Social Help!

Off Topic
1

Alright, so I realize this is very off-topic, but after searching I’ve seen similar posts. I’m posting a new thred, despite these old ones for reference, because they’re similar issues, very different problems it seems.

So here I go:
I’ve been extremely shy for as long as I can remember. I think the reason I haven’t completely isolated myself is that I’ve also been very athletic and extremely competitive. Any social interaction I’ve had is because of sports…and playing hockey in college led to joining a frat, so some friends came of that.

My only girlfriend, ever, happened pretty much despite my shyness…she thought I was cute, invited me (through my frat brothers) to a party. The only reason I went is all the guys in my house were also going. I ended up drinking a ton, blacked out and…woke up in her bed. Somehow that escalated to us dating, though three things were missing: I never called her, we never went on dates, and I don’t think I ever even told her I liked her (though she was about all I could think about).

Anyway, now I’m 26, doing pretty well at my job despite my shyness (though it crop up big-time whenever I have to conduct interviews or generally chat with people…god I hate the feeling I get when that happens).

My big issue is that, at this point, the whole athletic and frat life is essentially over. A few of the guys from my fraternity live in the area–thank god–otherwise I don’t have a friend (though I’ve been here for 3 years). If I go to a party I 1) either play a drinking game, which is still a part of the social scene in my circle of friends, or 2) stand awkwardly in whatever corner I can find, trying not to make eye contact, occasionally venturing to one of my friends and sort of stand in his circle, act like I’m not ridiculously anxious to get the hell out of there. These always end in me blacking out or otherwise drinking far too much.

Oh, and I’ll also say this: I only drink once a month (if that) now, I’m in the gym 6 times a week and I certainly feel and look alot better. I’m considerably less depressed simply because of progress in the gym and reaching some very nice goals. But the social anxiety is still 100% there, and every time I go out I say to myself ‘I’m gonna talk to some people tonight, I’m going to be outgoing…’ Same result, I wind up in the corner drinking my beer, hoping someone doesn’t talk to me or I’ll have to pound my beer to get out of the conversation.

Alright, so if you’re still reading this, thoughts, help, anything? It’s so depressing it hurts, and I see my friends in great relationships with wonderful social lives and then there’s me, the drunk, single guy who I think most of my friends expect at this point to be by myself in a decade.

I hear my friends say their girlfriends don’t understand why I don’t have a female counterpart, that I’m cute and nice, blah, blah, blah…and yet they have no idea. Most people (and I’m guessing some responses to this thread will echo this) have said ‘grow a pair and just talk’.

Unless you’re dealing with this you have no idea, it’s not even close to that simple. That’s why I’ll respectably ask, if you’re going to respond with something like that, I’ve heard it a million times over…I’m looking for anyone who’s dealt with anything similar to give some insight into this. Thank you so much for any help, I truly appreciate it!

2

Maybe I can help. The thing is, in order to end up comfortable in situations like this, you have to push yourself outside your comfort zone.

Obviously right now, that may not sound fun or reasonable, but it is the best way to build confidence. Maye start slower by just talking more than normal to people you do know. Then try to continue on to people who are strangers like people ringing you up at the grocery store. The important part is to be confident.

If there’s a deeper lying reason you’re not comfortable because of insecurity or lack of confidence, then that may need to be addressed first.

3

See a shrink. For real.

4

I’ve been through similiar trials. I’m not going to in depth here but feel free to PM me if you want more info. The first thing you need to do is go to a psychologist. Now these guys are not omniscient and some of them aren’t even all that great but you need to start talking to someone about these problems you have been having. Yes, they are problems. You deserve a happier and more fulfilling life and to get there is going to take some hard work but it is worth it.

Seriously, tomorrow find a therapist. Think of them as a kind of life coach. If you wanted to learn to squat you’d call up someone who lifts. You need to learn some more effective social skills.

5

Hockechamp is right, talk more to people you know, then make harmless conversations with strangers. At the grocery store, at the gas station, at a store in the mall, wherever.

The thing is, there is a first for everything. You have to do it for the first time. When you do, and you feel good, then take it a little farther, then a little more. Pretty soon, you will be comfortable and it will be second nature.

Try this: Next time you go to the grocery store or any kind of store, talk to the cashier. A simple icebreaker will do. Are you having a good day so far? Has it been busy in the store today? Any big plans for the weekend?

At the end, tell the person have a nice day. You will feel more comfortable and will want to talk more to people. There are a lot of nice people out there.

Hope this helps.

6

As far as socializing with women, just be as playful with them as you can. Girls like playfulness. With guys, just find something you have common interest in, and talk about that, or plan to do those things that you both like to do. Like if you both liked hiking, plan a cool hiking trip.

7

Fuck seeing a therapist. He will bleed you dry. You do not sound like you have a serious mental disorder.

You know you need to man up and grow a pair. That is important. You just don’t know how to do it.

You should take a public speaking class. I would bet nothing makes you more nervous than getting up in front of a roomful of stangers and giving a speech. Once you complete a good public speaking course you will develop loads of self confidence in social situations.

Make your company pay for it.

8

Staying away from alcohol is the best thing you can do. So keep with that. You sound a lot like I used to be. I turned to alcohol as a way to bring me ‘out of my shell’. And it did, often times to unfortunate affect.

Be yourself and don’t sweat it. You’ll meet the perfect person when you least expect it. The more you don’t let this thing trouble you and just live…the more confidence and stablility you will exude. In other words: Stop worrying about it.

9

Not sure I can help much as I have the exact same problem, but I can commiserate at least. I do the exact same thing at bars and parties, sit in a corner and drink. Eventually I get drunk enough to talk to people, but by that point I realize I’m just saying dumb shit and go back to my corner to save myself the embarrassment. I can offer a couple of things though.

First, you said your athletic days and frat days are over. That may not be necessarily true. Look for a local men’s league of some sort. I play rugby for a men’s club and it’s very much like a fraternity. There’s always guys going out on the weekends and you get to run around and hit people on the pitch (beer and violence are my two greatest passions). Where in Mass are you? There are quite a few clubs around (I play in RI and most our games are against teams from MA), PM me if you’re interested or want more details. Most clubs don’t require any experience at all.

Hack has some pretty good advice. Worrying about being shy is the worst part of it, and only makes things worse. I know that more often than not, if I end up in a conversation with someone, I’m fine, it’s just the anxiety of doing so before it happens that’s the problem. I liken it to getting a shot at the doctors or getting a filling at the dentist,I get all anxious until I get there and they get started, then it’s like “oh, what the hell was I so fucking worried about?” And the worst part is, when standing in that corner, drinking that beer, all you’re doing is psyching yourself out thinking about all the terrible things that will happen if someone tries to talk to you. If you can distract yourself by actually talking to people, you’ll probably find it’s not as bad as standing there worrying about it.

One thing that’s worked for me is forcing myself to at least wander around or stand/sit somewhere where people are likely to walk by or sit down next to me. For instance, instead of hanging out at the corner table, go sit or stand near the middle of the bar. People are always going up to the bar for drinks, and usually stand waiting for a few minutes. Even if you can’t make yourself say something to them, there’s a good chance someone will say something to you. Hell, I’ve even gone to bars with a book, just sat and read, eventually someone (hopefully some smart, attractive girl interested in books) will come up and ask why you’re reading a book in a bar. Voila, conversation started (just make sure it’s not something too geeky).

Basically, just try to put yourself in a place or situation where people are more likely to talk to you. That takes the hard part out of it. Plus it lets you know that they’re interested in talking to you, since they started the conversation. You’re not standing there rambling with that nagging voice in the back of your mind asking “are they really interested in hearing this?”

Lastly, stay away from booze. If you want to get drunk, hang out watching a game with your buddies or something. If you want to go out and meet people, specifically girls, stay sober, it’ll help a lot.

Hope something in that rambling mess was helpful. I’m interested to hear what other people have to say about this as, like I said, I have the same problem and it sucks.

Good luck,
Jay

10

[quote]Hack Wilson wrote:
Staying away from alcohol is the best thing you can do. So keep with that. You sound a lot like I used to be. I turned to alcohol as a way to bring me ‘out of my shell’. And it did, often times to unfortunate affect.

Be yourself and don’t sweat it. You’ll meet the perfect person when you least expect it. The more you don’t let this thing trouble you and just live…the more confidence and stablility you will exude. In other words: Stop worrying about it.[/quote]

Yah–somewhere in your pro football playing, Metallica roadying, bombastic, loquacious posting, I saw a real shy introvert lurking.

11

[quote]sasquatch wrote:
Hack Wilson wrote:
Staying away from alcohol is the best thing you can do. So keep with that. You sound a lot like I used to be. I turned to alcohol as a way to bring me ‘out of my shell’. And it did, often times to unfortunate affect.

Be yourself and don’t sweat it. You’ll meet the perfect person when you least expect it. The more you don’t let this thing trouble you and just live…the more confidence and stablility you will exude. In other words: Stop worrying about it.

Yah–somewhere in your pro football playing, Metallica roadying, bombastic, loquacious posting, I saw a real shy introvert lurking. [/quote]

Yeah. Bear in mind that the Metallica roadie thing was a quote from ‘The Big Lewboski’.

I think that we are not all now what we were in our youth. Still and all…fuck off. I was trying to fucking help the guy.

12

Thanks for all the help and encouragement, guys, I really appreciate it. Not one flame yet, I’m shocked with that:). Anyway, as I said it’s a bit harder for people who haven’t dealt with this to understand how truly difficult all this can be. Anyway, I got some very informative PM’s and some of the posts on here certainly had some good thoughts and ideas. Again, I truly appreciate the help.

13

I guess i will go against the grain here. Social anxiety at the extreme is closely linked to depression. In my experience, which spans many years of struggle, i had to accept that my depression was the underlying cause and not a symptom. I do feel a good psychiatrist is a great idea. I also feel that depression meds are a god send, at least for me. Once my depression was controlled (i take Cymbalta daily for close to a year now) i became a toatlly different person, i am much more social and have made more friends in this last year than i made my entire life. I discovered that i was expressing my anti-social behaviors non-verbally which caused those around me to pull away. Like i said i know it goes against the common “suck it up bro” comments but i think i have a good idea of where you are mentally right now.

14

Most of the advice in this thread, while well meaning, does not provide any concrete, actionable steps that you can take to overcome your shyness.

So what can you do? It is true that you will have to go way outside your comfort zone. You have to be willing to do this, or you will never progress.

If you are near a large city, one of the best things you can do to is to sign up for an introductory Improv Comedy Class (think “whose line is it anyway”). By doing this, you will interact with and perform in front of a group of people you don’t know, but in a casual, fun and pressure free environment.

You mentioned that you don’t establish eye contact, which is something you’ll have to work on. Practice by walking down the street trying to make eye contact with women you pass by. Start out by listening to some comedy CDs (Dane Cook, Adam Sandler, Chris Rock, Carlos Mencia, etc.) on your IPOD as you do this. This will put you into a good mood as you walk around, and you’ll already be smiling when you make eye contact. When you do make eye contact, make sure to hold it until they look away first. This will be uncomfortable at first, but that feeling will go away over time.

Of course you will have to work on any issues or insecurities. Forget psychologists, look into NLP, EMDR, and EFT practicioners in your area. These technologies don’t focus on analyzing the issues that are fucking you up, but instead remove the negative emotions, feelings and negative self talk / self doubt that result from those issues.

15

Step 1: Set an appointment with a psychiatrist.

Step 2: Read as much as you can about Cognitive Psychology.

Step 3 (should’ve been step one but I wanted to emphasize the importance of seeing a cognitive psychiatrist): Talk to as many strangers as you can. Just be around people as often as you can. Whenever I’m afraid of something (which has only happened one time, haha), the more I do it, the less I fear.

I think some people are just naturally shy. Or maybe you just put too much pressure on yourself? Just relaxing and realizing that you’re still a good person no matter what happens seems to work. I’ve got a family member that deals with similar problems so I’m just going by what has seemed to work for her. Take it with a grain of salt, as usual with internet msg boards.

Also, try to stay away from meds if you can avoid it.

16

You humans are so weird! They never know anything. They don’t have enough years in their little lives to come to an understanding of anything at all. And yet they think they understand. From earliest childhood, they delude themselves into thinking they comprehend the world, while all that’s really going on is that they’ve got some primitive assumptions and prejudices.

As they get older they learn a more elevated vocabulary in which to express their mindless pseudo-knowledge and bully other people into accepting their prejudices as if they were truth, human being are all dolts. A collection of dolts but in all their scurrying around and pretending to be wise, throwing out idiotic half-understood theories about this and that, one or two of them will come up with some idea that is just a little bit closer to the truth than what was already known.

And in a sort of fumbling trial and error about half the time the truth actually rises to the top and becomes accepted by people who still don’t understand it, who simply adopt it as a new prejudice to be trusted blindly until the next dolt accidentally comes up with an improvement.

So what I’m saying is that no one is ever individually intelligent, and groups are even stupider than individuals and yet by keeping so many fools engaged in pretending to be intelligent, they still come up with some of the same results that an intelligent species would come up with.

Than again maybe intelligence isn’t all it’s cracked up to be, maybe I’m the fool. For thinking I know something, maybe humans are the only ones who can deal with the fact that nothing can ever be known at all.
-Xenci 21B

17

Alot of David DeAngelo’s dating advice applies well to general social situations. Check out his site:

Get on his emailing list and consider the cheap E-Books for a quick primer in how to overcome your shyness and social awkwarkness. I’m 45 and wish like hell I had that info back in my twenties.

18

I really feel for you. And I have, many times, been in your exact situation.

I think one key is: what are you afraid of? You can save a ton of money on therapy by answering that yourself.

I’m willing to bet you’re afraid that people will judge you and dislike you. But people don’t even have the chance to like you now. People probably already dislike you just because they think you’re not interesting, standing in the corner by yourself. Not everyone will like you, but some people will. You just have to find those people. Chances are, you will not like the kind of people that don’t like you. I’m serious.

(And by the way - you got into a frat. Many guys don’t. Message - people do like you.) You will be at your most mature when you realize that people like you when you don’t care how people feel about you. Not everyone will, but you will be happier being yourself and realizing that you can’t please everyone. Read Tucker Max.

And talk (alone) to the girlfriends of your friends. Tell them exactly what you told us. Girls know how to hook a guy up because girls are social creatures. They’ll either force you to meet people and make it easier for you, or at the very least find you a girlfriend.

I think joining a Toastmaster’s would help - not just for gaining confidence around others, but potentially for meeting people through the group. And the scene you’re describing - not the scene to make friends. Any time that much alcohol is being consumed, the atmosphere is merely about sex. The guys there are not interested in you any more than you serve to help them get a girl as a wingman/whatever.

Join groups you’re interested in. If you are anywhere near a city, you’ll find rockclimbing groups, book clubs, a rock band… whatever floats your boat. All you need in life is to find a couple of friends that you can hang out with every other week or so. It’s nice to have a whole group of 10 friends, sure, but that isn’t a common occurance. Most people have 3-5 key people they spend most of their time with, and girlfriends boost that number. BTW - you have two friends in the city, right? How many friends do they have?

So yeah, this might not all sink in right now, but as soon as you start taking action, you will have small victories which will add up, overtime, to more confidence. You’ll stop caring what people think and you’ll find that people like you more. If you want to, “practice” out of town or just at a random bar where you’ll probably never see the people again and it doesn’t matter what impression you make.

Good luck.

19

I used to hide. My one friend would have to trick me into going to parties with people. Now I do well enough with people, that new friends don’t believe the old stories they hear about me.

Public speaking class will help. It is full of people that don’t like to speak in public. So everybody will be supportive.

Have a couple of personal interaction routines/stories worked out. I’m not saying try to be a stand up comic. Don’t try to be the life of the party, but have a couple of interesting (and true) stories worked out. People always tend to have the same questions. Remember what works and use it.

I’m not saying to be funny. Funny is subjective and when you fail at being funny, you come off as lame. But failing at being interesting only makes you uninteresting. Not nearly as bad.

People love to talk about themselves. If you get stuck, ask them a question or bring it back to them. This sounds easy, and is.

Example. “What else happened when you took your trip to (place X)?” Chances are the person wants to tell another story, and was just hoping the topic would come back to them. But don’t say “Tell me more about yourself.” It not a good opening and puts to much pressure on the other person.

Just make sure you don’t rely on only one of those techniques too much. You have to mix it up, or you will only be the guy that ask questions, or tells stories. But a guy that tells stories, and asks questions are rare.

Read “How to Win Friends and Influence People”. Its lame, was written in the 30’s and really helps.

One last tips. Fake it, and eventually, it will get easier. Overtime you will notice you are not faking it anymore. You are not nervous, because you have a routine, game plan to follow. Eventually, you will not need to think about the routine and game plan and you will really be interacting with people.