i like both— i think the combination improves the “regular” squat both from technique and getting lower.
[quote]FightingScott wrote:
<<< I’m not going to get into the argument about Smith Machines verses Barbells. Here’s why I don’t use them
- I find them awkward and uncomfortable.
- I want to be good at the Back Squat[/quote]
Your reasons for you not doing them are unassailable and there is no argument as far as I’m concerned as I have said.
This is just incorrect assuming proper foot placement. I actually prefer the angled version and can go heels to glutes with no problem. I’m not slamming you, but I know better.
[quote]FightingScott wrote:
I’ve seen Jay Cutler and Mark Dugdale do Smith Machine Squats with good form and get good results. These are the only times I’ve ever seen good squatting in a Smith Machine.
The Smith Machines they were using also had a straight bar path.
I’m not going to get into the argument about Smith Machines verses Barbells. Here’s why I don’t use them
- I find them awkward and uncomfortable.
- I want to be good at the Back Squat
But what I will say is that angled-path Smith Machines are an awful idea. If you do a squat correctly, the bar moves straight. It’s damn near impossible to break parallel in angled-path Smith Machines without assuming some very unnatural positions.
But seriously, even if Smith Machine Squats are the best squat in the world, does this gym that only has a Smith Machine really have the right equipment for serious training? Does it have a 45’ Back Raise? Do the Dumbbells go past 50lbs? Does the music suck? Is it conducive at all to serious training?[/quote]
In terms of equipment yes I’ve got everything I need. In terms of environment, no its not conducive to serious training. Alot of young punks come in there and jerk around so Im constantly getting funny looks because I do hardcore exercizes and have heard a few bodybuilder mimics, from some of the punks. Its all good though im not gonna let that stop me.
Wait, you dont mean they think YOU are a bodybuilder right? That MUST be a shitty gym.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
FightingScott wrote:
<<< I’m not going to get into the argument about Smith Machines verses Barbells. Here’s why I don’t use them
- I find them awkward and uncomfortable.
- I want to be good at the Back Squat
Your reasons for you not doing them are unassailable and there is no argument as far as I’m concerned as I have said.
But what I will say is that angled-path Smith Machines are an awful idea. If you do a squat correctly, the bar moves straight. It’s damn near impossible to break parallel in angled-path Smith Machines without assuming some very unnatural positions. >>>
This is just incorrect assuming proper foot placement. I actually prefer the angled version and can go heels to glutes with no problem. I’m not slamming you, but I know better.[/quote]
I find using the angle front to back works best and is short of like a hack squat even with feet under ass. I also find that it is useful because if you are glute dominant, it allows you to work your quads with less forward lean and the resulting glute involvement.
So smith squats are no different than leg presses or any other machine exercise that increases stability in some manner. This always allows for more prime mover activation, but less stabilizer muscle activation.
[quote]Lorisco wrote:
<<< I find using the angle front to back works best >>>[/quote]
I think you mean with the angle leaning away from your back in which case I agree. I have a piece of thin carpet under my machine and have meticulously measured and taped markings on the carpet for precise foot placement.
I taped measured markings on the bar and then used a plumb line to mark the carpet. This helps me make sure each foot is the same distance from the center and also how far in front of the bar to start.
I place my feet slightly in front so I’m leaning back into the bar a bit. At the bottom I wind up in a perfect position to power it back up with my heels. My back is also nice n straight and never leans too far forward. No problem with the knees at all.
[quote]GetSwole wrote:
Wait, you dont mean they think YOU are a bodybuilder right? That MUST be a shitty gym.[/quote]
Why do 90% of responses to my comments begin in “Wait…” I hope I aint rushing yall or something god-damn
Try doing front squats on the smith. That’s what I’m doing, since there’s no room to do free weight front squats at my gym (by cleaning the weight off the floor).
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
This is just incorrect assuming proper foot placement. I actually prefer the angled version and can go heels to glutes with no problem. I’m not slamming you, but I know better.[/quote]
Can you describe the anatomically sound foot placement for Angled-Path Smith-Machine Squats?
Do your Hips end up moving in a straight path that is parallel to the path of the Angled-Path Smith-Machine?
[quote]FightingScott wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
This is just incorrect assuming proper foot placement. I actually prefer the angled version and can go heels to glutes with no problem. I’m not slamming you, but I know better.
Can you describe the anatomically sound foot placement for Angled-Path Smith-Machine Squats?
Do your Hips end up moving in a straight path that is parallel to the path of the Angled-Path Smith-Machine?
[/quote]
I described above as best I can in words how I do this. It amounts to nothing more than beginning with the feet slightly in front of the bar to account for the angle.
I haven’t critically examined all the biomechanics of the movement. All I know is it feels good with very hard sets and no hint of discomfort or unnatural force anywhere. BTW, I do know what proper form is and would not compromise it on something like squats.
Also, I’m not calling for the world to flock to angled Smith squats and abandon fee squats. My only point is that it’s useful and can be VERY useful. I just don’t want to see guys dismiss out of hand ANY potential tool in their arsenal for no other reason than it’s not cool enough. You gave 2 very good reasons why YOU don’t do them and I make no attempt to convince you otherwise although I don’t see using the Smith as an automatic barrier to improving your free squat.
Again, the thing that gets me is people just SAY [quote]“the Smith machine makes a good coat rack”[/quote] with no other basis than they read somebody else say that. Some of those somebody else,s are people I respect overall, but nobody can be right about everything =]
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
<<< I find using the angle front to back works best >>>
I think you mean with the angle leaning away from your back in which case I agree. I have a piece of thin carpet under my machine and have meticulously measured and taped markings on the carpet for precise foot placement.
I taped measured markings on the bar and then used a plumb line to mark the carpet. This helps me make sure each foot is the same distance from the center and also how far in front of the bar to start.
I place my feet slightly in front so I’m leaning back into the bar a bit. At the bottom I wind up in a perfect position to power it back up with my heels. My back is also nice n straight and never leans too far forward. No problem with the knees at all.[/quote]
Yes, that is what I meant; facing forward the angle goes across your vertical plan front to back.
I’m not sure why people bash the smith and then go do leg presses. It’s a machine people! Just like any other machine; hack squat, leg press, etc. They all help you focus on the prime movers more by removing the limitations of the stabilizer muscles. This is good for bodybuilding and maybe not so good for sport applications. However, most pro football teams use machine based strength training programs. So it can’t be that bad in terms of the stability issue.
Anyway, you are correct, smiths can and are a very useful tool.
The only reason i like the smith is it allows you to go deeper. If you are using the smith just simply to workout, this is not the reason. The reason is to gain technique especially when it applys to the lower squat positon; which many squatters; free wieght or smith, do not do as they want to go heavier; and; therefore, seem more powerful; but also means they cant go low as they get stuck. For either smith or free wieght, the lowest position must achieved; which goes below parrell…the smith helps in this if this is the objective; if the objective is just mere wieght i can lift and not how low i can get… then it does not matter what lift you are doing…
A gym is no place for an adolescent attitude. That is the EXACT REASON more people do not attend gyms. Do not bring that silliness here.
Scanning through the threads I see the adolescent remarks from GetSwole far outweigh the few intelligent contributions made.
From what I have read you have the ability to provide worthwhile advice, yet you consecutively provide only a smart one liner⿦ are you trying to up your post count?
McDumbass, you and I both know this is only a response to a comment I made in another thread about you. Also, if you didn’t just show up here you would know that I am far more intelligent and experienced than you would expect. And it is my guess that most people who read posts from both me and you would realize I’m probably a better source of information. Don’t try to act righteous just because you got burned by my humor in another thread.
I’m am hardly the reason people dont attend gyms. Last I heard, this was a website not a gym. I can just bet my gym time is something you would have trouble keeping up with, or who knows…no doubt your super intense.
As for the post count…hmmm…I hadn’t really considered it, but I’ll a PM a hooray when I gross a thousand.
Your an idiot.
And you didn’t scan through shit of threads. I make ‘intelligent’ which I think you are substituting for the word “serious” inappropriately, on a regular basis, but obviously you didn’t read the real threads that have real discussions. The one liners are most limited to the troll posts on rate my physique and to other morons like yourself.
You know this is a personal attack. Don’t try to disguise it. If it’s not why don’t you tell 1morerep how adolescent and childish he is because he likes to make cracks in the rate my physique forum too. Oh wait, because you have not even come close to putting in the time nor have gotten near the level of results as either him or I.
Don’t try to put me down just cuz of my age. You’ll learn real quickly that its not a factor. I’d bet I have more time under the bar than you, and I’d bet I have a larger research background than you. So keep your petty “you’re a know-nothing adolescent” remarks to yourself.
To conclude in an ‘adolescent’ way. Your a dumbass. Why don’t you go back to your program and respond when you have progress.
[quote]GetSwole wrote:
McDumbass, you and I both know this is only a response to a comment I made in another thread about you. Also, if you didn’t just show up here you would know that I am far more intelligent and experienced than you would expect. And it is my guess that most people who read posts from both me and you would realize I’m probably a better source of information. Don’t try to act righteous just because you got burned by my humor in another thread.
I’m am hardly the reason people dont attend gyms. Last I heard, this was a website not a gym. I can just bet my gym time is something you would have trouble keeping up with, or who knows…no doubt your super intense.
As for the post count…hmmm…I hadn’t really considered it, but I’ll a PM a hooray when I gross a thousand.
Your an idiot.
And you didn’t scan through shit of threads. I make ‘intelligent’ which I think you are substituting for the word “serious” inappropriately, on a regular basis, but obviously you didn’t read the real threads that have real discussions. The one liners are most limited to the troll posts on rate my physique and to other morons like yourself.
You know this is a personal attack. Don’t try to disguise it. If it’s not why don’t you tell 1morerep how adolescent and childish he is because he likes to make cracks in the rate my physique forum too. Oh wait, because you have not even come close to putting in the time nor have gotten near the level of results as either him or I.
Don’t try to put me down just cuz of my age. You’ll learn real quickly that its not a factor. I’d bet I have more time under the bar than you, and I’d bet I have a larger research background than you. So keep your petty “you’re a know-nothing adolescent” remarks to yourself.
To conclude in an ‘adolescent’ way. Your a dumbass. Why don’t you go back to your program and respond when you have progress.
[/quote]
First and foremost, having been the victim of age discrimination, I would never judge someone based on age.
Next, let us review some language extracted from your response:
A. McDumbass
B. Your an idiot
C. other morons
D. Your a dumbass
If I felt as though I was being attacked because of my age I would not post A-D or anything comparable to these childish remarks.
Lastly, thank you for following up. My program is going great!
Leg day was on the 14th and I did 3.5 minutes the first set on the squat rack and 4 min the second set on the squat rack using 135, went straight to deadlifts using the same time and weight. Finally I finished up with a cool down of two sets of ten on the leg press machine followed by a 1.5 kilometer jog back to my C.H.U. (containerized housing unit)
Yesterday I just did the abdominal exercise I listed on my routine
Today I am going to do arms.
Here is a link, Abs are done daily though it is just listed on my off days.
http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1932031&pageNo=0#1946679
[quote]GetSwole wrote:
To conclude in an ‘adolescent’ way. Your a dumbass. Why don’t you go back to your program and respond when you have progress.
[/quote]
A. Read the above quote and you’ll realize that my language is largely for sarcasm and I recognized your view of it as adolescent.
B. I call you an idiot because you come in trying to make me look some unintelligent fool solely because I have a smart-Alec personality.
C. Again I say, please feel free to “review” more posts or even talk to some of the guys on my friends list and you will realize that I by far have more to contribute to this forum as far as experience (which compared to alot of guys on here still isnt very much…but apparently more than you nonetheless) and intelligence, and progress than you do.
D. Again, look around, I give solid or serious advice on a regular basis.
E. You tried to equate me to someone who isn’t serious about training or or the lifestyle by saying I am the reason people don’t go to gym’s. That was a stupid comment at best. Review my log, or again look around, and you’ll see I’m really quite serious, extremely motivated, hardworking, and I make continual progress.
F. I didn’t ask for a review of you training day. I have looked at your thread and your “gains” appear to be nothing more than more intense flexing, and a typical results from a beginner who decided to stick with some sort of program and add in some good nutrition. However, you pitch your progress as if you are some genius who discovered the holy grail of bodybuilding when really all you did was clusterfuck some professional’s routine.
Your gains are not remarkable or surprising. If anything they are RIDICULOUSLY typical of any newbie who started training and eating properly even semi-consistently.
You tried to insult my intelligence by playing the self-righteous “I’m super serious” type of personality and proceeded to make false, and moronic statements that ultimately have done nothing but make you look petty and ill-informed.
Also, I could care less if you judge me by my sarcastic language and subsequently by my age. I’m sure most people that I’ve had serious conversations with on this forum would vouch that I’m light years ahead of my age with respect to my dedication, level of commitment, and view on this sport. Either way, it matter’s not to me because time under the bar and progress/experience are what make the difference in this sport.
I have had some good leg workouts on smith machine squats, but I have always mimicked a regular squat. Most trainers put their feet farther out in front where I always lined up my middle foot right under the bar (as if trying to balance on a reg squat).
Another option you have is raising your heels high (such as on a 25 lb plate). This makes even 135 seem fairly heavy and you could clean that off the floor as others have already suggested, and step back onto the plates.
[quote]mc_neumann wrote:
Here is a link, Abs are done daily though it is just listed on my off days.
http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1932031&pageNo=0#1946679 [/quote]
How did you come up with the clever, highly original name for this program?