “whip” the punches out, remaining relaxed and loose (relaxation is the key to speed, and speed is a huge component in power), especially when shadow boxing. You never want to throw power punches in the air, that’s a good way to mess up your elbows. Save the power strikes for when you are actually hitting the bag.

  2. You should start implementing the “double contact” rule (got this one from Master Joe Lewis). That means that your fists/hands should always both be in contact with either your head or your target. So, when your jab goes out, your right hand is in contact with your head. When your jab comes back and your right hand goes out, your left hand should come right back to your head. This goes for every punch. If the left is landing, the right is up defending, and vice versa. Very advanced guys can get away with breaking this rule and there are variations on defensive hand positioning, but this is the easiest method for beginners to utilize to always be in a good defensive position and keep their hands up IME.

That’s all I have time to say atm, hopefully others will offer some more helpful advice.[/quote]

wow, we think alike. that was the first thing i saw. I didnt’ read any of the other responses, then i saw this one. if both people are throwing at the same time, you better bring your punches back fast or like you said, you will be countered very fast.

29

diminishing returns fairly quickly. you say so, but on what lifts are you talking about? As long as lifting can make you run faster, for longer, with more control, you are not reaching a level of diminishing returns worth talking about.

if you’re talking about a bench-press, yeah there’s probably pretty severe diminishing returns on that. Sledge-hammer work and maul work have less diminishing returns, sprinting less diminishing returns. fighting is also not just about striking, but absorbing blows, and keeping your muscles strong.

to squat a lot to dodge strikes is exhausting on the quads, a high rep squat program will help. at what point does this squatting start giving diminishing returns? It might start giving diminishing returns, but you will be squatting a pretty heavy weight for 20-30 reps before that happens. It’s not a real concern. most fighters aren’t so strong that they need to worry about diminishing returns from lifting.

30

[quote]IronClaws wrote:
Yeah, I don’t watch the ultimate fighter and I do swing a maul or sledge-hammer every-day. I aspire to build up to a 12hour day on a 16pound sledge for reasons un-related to the ultimate fighter.

Besides that you won’t hear any real debate from me that skill and technique are probably the most important aspect of any fighter’s game. But on the same train of thought the best skill in the world won’t get you anywhere if your cardio, strength, anaerobic capacity/endurance and etc are sub-par. At the very least fighting an opponent who is more conditioned in every-way, it’s going to be a war whether your way more skilled or not. What should be easy fights, aren’t.

Look for a sparring partner some-time find someone who splits wood or uses a sledge hammer for hours and hours every-day, ones that seriously train their sprinting and etc. You’ll find out that even their clumsy punches probably feel like hammer blows, and when they cover up they can take a hell of a lot of punches, and then proceed to bomb you (clumsy or not) repeatedly.

Very few people here will ever achieve the level of skill that Gene Tunney did but still wanted “the solitude and the strenuous labors of the woods to help condition himself for the career that appeared before him.”

it conditions you for that type of thing. That’s all i’m saying.

have any of you shit-talkers been hit by anyone who works a sledge hammer every-day for hours, or a serious lumberjack that works the heavy-bag? one that was 200pounds? It felt like a tap? even the most unskilled person in the world is hitting harder than what is comfortable for anyone to absorb at that level of physical conditioning.

Which is why you can see strong-men who have no training at all drop their fist like a hammer and bring about something like 1300pounds of force, the kind of weight a strike a serious heavy-weight brings about. No, I am no strongman, but my point is that strong people, lacking any technique can still DROP the HAMMER.

but I never said skill wasn’t the most important or next important thing. I am largely in agreement about that. I am just of the belief that if you are a fighter, training to be a fighter, or whatever it’s a good idea to be as conditioned, as fit, as you humanly can be. A strength program is part of that, I’ve maintained that sentiment and have been called a “troll” for it.

A lot of people working full time jobs, doing boxing training a couple hours a week, barely doing any road-work, 3hours of strength training a week (if that) no, you aren’t going to win a fight against someone who trains 7 days a week, who trains every-day until the breaking point, who has x2 or x3 your conditioning. That’s also, realistic.[/quote]

please, stop being delusional.

Marcelinho Garcia can’t bench his own body-weight on the bench press for 1 rep and it’s tapping guys right and left on the absolute division.

Melvin Guillard supposedly had a 350lbs bench press(which i severely doubt it) and got knocked down and tapped by Joe Lauzon who doesn’t do almost nothing than specific skill work.

It’s not because you saw Brock Lesnar steam-rolling through people that it’s the absolute truth, just like at Super Mariusz…

31

I am no fan of brock-lesnar, I really don’t like him as a fighter, at all. I don’t think his mass or size would win out against skilled opponents. Look at crocop vs bob sapp, crocop hit him in the face and broke some facial bone. I am very well aware what you can do with skill. I am talking about fighters like earnie-shavers, gene-tunney, and rocky marciano. (hell even dempsey, I can find a picture of him with a sledge easy enough) even though he didn’t use traditional weights.

You can find some small example of fighters who were world-class without strength training you can find many that are world class that do. That’s not really worth-stating. the avg fighter improves with strength-training is all that I mean.

I also never once said that bench-press has any cross over. I wasn’t ever thinking bench-press either. It’s also important if you want to climb weight-classes as well. Not everyone is content to fight at their natural weight.

Also, when you hit the heavy bag it’s rough on the body. You can feel the strain on your back, legs and abs. Why is it i’ve developed abs, fairly good back musculature massive legs and calves if I am not hitting the bag at force? my physique for example was built on the heavy-bag. (to a lesser degree sprinting and sledge work but not as much as you’d think)

it’s bad technique but if it’s enough to transform your body, your probably whipping your torso and hitting pretty hard to begin with otherwise why would you be gaining muscle?

32

don’t forget about the GOAT!!!

Fedor Emelianenko

33

Thank’s rogue-vampire. good advice for sure. I’ll take that heavily into consideration. I tend to get counter-punched a lot, haha. No reason to take a punch I don’t have too, I’m probably also losing a bit of power on the punch maintaining contact too long. (when I do that on the heavy-bag)

I am in the bad habit of just blasting away at the heavy-bag too, I try to avoid it on mantis mitts/sparring, leaving the hand out there, but I guess the reason I do it now I do a lot more heavy-bag work and it’s become partially in-grained. Ill watch for that, thanks.

honest advice is good, hell even the most brutal criticisms here are good. A lot of people here probably think I’m a troll, but when I’m training i’ll be taking in a lot of what they said and adjusting. I probably am even going to do a little less conditioning and focus more on skill.

34

[quote]IronClaws wrote:

Secondly, me splitting some massive piece of wood in a SEA OF WOOD, with a maul, kind of does support my claims. if you think a regular person who doesn’t use a maul or sledge hammer a lot, could even split that wood, (after splitting all the other wood around me)you are kidding yourself. Those are pieces other people use a sledge hammer/maul or chain-saw to cut through. So yeah. (it’s also later in the day, after I had been splitting wood for hours.)
[/quote]

YOU HEAR THAT T-Nation!?

A SEA of WOOD!

And when IRONCLAWS begins fighting, the ring will be a SEA of BLOOD! A red wine bath of his opponents life force, laying on the canvas LIKE SO MANY PIECES OF CHOPPED TREE!!!

Shit! I mean “LIKE SO MANY PIECES OF SPLIT TREE!!!”

And he will wear their heads on his belt, like a slightly shorter Predator with stringier hair!

Rage! Goddess, sing the rage of Nova Scotia’s son Iron Claws,
murderous, doomed, that cost Nova Scotia countless losses,
hurling down to the House of Death so many sturdy souls,
great fighters’ souls, but made their bodies carrion,
feasts for the dogs and birds!

35

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]IronClaws wrote:

Secondly, me splitting some massive piece of wood in a SEA OF WOOD, with a maul, kind of does support my claims. if you think a regular person who doesn’t use a maul or sledge hammer a lot, could even split that wood, (after splitting all the other wood around me)you are kidding yourself. Those are pieces other people use a sledge hammer/maul or chain-saw to cut through. So yeah. (it’s also later in the day, after I had been splitting wood for hours.)
[/quote]

YOU HEAR THAT T-Nation!?

A SEA of WOOD!

And when IRONCLAWS begins fighting, the ring will be a SEA of BLOOD! A red wine bath of his opponents life force, laying on the canvas LIKE SO MANY PIECES OF CHOPPED TREE!!!

Shit! I mean “LIKE SO MANY PIECES OF SPLIT TREE!!!”

And he will wear their heads on his belt, like a slightly shorter Predator with stringier hair!

Rage! Goddess, sing the rage of Nova Scotia’s son Iron Claws,
murderous, doomed, that cost Nova Scotia countless losses,
hurling down to the House of Death so many sturdy souls,
great fighters’ souls, but made their bodies carrion,
feasts for the dogs and birds!
[/quote]

MODS:

If you print this on a T-Nation shirt I am in for 2. Anyone else? Come on, even IronClaws has to like this.

Regards,

Robert A

36

count me in.

It will own any TAPOUT that any MMAtarded might been using out there.

37

[quote]IronClaws wrote:
Thank’s rogue-vampire. good advice for sure. I’ll take that heavily into consideration. I tend to get counter-punched a lot, haha. No reason to take a punch I don’t have too, I’m probably also losing a bit of power on the punch maintaining contact too long. (when I do that on the heavy-bag)

I am in the bad habit of just blasting away at the heavy-bag too, I try to avoid it on mantis mitts/sparring, leaving the hand out there, but I guess the reason I do it now I do a lot more heavy-bag work and it’s become partially in-grained. Ill watch for that, thanks.

honest advice is good, hell even the most brutal criticisms here are good. A lot of people here probably think I’m a troll, but when I’m training i’ll be taking in a lot of what they said and adjusting. I probably am even going to do a little less conditioning and focus more on skill.
[/quote]

A perfect example of someone hitting the heavy bag with extreme speed and power and bringing their hands back fast, is Mike Tyson. Google mike tyson training on the heavy bag, its quite a scene watching him hit that bag. I’m talking his early years, when he first won the title or even better, right before he won.

38

me too.

This guy is so delusional he thinks he has bone shattering punches. The only way his ego is going to break is if he steps into a gym and spars and gets his ass kicked. Then he won’t be saying stupid crap like he’d never punch anyone without a glove and that how chopping one piece of wood a minute translates to punching power.

39

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]IronClaws wrote:

Secondly, me splitting some massive piece of wood in a SEA OF WOOD, with a maul, kind of does support my claims. if you think a regular person who doesn’t use a maul or sledge hammer a lot, could even split that wood, (after splitting all the other wood around me)you are kidding yourself. Those are pieces other people use a sledge hammer/maul or chain-saw to cut through. So yeah. (it’s also later in the day, after I had been splitting wood for hours.)
[/quote]

YOU HEAR THAT T-Nation!?

A SEA of WOOD!

And when IRONCLAWS begins fighting, the ring will be a SEA of BLOOD! A red wine bath of his opponents life force, laying on the canvas LIKE SO MANY PIECES OF CHOPPED TREE!!!

Shit! I mean “LIKE SO MANY PIECES OF SPLIT TREE!!!”

And he will wear their heads on his belt, like a slightly shorter Predator with stringier hair!

Rage! Goddess, sing the rage of Nova Scotia’s son Iron Claws,
murderous, doomed, that cost Nova Scotia countless losses,
hurling down to the House of Death so many sturdy souls,
great fighters’ souls, but made their bodies carrion,
feasts for the dogs and birds!
[/quote]

I fucking lol’ed.

Well done sir.

40

[quote]Grimlorn wrote:
me too.

This guy is so delusional he thinks he has bone shattering punches. The only way his ego is going to break is if he steps into a gym and spars and gets his ass kicked. Then he won’t be saying stupid crap like he’d never punch anyone without a glove and that how chopping one piece of wood a minute translates to punching power.[/quote]

Which is why he has yet to, and probably will never, do it.

He will spar, get his ass kicked, and his ego will shatter when he realizes not only did he not punch that hard, but he just wasted a year doing this crap when he should have just found a coach or a boxing gym.

This is like guys who want to lift weights, but for some reason or the other, say: “But I want to do it at home. Pushups, pullups, jumping.” Half the time, they’re intimidated by a weight room (God knows why), other times they want to be unique.