Define “medium” weights.
You could do so stating the maximum reps that can be done with medium weight. Then we could calculate what that is by knowing percentages.
I much prefer empirical descriptions, than vague wording.
I’m not criticizing it at all.
I’m just asking because we are looking for the best pudding here.
So for me, I was doing the pudding 2-sets of 10. I did my first set of 10 and off the fly I said “let’s add a few pounds”, turns out I got 11reps on set 2.
Just something I noticed with me.
So, do I go with written out 2-sets of 10, or go by my instinct………
Of course I’ll eventually plateau, but…….deal with that when it happens.
That can vary.
I’d say medium is a good strong set or two of 10.
But I’m ok with going heavier here and there.
It’s kind of the point of a forum - to beat up ideas. Asking you to defend your recommendations shouldn’t be seen as an attack on you as a person.
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Nope. I don’t tell him anything. He’s a legitimate veteran competitive body builder with a lot to offer.
I do listen to what he suggests though.
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Background defined as competing once or twice in a local show?
If you’re referring to me. I responded to you saying deadlifts are an unnatural lift. I said bending down to pick something up is very natural.
It’s simple, the argument is that you make claims about lifting and then say other methods are inferior.
I asked who you had trained, you said untrained Constrution workers. I said that training untrained people will put them in a better spot than untrained people not training.
You made a clam that cleans shouldn’t be done by elite athletes. You then mentioned elite athletes aren’t usually found in the weight room. In order for me to consider this, I want to know what experience you have coaching or excelling in athletics and therefore I asked what elite athletes you’ve been around. You mentioned HS basketball players.
You mentioned your a pioneer for pursuing your specific training belief. That’s a ridiculous statement. Many people have tried what you said and incorporate some into their programs.. you just may not be aware of that yet.
RT and others are listened to, because they have accomplished things, posted for a long time and can demonstrate success.
I’m a shitty presser, you’ll never see me give advice on pressing. If you ask me how to increase velocity on your fastball or add power to your swing, I’ll give you pages of thoughts.
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IMO, this depends on the audience:
- For the bodybuilder a 10 rep max is considered heavy weight.
- For a powerlifter a 5 rep max is considered heavy weight.
IMO, “heavy” should be typically part of all workouts, with injury exceptions and deloads or planned “light” days.
So heavy is to me is near max or max, hence this is what I’m doing. I’m just not doing it on conventional deadlift.
So what’s the problem with this pudding?
I’ve done 15 AM strongman comps in 5year time span. That is 3 a year.
I said IF an athlete wants to do them, they should. I only said it only benefits a handful of athletes AND I said the are good as a light warmup to power work.
I didn’t say elite athletes aren’t in the weight room, they are because they are supposed to be there but they really don’t care much for it. It’s like making your kid go to church, they go, sit though it, don’t listen to the sermon because they really don’t want to be there.
I have no problem with you doing anything you want to do. You seem to want my approval. I am totally against your training philosophy. I don’t like your “pudding.” I would NEVER recommend your “pudding.”
Don’t post in Bigger Stronger Leaner" what you think is good training philosophy and I will stop adding my 2 cents. Post what you are trying in the Training Logs. I don’t comment in those except when asked my opinion.
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LOL, when/if it does work though, I certainly will post in this section, you can dislike it all you want!
BTW, the whole hangclean opinion is really based on what that strongman guy said about deadlifting, then he talks about all us football player’s do cleans etc. because they are just so much safer.
I think it went over everyone’s head.
You said they ‘hate it’. If you want to clarify that as they do, but hate it, fine. How’d you come to this conclusion again?
Ok.. and my point was what qualifies you to have this opinion? It’s just a bizarre claim to make. I might agree they aren’t great for baseball players, but I would never be bold enough to say across all athletes ‘…they benefit a handlful’.
See my comment on the strongman guy-
Deadlifts are dangerous, but us football players all did cleans because they are safer.
My comments stem from that logic, which I think is nonsense.
The safe portion of cleans over deadlifts is that there is no weight that you can clean that will cause you to lose the arch in your spine. The weight isn’t enough to, what I call, “crack you over” (hump your back to complete the lift.)
When I help someone improve their deadlift, I tell them to stop on the rep that causes them to lose their arch. That is form failure. Granted that maximum effort deadlifts in powerlifting meets causes many to break form to compete their maximum deadlift.
The deadlift was seldom done by anyone in the 1970’s but powerlifters. Nobody did them, and I was one of them. But I did power and hanging barbell cleans. When I started to try powerlifting I pulled the mid-400’s on my first day deadlifting. There was a good bit of carryover of cleans to deadlifts.
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Ya, I saw that note about15 strongman comps. That’s cool. Not sure it qualifies you to speak to general population of athletes. I’d ask you questions if I planned on a strongman competition, however.
Ok. Now I see the crux of the biscuit.
Application is important. When you need to train fast explosive movements, you do it fast/explosively.
Hang cleans & power cleans, done with moderate weight for 3-5 reps/ fast/explosively until speed/performance breaks down is as tried and true a method to develop explosive strength as there is.
If you can do better with near max deadlifts, more power to you, but absolute strength is not the characteristic that is targeted when training football players. A high max effort deadlift is a byproduct of fast/explosive training, not necessarily the other way around.
I walked in to an olympic lifting gym feeling pretty good about a grindy 400+ lb. deadlift and got treated to an eye opening when it comes to fast/explosive lifting and what it really means.
Id challenge you to find one and do the same. You may find yourself becoming much more agreeable to that which you currently disagree with in a hurry.
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I already said, I’m not for max effort deadlifts for football players. I already said medium weight is better.
WTFRACK???
BTW, you want to talk explosive lifting. High rep squats as quickly as possible, very simple shit here dude, you fracking go up and down that’s it. Do that for 10s or even more reps working to improve reps/weight/speed one of those and/or all and everyone gets stronger all around.
Very applicable for an athlete cookie cutter program.
Nope. If you can do 10 reps at the same explosive speed that you did the first 3 you aren’t moving fast enough, which is to say- you are not moving in the range to train a reduction in the SSC.
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Of course, of course you are correct. There’s no way training the squat and improving reps/weight/speed for 10-20reps works at all for becoming a stronger faster athlete…………
Yes, I know.
Do you know how I know?
Because I actually used a tendo unit to measure and track my bar speed.
The problem appears to be that you think you’re thinking outside the box, but thats only because you don’t know what is in it.
Unfortunately, aside from being ignorant you’re also contentious, which leads me to believe you’re also dumb.
So have a nice day. Or don’t. It really doesn’t matter to me either way.