Pal, You are at level 5 in supplements and clearly have been training a while. He’s a beginner, it’s ok to speak in generalities. Obviously there is no one size fits all, but my point is that most beginners should be eating a lot, and if he were, I doubt he would be as tired. And besides, yes I do think most guys should see what 200lbs feels like if they are over 5 foot 8 and then cut it back down if they feel so inclined.
I do eat a lot haha I had half a gallon of milk the night before just to make sure I had lots of calories. height and weight are 6’2" and 210 lbs.
Right now I’m doing 5 3 1 so its pretty heavy all the time. My last set prior to jokers was 315x8, if you were wondering about my strength levels. still pretty new to lifting so I appreciate all the help you guys give.
And i don’t sprint due to a busy schedule. once summer starts i will be doing lots of conditioning.
[quote]T-man21 wrote:
Pal, You are at level 5 in supplements and clearly have been training a while. He’s a beginner, it’s ok to speak in generalities. Obviously there is no one size fits all, but my point is that most beginners should be eating a lot, and if he were, I doubt he would be as tired. And besides, yes I do think most guys should see what 200lbs feels like if they are over 5 foot 8 and then cut it back down if they feel so inclined.[/quote]
I’m 5’10 and weighed 190 at my heaviest, so I think we’ll have to agree to disagree. I personally don’t believe in pushing bodyweight up simply for the sake of seeing a bigger number on the scale.
[quote]Jathan.young wrote:
I do eat a lot haha I had half a gallon of milk the night before just to make sure I had lots of calories. height and weight are 6’2" and 210 lbs.
Right now I’m doing 5 3 1 so its pretty heavy all the time. My last set prior to jokers was 315x8, if you were wondering about my strength levels. still pretty new to lifting so I appreciate all the help you guys give.
And i don’t sprint due to a busy schedule. once summer starts i will be doing lots of conditioning. [/quote]
your problem is definitely a poor diet or insufficient calorie amount.
i’m 6’2 200, and i have to think about eating 24/7 or else things aren’t perfect for me.
Even if you eat A FUCK TON, you need to consider it in relative terms. 3.5k calories might be a lot for a 120lb female, but 3.5 calories are maintanence for you and me.
Eat smarter and better because cheese and crackers, agreeing with Flip’s sentiment, is absolutely ridiculous for someone who is trying to build powerful, strong and enduring muscles.
You are in the 10% of population given your height, stop fueling your body like you are 5’5.
[quote]T-man21 wrote:
If you are on this site, you had best be eating over 3000 calories a day, unless you are dieting for a competition. This is usually the culprit for low energy at the end of the day. If you are under 200lbs at least 3600 calories a day until you are 200lbs of man.
[/quote]
No.
There are too many variables to throw out a blanket statement like “eat over 3000 calories a day”. Guess what, I’m 6 ft 3, 209 lbs and I eat around 3000 a day to gain. If I did sprints, I’m sure I would need more. You really think someone (and this doesn’t apply to the OP because I see he posted he’s roughly my height and weight) who’s like 5 ft 8, 170 pounds is FOR SURE going to need 3600+ calories? Seriously? And that once they hit 200 lbs they should drop the calories to 3000? What’s the logic there? The only thing we can really say for sure is that if someone isn’t gaining weight they need to increase calories, but to give a blanket set point is absurd.
It depends on activity level and genetics. You sprint, and lift, so maybe you found that you need at least 3000 or whatever for your activity. That’s great, good for you. There are people who need over 3600 to gain, and there are plenty (myself included) who barely need 3000. But just because someone’s under 200 lbs they need at least 3600 until they’re 200 lbs? I’m sorry, but there’s no way to say that with any certainty.
[quote]Claudan wrote:
[quote]Jathan.young wrote:
I do eat a lot haha I had half a gallon of milk the night before just to make sure I had lots of calories. height and weight are 6’2" and 210 lbs.
Right now I’m doing 5 3 1 so its pretty heavy all the time. My last set prior to jokers was 315x8, if you were wondering about my strength levels. still pretty new to lifting so I appreciate all the help you guys give.
And i don’t sprint due to a busy schedule. once summer starts i will be doing lots of conditioning. [/quote]
Even if you eat A FUCK TON, you need to consider it in relative terms. 3.5k calories might be a lot for a 120lb female, but 3.5 calories are maintanence for you and me.
[/quote]
Again, there is no way for you to say with any accuracy that his maintenance is 3500 calories, unless he is in fact eating 3500 calories right now and his weight is the same. There is too much discrepancy with genetics and activity levels between people to make this statement. I gain on 3000, and I’m the same height and weight as you two.
[quote]staystrong wrote:
[quote]T-man21 wrote:
If you are on this site, you had best be eating over 3000 calories a day, unless you are dieting for a competition. This is usually the culprit for low energy at the end of the day. If you are under 200lbs at least 3600 calories a day until you are 200lbs of man.
[/quote]
No.
There are too many variables to throw out a blanket statement like “eat over 3000 calories a day”. Guess what, I’m 6 ft 3, 209 lbs and I eat around 3000 a day to gain. If I did sprints, I’m sure I would need more. You really think someone (and this doesn’t apply to the OP because I see he posted he’s roughly my height and weight) who’s like 5 ft 8, 170 pounds is FOR SURE going to need 3600+ calories? Seriously? And that once they hit 200 lbs they should drop the calories to 3000? What’s the logic there? The only thing we can really say for sure is that if someone isn’t gaining weight they need to increase calories, but to give a blanket set point is absurd.
It depends on activity level and genetics. You sprint, and lift, so maybe you found that you need at least 3000 or whatever for your activity. That’s great, good for you. There are people who need over 3600 to gain, and there are plenty (myself included) who barely need 3000. But just because someone’s under 200 lbs they need at least 3600 until they’re 200 lbs? I’m sorry, but there’s no way to say that with any certainty.[/quote]
Exactly. Hell, I’m not short at 5’10, and 3600 would be way too much for me. Would it get me to that arbitrary 200# number fairly quickly? Probably. Would I end up sluggish and fat, without significantly adding muscle? Definitely. I weighed 190 late last fall, and earlier this year cut down to as low as 170 (175ish now). All my lifts are either as good as, or better than, they were when I was 20 lbs heavier. I’m currently eating around 2500 calories per day, and gaining. And I also engage in athletic activity (sprinting, crossfit).
[quote]staystrong wrote:
[quote]Claudan wrote:
[quote]Jathan.young wrote:
I do eat a lot haha I had half a gallon of milk the night before just to make sure I had lots of calories. height and weight are 6’2" and 210 lbs.
Right now I’m doing 5 3 1 so its pretty heavy all the time. My last set prior to jokers was 315x8, if you were wondering about my strength levels. still pretty new to lifting so I appreciate all the help you guys give.
And i don’t sprint due to a busy schedule. once summer starts i will be doing lots of conditioning. [/quote]
Even if you eat A FUCK TON, you need to consider it in relative terms. 3.5k calories might be a lot for a 120lb female, but 3.5 calories are maintanence for you and me.
[/quote]
Again, there is no way for you to say with any accuracy that his maintenance is 3500 calories, unless he is in fact eating 3500 calories right now and his weight is the same. There is too much discrepancy with genetics and activity levels between people to make this statement. I gain on 3000, and I’m the same height and weight as you two.[/quote]
You gain on 3k, that is a minimum for a person your height.
Would you rather have the guy under-eat or over-eat? Because he is clearly stating symptoms of under-eating, wouldnt you agree?
Does this guy even measure his macros? NO.
There is a context, and in the context of this thread, it is perfectly fine(imo) to say that this kid needs to eat above 3000 or above 3400 to gain weight, ESPECIALLY since he has no fucking clue what 3400 looks like, or what his own calorie intake ACTUAL is.
Obviously, it is irresponsible to throw out generic numbers, i agree whole-heartedly. Is it irresponsible to suggest such ideas for this kid? I don’t think so.
Getting (a little?) fat isn’t the end of the world. It’s easy to burn fat, and besides, it’s a great learning experience.
[quote]Claudan wrote:
[quote]staystrong wrote:
[quote]Claudan wrote:
[quote]Jathan.young wrote:
I do eat a lot haha I had half a gallon of milk the night before just to make sure I had lots of calories. height and weight are 6’2" and 210 lbs.
Right now I’m doing 5 3 1 so its pretty heavy all the time. My last set prior to jokers was 315x8, if you were wondering about my strength levels. still pretty new to lifting so I appreciate all the help you guys give.
And i don’t sprint due to a busy schedule. once summer starts i will be doing lots of conditioning. [/quote]
Even if you eat A FUCK TON, you need to consider it in relative terms. 3.5k calories might be a lot for a 120lb female, but 3.5 calories are maintanence for you and me.
[/quote]
Again, there is no way for you to say with any accuracy that his maintenance is 3500 calories, unless he is in fact eating 3500 calories right now and his weight is the same. There is too much discrepancy with genetics and activity levels between people to make this statement. I gain on 3000, and I’m the same height and weight as you two.[/quote]
You gain on 3k, that is a minimum for a person your height.
Would you rather have the guy under-eat or over-eat? Because he is clearly stating symptoms of under-eating, wouldnt you agree?
Does this guy even measure his macros? NO.
There is a context, and in the context of this thread, it is perfectly fine(imo) to say that this kid needs to eat above 3000 or above 3400 to gain weight, ESPECIALLY since he has no fucking clue what 3400 looks like, or what his own calorie intake ACTUAL is.
Obviously, it is irresponsible to throw out generic numbers, i agree whole-heartedly. Is it irresponsible to suggest such ideas for this kid? I don’t think so. [/quote]
I agree I’m likely on the lower end of the scale for how much food I need to gain. That doesn’t mean he needs 3500 though. Hell, he may be eating 4000 already, we don’t know. He might also be only eating 2500. The real question is “is his weight going up?”. OP hasn’t mentioned that his weight is stalled or that he’s losing or gaining, just that he’s tired.
I don’t think he is displaying clear signs of under-eating. He says strength gains are great, just that he gets tired at the end of his sessions. Well, we don’t know 1. How much his weight has increased, decreased, or stayed the same these past few weeks. 2. What his workout plan is. 3. How much sleep he gets. 4. What his nutrition is. It’s possible he’s only eating cheese, crackers, and milk all day every day (but damn I hope not). 5. What time of the day he works out at
And if he has no concept of what 3400 calories is, then telling him to eat that many would do what exactly? He has no idea how much that is, so he can’t possibly know how much to eat and is just completely guessing. He could guess much lower, or much higher.
The most sensible plan is to figure out how much he is eating now, figure out if the scale is moving in the direction he wants it to, and adjust accordingly. That will possibly be 3500, maybe even likely. Hell, even if he’s too lazy to figure out how much he’s eating now he can still do the other steps: watch the scale, increase or decrease the amount of food accordingly. This would work even if you had no idea how many calories you are eating.
I agree with your goals though of making sure the guy eats enough to fuel himself. We both know how many people come through here and have no idea that they need food lol. So I definitely understand the mindset you have and where you’re logic is.
Just as an anecdote, when I was 135, eating a “recommended” 2000-2500 calories a day caused me to lose weight.
I wasn’t able to get my weight to move upwards until I hit around 3400 calories a day. Other than a couple hours in the gym a week, my lifestyle was very sedentary. On the couch on a computer at home, at a desk on a computer at work.
There’s a VERY wide range of caloric requirements. Watching the relation between average weekly calorie intake and the trends of the scale is the only reliable way to do things, imho.
Everything you mentioned in your post is accurate and true. Obviously, you know what you are talking about. At some point though, we need to give this guy our best speculations, and confusing him with the difference of 3000vs3400, when his PWO meal consists of crackers and cheese…?
[quote]staystrong wrote:
And if he has no concept of what 3400 calories is, then telling him to eat that many would do what exactly? He has no idea how much that is, so he can’t possibly know how much to eat and is just completely guessing. He could guess much lower, or much higher.
[/quote]
Yeah, but if you say a number that is higher, he is more likely to under-eat and land at maintenance, rather than giving him a low number, where he will under-eat and remain in a deficit.
So, that’s, exactly, what it would do.
I hope he reads your post staystrong because you are right,
"The most sensible plan is to figure out how much he is eating now, figure out if the scale is moving in the direction he wants it to, and adjust accordingly. That will possibly be 3500, maybe even likely. Hell, even if he’s too lazy to figure out how much he’s eating now he can still do the other steps: watch the scale, increase or decrease the amount of food accordingly. This would work even if you had no idea how many calories you are eating. "
[quote]Claudan wrote:
eat no or less carbs 2 hours prior to working out and make sure you eat carbs the rest of the time
that means, no milk, no cheese, no crackers.
I usually put a scoop of whey into glass of water 30 mins before working out, that’s it. [/quote]
Sorry dude, but cheese is actually mostly fats and protein
OP, try drinking 3-4 liters of water a day, and A LOT periworkout (around your workout, that is, before, during and after)
[quote]GetBigs wrote:
[quote]Claudan wrote:
eat no or less carbs 2 hours prior to working out and make sure you eat carbs the rest of the time
that means, no milk, no cheese, no crackers.
I usually put a scoop of whey into glass of water 30 mins before working out, that’s it. [/quote]
Sorry dude, but cheese is actually mostly fats and protein
OP, try drinking 3-4 liters of water a day, and A LOT periworkout (around your workout, that is, before, during and after)[/quote]
cheese = dairy = not a good idea PWO.
[quote]Claudan wrote:
[quote]GetBigs wrote:
[quote]Claudan wrote:
eat no or less carbs 2 hours prior to working out and make sure you eat carbs the rest of the time
that means, no milk, no cheese, no crackers.
I usually put a scoop of whey into glass of water 30 mins before working out, that’s it. [/quote]
Sorry dude, but cheese is actually mostly fats and protein
OP, try drinking 3-4 liters of water a day, and A LOT periworkout (around your workout, that is, before, during and after)[/quote]
cheese = dairy = not a good idea PWO.
[/quote]
I understand bro and yes I know, I was just saying that cheese is mostly fats and protein, but I agree with dairy not being good as a pre workout meal.
I have gained five pounds in the last 6 weeks. I don’t know why you guys assume I don’t eat a lot. I usually have about 5,000 calories. A couple weeks ago I had a meat lovers pizza in preparation for dead lifting, so I think I have eating down. Sleep is good, but lots of stress between work and school.
Also, gonna try oats and whey 30 minutes before squatting.
Again, appreciate the help
Take a Spike. I personally found Surge Workout Fuel made me sleepy.
Also try just doing the minimum reps and dropping jokers for a week or two.
Slept like shit so I’m gonna wait to squat till Friday.
Badger- definitely gonna try and have coffee prior. Spike has a little too much caffeine. I get jittery pretty easily