[quote]rundymc wrote:
He broke a reporter’s femur (hey, answers your question). He’s also been training for more than 10 years so I think it’s safe to say he knows his stuff.
Like Big B said, Forrest, and many others kick that way to keep distance. It’s a jab with the foot. Belfort did the same last night against Silva.
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I already mentioned that using this as a defense in his kicking ability is not acceptable.
- The reporter is a layman.
- He has no idea on how to absorb or take a kick
- He has zilch experience on taking a kick or being conditioned to take a kick
- He stood there whilst Forrest loaded up
- It was a hairline fracture, not a break.
So I’m sorry, it doesn’t answer my question. He knows the technique in idle situations or in kicking bags and pads but I largely don’t see any ability to execute a kick with confidence and effectiveness.
You’re right, Forrest and many others in MMA don’t kick properly in order to keep their distance or avoid being caught. The problem is right there in itself. They have not developed their kicking to a level where they can execute them and they be effective. It’s not just about throwing a kick for the sake of kicking.
That is wasted technique and more importantly, wasted energy where every bit matters. Sure, for Forrest a guy with a huge gas tank, it may not be an issue but part of the reason he has a huge gas tank is he does not commit his body to his movements. If you only kick at 30%, you’re never going to exhaust your atp supply or tap into the danger zone of your lactic acid threshold.
Consequently you will never develop the fitness to deliver 100% power through 5 rounds. Of course, that percentage of your absolute power decreases proportionally round by round but none the less, you throw 100% every punch and kick and commit to the kick/punch, take down etc.
MMa has become too robotic, following the motions and it’s only the elite guys, the champions who don’t follow this robotic style. That’s why they’re champions. Forrest was a convenient champion… the time for him to be one was just convenient, his abilities were not and will never be the caliber of true champions if he doesn’t at one point or another change his approach.
I love the guy as a person, I think he is hilarious and humble and also very educated and I like how he downplays himself but despite having some ability he is no where near great or at the level he could be if he developed cold mongrel like power and commitment in his style. The dutch style power where everything is 100%. Thai’s as lazy as they are, wait for the moment and they then unload. I don’t see any unloading by Forrest. He’s just a guy to keep a fight chugging along, like a medium level sparring session.
[quote] Amiright wrote:
I’d just like to point out you’ve danced around his entire post and didn’t respond to a single point he made and only focus on the minimal use of insults compared to what there could have been when responding to a person like you in this thread. Obvious troll is obvious.
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You are more than correct. I did not feel it warranted any response from me because I didn’t agree with most of it. I hope that answers your question but thanks for pointing out the obvious. I did feel though that discussions were just being thrown around and measure by the amount one can swear, abused and be vulgar.
Why does that have to happen? It’s really petty and doesn’t show any counter argument.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Rather intentionally or not,Forrest does reach with a lot of kicks…lots of MMA fighters do. Hell,a good percentage of them just have what could be argued as crappy technique. But with nature of MMA(takedowns,wrestlers,etc), there is some justification in that. It works…for MMA.
I think humble is “technique-biased” from a Muay Thai/kickboxing standpoint. I find myself doing the same at times. I’m sure being around lots of Thai fighters and being one himself will do that. Can’t say I fault him for that. He is far from a troll. I don’t agree with everything he’s stated…but hey,its a forum. He had an opinion and voiced it.
In fact,I would like to hear from him about any recent trips to Thailand…particularly Tiger Muay Thai.
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I appreciate your response and mannerisms.
As mentioned in the response to the first post above, I still think the problem with many MMAers is 1. that they are consumed by fear (of throwing the kick and being caught) and 2. They just don’t know how to timely execute a kick and thus haphazardly throw them without any thought, just for the sake of throwing them.
The kicking is not deliberate; it is just robotic execution of poor technique because like a cue they remember it. Too many fighters, not only MMA fighters do this. It is a waste really. Remember Pedro Rizzo? His technique in kicking was excellent and he used it in MMA with excellence. He still does. He destroyed Shamrock (yeh he’s a has been and never knew a thing about kicking anyway) with leg kicks last year here in Australia.
I was ringside for that and he still has the resonating thud accompanied by full commitment to the kick he always had. Shamrock is an experienced MMA fighter but timed well and with precision, Pedro only had to throw a few before it wasted him.
New rising star Bardoza (spelling?) is the same. They throw kicking technique flawlessly in MMA. It’s about timing it and finding the moment but still committing to it. Forrest et al just don’t do it.
I do base my kicking analysis on Muay Thai style kicking because that is my primary background but I was also taught initially by a traditional Kung Fu stylist and also a Tae Kwon Do Stylist before I moved to Muay Thai and boxing. I’m not an infant to fight sports at all and know the differences with kicking styles but for the purpose of MMA, for the purpose of any realistic fight style, Muay Thai trumps all kicking wise.
We bring Thai’s out here, I don’t travel to Thailand. My approach is more dutch style than thai style and I am of the belief that many people mistakenly stroke their ego’s traveling there to lay claim that they actually did something worthwhile.
Thailand doesn’t make you a fighter or a kicker, it does put stamps on your passport though.
Check out Jake Shields in Thailand… horrendous. Mike Swift in Thailand… a joke. Gurgel in Thailand, another joke. Silva and the nog camp aren’t in Thailand. The dutch gyms like Cor Hemmers gym or Chakuriki have some of the most devastating Muay Thai fighters… they don’t live and breathe nor train in Thailand but plenty of their fighters have destroyed Thai’s, the most decorated Kaman and Dekker to name two nobles.
My point being is I am of the same philosophical mindset, Thai does not make a fighter. Too many mma fighters now days say ‘My Muay Thai coach’ this and that when in actual fact it is just a pad holder who holds thai arm pads and scream oowaay. Lol. Where are the purists, the real trainers in Muay thai training champions? They’re not in MMA gyms that’s for sure. Just like MMA fighters claiming they have boxing coaches who are much the same, guys who hold hand mitts.
But what happens when a fighter spends a little time with a Freddie Roach to loosen up his hands? Well you get a 5 round fight dominated by one single punch! The most basic punch in stand up. The Jab! Too many people are not purifying their stand up to this degree and MMA/UFC shows for it. It looks lackluster but just because two people stand up and bang, they’re dubbed great stand up fighters. That’s just not true.
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
Ive trained with and been around a lot of people who compete and train others for half a decade now and followed the sport religiously since i was a kid. I speak with some authority on such things. you coming on here and dubbing yourself a pro fighter doesn’t mean shit to me or anyone else, so don’t act like you’re the authority on mma around these parts. In fact, from some of the stupid shit you’ve been spouting, i have to seriously doubt the validity of your claims.
And if you wanna speak solely on his footwork in the Sonnen fight, fine. Maybe his footwork shouldnt be too affected by a rib injury (no one can say except Anderson) but im sure defending take downs becomes more difficult. Besides, as much as i myself dislike Sonnen, you arent giving him enough credit. Hell, Marquardt took down a healthy Anderson and Sonnen completely outgrappled him.
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Well, if you want to talk numbers I’m a year away from two decades so does that make me double as experienced as you are? Perhaps, or perhaps not. It’s irrelevant and I also have a bachelors degree in exercise and Sports science to add to that, much of which involves analysis of human movement. Perhaps it means shit to you as you say and I may not be an MMA authority at all but human movement is human movement.
My background is kicking, punching, stand up clinching and grappling not to mention elbows and kneeing and I only spoke about Forrest’s kicking, not his throws, take downs or whatever.
I didn’t say anything about Silva still having the ability to defend take downs but his footwork is so impressive he could easily evade anything Sonnen charged at him with with that alone.
[quote]apbt55 wrote:
In tone with this, I don’t see a lot of really good muay thai guys in MMA, Silva got that kick because regardless what vitor thinks of himself he is a boxer. Any one who trains and spares with technical muay thai fighters would have seen the kick.
I think that is most of my criticalness of silva, From a pure stand up perspective I don’t see him as being that dominant, but you through in the rest of it, takedowns, wrestling submissions and he is the best striker in MMA.
just my take though.[/quote]
Silva is not a great muay thai stylist but he is leaps and bounds above anyone else in the UFC currently and he knows how to use it in there. His timing and execution is excellent and his technique is also very good. Vitor is not a boxer. He was dubbed a ‘boxer’ because in the 90’s that’s what they did. Tank Abbot was dubbed what??? A ‘Pit fighter’ lmao. Then he was dubbed a ‘bar fighter’, funny enough two names he went on record to refute when interviewed during a show. They just threw these names around for hype.
Vitor’s stuck and he didn’t challenge it. At that time, Vitor was dubbed a boxer. He was heralded as always wishing to become a boxer. Watch his pathetic footwork, watch his pathetic punching style… he is in no way on earth a boxer. Perhaps a guy who likes to punch, can bum rush someone with punches and is fast and aggressive but a boxer (even amateur) he is not. This is pure insult to the sport of boxing.
It seems as though everyone just regurgitates what they hear from commentators and reporters and does no analysis of the fighter’s actual techniques.
This shows two things, one that they are just parroting oft repeated lines and two, they have no experience with which to base their analysis objectively on.
Silva was the perfect skill set to expose Vitor and it would have ended just as devastatingly in any round with a myriad of other techniques. Being aggressive can only get you so far. Being young and angry can only get you so far. Being on the gear and raging it with little care factor can only get you so far.
Eventually, you face a calm, complete and resolute person who isn’t fazed by the hullabaloo around them, take what you have and destroy your spirit systematically. Vitor’s spirit was destroyed before he entered the octagon in that fight as he knew well that he was a punching bag at the nog gym.
