Simpler Question About Oestrogen

Pharma TRT
1

I made a big old post. Too much info maybe…

In the UK my Oestrogen was measured at 237 (147 upper limit)
My Test was measured 8.8 in a 9-30 range.

Does Oestrogen lower the amount of test you show in your bloods?

My meds were over this stage a Gel 50mg daily (no AI). It was very effective at first and then became less effective I retained some fluids and felt terrible, low libido etc.

Then they changed my meds to a sustained release injection 250mg over 4 / 5 weeks…still with no AI, as they said they hadn’t yet measured it :frowning: … Day two, 3 were good. Then again still some fluid retention … low libido. My second endo was swayed into prescribing 1mg Anastrozole daily which I thought was too much. I’ve taken two days at 1mg and still low libido, with some strange spontaneous arousals. But …I am really worried about this does level.

How much should I really be taking with a 250mg 5 week injection?

Does my high Oestrogen level mean my body has eaten up the dose too quickly so now I have nothing?

2

Aromatase converts T into estradiol, and very efficiently if you use creams, and probably enough to turn you into a female elephant if you take 50mg T/day.

Unless you are a female cancer patient, or an elephant, or taking 50mg T a day, 1mg/day Anastrozole is nuts.

1x 250mg Cyp for 5 weeks is nuts again.

Read the stickies, and get a real doctor.

3

There are no real TRT doctors in the UK. The NHS has killed of real healthcare in this country years ago. If you aren’t “run of the mill” you are screwed.

I am lucky to get the AI … hardly anyone gets it. And so many people use Gels and have problems with them because of E2 I guess.

250mg Cyp for 5 weeks is obviously too low and 1mg a day of Anastrozole is too high…

God I can’t wait to be on the new Gel, its much better than the old one as it can be rubbed in.

How much AI should I take for a 50mg a day Gel dose?

4

The wiki for Anastrozole says that 1mg daily gives a 50% reduction in male E2 …
I guess people are saying it much “better” than that in real effect?

5

[quote]CaptainProblemo wrote:
There are no real TRT doctors in the UK. The NHS has killed of real healthcare in this country years ago. If you aren’t “run of the mill” you are screwed.

I am lucky to get the AI … hardly anyone gets it. And so many people use Gels and have problems with them because of E2 I guess.

250mg Cyp for 5 weeks is obviously too low and 1mg a day of Anastrozole is too high…

God I can’t wait to be on the new Gel, its much better than the old one as it can be rubbed in.

How much AI should I take for a 50mg a day Gel dose? [/quote]

Everyone is different and there is no set formula. Take your cream after 5 or so weeks get your levels checked. If you need an AI start taking it then retest again after a few weeks and check values. If your e2 is still too high raise dosage, if too low back off a little.

6

so so so so much wrong here

Your T dosing sechduel and amount is retarded–you seem to already know this. 100 mg/week with twice weekly injections is the starting point.

Your AI dosing is retarded–you already know this. 1 mg per week with EOD ingestion is the starting point.

Many people do not absorb gels–you appear to be one of these people if your posted bloodwork was done on gels. I’m not sure if switching to a new gel will work or not–I guess you could try it but I personally wouldn’t.

7

Socialism is an easy way get stuff for free, and make the people you don’t like pay for it.

But it looks like you ARE paying for it, only in a different way. You are out of balance, and using chemicals that you plainly do not understand. So pay a real professional to find what’s wrong, and what to do about it.

Or not. The protocol here in the stickies will probably work for you better than your “free medical care” has.

8

[quote]dooright wrote:
Socialism is an easy way get stuff for free, and make the people you don’t like pay for it.

But it looks like you ARE paying for it, only in a different way. You are out of balance, and using chemicals that you plainly do not understand. So pay a real professional to find what’s wrong, and what to do about it.

Or not. The protocol here in the stickies will probably work for you better than your “free medical care” has.

[/quote]

That’s the problem. There is no “free” TRT, I had to pay specialist’s. However they are Endo’s they are not TRT specialists. They are there to treat women with Thyroid issues. Not men who have these problems. There is a NHS clinic, but you have to wait 4 weeks minimum, and a lot of people give up with it. And end up drunk and pointlessly on Viagra.

Hardly anybody in the UK gets an AI …

I would say I am the lucky one, but day two it was nearly right with the return of my penile reactivity morning erection etc…, having signs of constipation well not signs…I am … And Day Three, I have very little libido … Can it work at reducing Estrogen that fast?

The Gel did work for me, at first I rubbed it in. I was told not to. It stopped working after a week of me leaving a “thin film” of it.
However, the new Gel, that I have to wait a week for is different, its a Gel you rub into the skin you don’t leave anything on your skin.

Sustanon is a combination of ethers. But to me it was an obvious no brainer that 250mg would never last 4-6 weeks. With people already saying it’s only good for two, and that’s if you DON’T start with high E2.

The problem is I cannot “defy” my doctor, otherwise he will not prescribe and I will have no medication at all. I just have to lie, and hope my E2 doesn’t come back as high as it did last time with that Gel.

I know there are stickies, but … I am desperate I need guidance. I cannot just take a dose of drugs I have no access to. I also cannot “just ask” for medication, although that worked with the AI … it won’t with the Testosterone.

And lastly, I campaign tirelessly AGAINST the effects of socialism in this country. At first, it gave the poor a chance to get some health care. Now … everyone just gets second or third rate healthcare and the left fool everyone into thinking its the envy of the world.

9

[quote]CaptainProblemo wrote:

[quote]dooright wrote:
Socialism is an easy way get stuff for free, and make the people you don’t like pay for it.

But it looks like you ARE paying for it, only in a different way. You are out of balance, and using chemicals that you plainly do not understand. So pay a real professional to find what’s wrong, and what to do about it.

Or not. The protocol here in the stickies will probably work for you better than your “free medical care” has.

[/quote]

That’s the problem. There is no “free” TRT, I had to pay specialist’s. However they are Endo’s they are not TRT specialists. They are there to treat women with Thyroid issues. Not men who have these problems. There is a NHS clinic, but you have to wait 4 weeks minimum, and a lot of people give up with it. And end up drunk and pointlessly on Viagra.

Hardly anybody in the UK gets an AI …

I would say I am the lucky one, but day two it was nearly right with the return of my penile reactivity morning erection etc…, having signs of constipation well not signs…I am … And Day Three, I have very little libido … Can it work at reducing Estrogen that fast?

The Gel did work for me, at first I rubbed it in. I was told not to. It stopped working after a week of me leaving a “thin film” of it.
However, the new Gel, that I have to wait a week for is different, its a Gel you rub into the skin you don’t leave anything on your skin.

Sustanon is a combination of ethers. But to me it was an obvious no brainer that 250mg would never last 4-6 weeks. With people already saying it’s only good for two, and that’s if you DON’T start with high E2.

The problem is I cannot “defy” my doctor, otherwise he will not prescribe and I will have no medication at all. I just have to lie, and hope my E2 doesn’t come back as high as it did last time with that Gel.

I know there are stickies, but … I am desperate I need guidance. I cannot just take a dose of drugs I have no access to. I also cannot “just ask” for medication, although that worked with the AI … it won’t with the Testosterone.

And lastly, I campaign tirelessly AGAINST the effects of socialism in this country. At first, it gave the poor a chance to get some health care. Now … everyone just gets second or third rate healthcare and the left fool everyone into thinking its the envy of the world.

[/quote]

The stickies are there for guidance. Have a read and then what you are unsure about ask. If you take the time to read them you will have a good idea on how to proceed. It also looks a lot better if you show some effort and makes people want to offer you help if they see you are trying to.

In the UK you should be able to source everything you need if you want to go self treatment way that is if all the doctors fail you.

You obviously have had blood work done and conclusion was to have trt. So if that is the case why not follow the protocol from the stickies and adjust as necessary. The protocol will get you up and running in the right direction.

Go with injections instead of creams and have an AI on hand. Also don’t go for sustanol, get test e much better for a trt protocol unless you like jabbing eod.

10

Yeah the Sustanon was rubbish. At first it worked when it peaked … but it was fighting against the E2 put up by the Testogel when I doubled it up … I WISH I hadn’t done that … but it was already causing E2 problems from the first week …

My question … does E2 drive down the Test visible in your bloods? Like if you had an E2 problem an were aromatasing too quickly … if you left it overnight … had a test and your E2 was high and your test low … would aromatising explain that away?

What happened with the Gel was that it peaked everyday then waned quickly … some days worse than others…if I double dosed it happened more quickly …

11

Sounds SNAFU all around. What do you do?

First, define the problem. Are you 26 or 62? Primary? Everything else ok?

If HRT is the answer–and it might not be–then the T Nation protocol is probably the most sane way to go. Government won’t allow it? Then screw the government and get your drugs illegally.

Yes. E2 is at the expense of T. That’s what it’s made from. At least that’s my understanding of Wikipedia. How the body regulates the balance is an important question. I’m having aromatization issues myself, and am using T nation amounts of research anastrozole plus DIM trying for stability.

The gels are usually straight T, which has a half life of about one hour. Look at the metabolism section of AndroGel® (testosterone gel) 1% to get a idea of what is going on.

I wrote a couple of more paragraphs, but they just made things more complicated. If you do use gels, my opinion is that you should use as little as possible. Any extra goes right to E2.

12

Yes everything else is OK. Good BP, no diabetes, weight only a little high…cardio fitness good. Otherwise I wouldn’t have been prescribed the TRT.

I have access to medication through my endocrinologist, and the Gels did at first work fine, thinks really started to improve … I have my notes. The recovery was sketchy but marked.

When I used more, things seem to get worse. At first it made a difference. But I had no way of balancing anything. Thinking more was better, I started to feel flushed and messed up, the more I double dosed. So I stopped.

However the Sustanon injection came at a time when my E2 was still high. So it made little difference and at first seems like although it was working it was driving E2. I became almost suicidal.

Now I feel my own testicles are starting to recover a little in size. So the Sustanon is falling away. My libido is very low, and I have a week to wait for my next meds. I have a gel prescription but filling it would probably see me without a doctor and a prescriber.

13

My ultimate question I suppose would be … if E2 Max was 147 in UK readings… And I had 237 would 3mg of Adex Anastrozole over 3 days be enough to kill that E2 level way too low?

14

" . . . if E2 Max was 147 in UK readings"

the “normal range” will depend upon the testing lab used.

you probably need need blood work to determine how low your E2 went.

being in the UK it is unusual that you were even able to get the anastrozole prescribed!

15

And then what, Problemo?

Remember the gel worked fine, until it didn’t.

16

The Gel worked until my E2 came up ??..

I have bloods after 6 weeks of Gel showing my E2 237 hi normal Max 147 …
No way of knowing what my bloods were before … The first week of Gel was kinda straight forward, gradually increasing my libido, and my waking erections and even my beard growth. Then it slowed in its effectiveness until at 6 weeks I had the bloods, I was actually nearly OK … when the bloods were taken but in the last two weeks of the gel trial my water retention got worse my heart rate and BP came up.

Then I had the Sustanon couple of days of good and it got worse still (the water retention) until I took the first dose of Anastrazole, then I got my waking erection back and some libido more waking erections and then right up to the third dose of Anastrazole … By the third dose… my Sustanon is obviously waning and the Anastrozole was too higher dose for a test injection decreasing in strength …

The only thing I can do is when I go to the NEW Gel … is to ease off on the Anastrazole to 1mg a week or 1.5 say … as I ease in the Gel, have some bloods taken after two weeks and assess the bloods against how I feel.

Also using as little Gel and Anastrozole as possible to improve my Libido, Erection duration and sense of wellbeing

Does that sound like a plan?

The Testim is a NEW Gel for me, unlike the old Gel you can rub it in. If I had absorbtion problems with the first Gel, it wouldn’t have worked at all, but it clearly did. It was the E2 coming up to meet it that must have given me problems, as well as increasing my dose of it.
Now my watch word will be less maybe more …

17

[quote]CaptainProblemo wrote:
The Gel worked until my E2 came up…

[/quote]

Wrong:

[quote]CaptainProblemo wrote:
My Test was measured 8.8 in a 9-30 range.

[/quote]

What you should have said was “the gel worked until it stopped increasng test and still shot up my E2”

18

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]CaptainProblemo wrote:
The Gel worked until my E2 came up…

[/quote]

Wrong:

[quote]CaptainProblemo wrote:
My Test was measured 8.8 in a 9-30 range.

[/quote]

What you should have said was “the gel worked until it stopped increasng test and still shot up my E2”[/quote]

OK I see the logic in that … But how would it have driven up my E2 if my body wasn’t absorbing it at all?

So, it stopped increasing test and my E2 shot-up …

I did try double dosing a few times … and then I was told by my doctor to try increasing the dose. I had no AI at that point. Thats when the E2 symptoms got worse …

So … if it put my E2 up… I must have been absorbing it?

If I’d maintained my dose and not double dosed and taken 1mg Anastrozole broken up over a week. May it have put up my Test and NOT my E2?

19

If it was not raising your T while raising E2, it will not raise your T while taking Adex. It was aromatizing in your skin membrane before being absorbed into your bloodsrtream as T. I have no idea why this happens, but many people dont absorb gels as T. Though yours seems to be an extreme case because I dont remember any else’s E2 shooting up as high as yours did to boot.

You need to get youself on shots.

20

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
If it was not raising your T while raising E2, it will not raise your T while taking Adex. It was aromatizing in your skin membrane before being absorbed into your bloodsrtream as T. I have no idea why this happens, but many people dont absorb gels as T. Though yours seems to be an extreme case because I dont remember any else’s E2 shooting up as high as yours did to boot.

You need to get youself on shots.[/quote]

I had a shot of Sustanon … but my E2 was raised when I had the shot, and on all accounts it made it worse. My blood pressure went right up, my legs were puffy and so was my face.

If the Gel was raising my E2, AND it worked in the first week or two, then it must have put up my T in those early two weeks. If it worked in those two weeks, but was unreliable at Sustaining T … surely the metabolism occured in my blood to E2 as well as in my skin.

Don’t forget these are British units, what ever they may be … And my Endo was not overly concerned about my E2 level. Even though it was clearly Hi.

The NEW Gel is different, it gets rubbed into shoulders. Not left to hang about on my belly and arms leaving a white residue. I have read and spoken to several people who have great results on it. If it doesn’t work and my week two bloods show it doesn’t I will TRY to get bi-weekly shots…