[quote]desolator wrote:
Those are push jerks. Done behind the neck isn’t so dangerous compared to strict presses because the bar starts moving from the start without force from the shoulders. This very portion of the movement is the most dangerous. Though, there are some videos of Kevin Levrone BTN smith pressing 315 for very easy reps.[/quote]
I’ll go dig it up but I think I saw vids of levronne btn pressing from ear level and not off the traps.Phil heath does it from ear level also.
Just adding current “Rear Delt Thread” to this one:
Last time I did delts, I did this:
Militarypress: ramped up to 2 sets to failure followed by 2 rest pauses and 1 dropset
Upright rows: 2 sets to failure
Standing side laterals: 2 sets to failure followed by a dropset
Rear delt machine: 2 sets to failure and a dropset
Personally I find abit higher reps work well for my delts. Typically I’ll do the presses heavy (5-8 reps) and all the other movements in the 10-15 range, sometimes I’ll even go as high as 20+.
I do shoulders twice / week
recovery training for delts on my chest day.
and a heavy shoulders day with recovery training for my pecs.
Heavy day : Plate loaded bilateral pressing to 5-7 reps then 3 stage dropset so my total reps gets above 20.
DB lateral raises 3 stage dropset so my reps gets above 25
Lateral machine raises.
dats it.
on recovery day I do light DB lateral raises 12-20reps 3-10 sets no failure just to get blood flowing to get some enhanced recovery.
Rear delts I do on back day, REV db flyes, and REV flyes in machine, facepulls.
I do no barbell or smith work at all with my shoulders due to old injuries.
i’m deltoids dominant bencher (flat chest/round delts) so in last year I concentrated on dbs lateral raises with body slightly inclined forward,
RP set 10-8/4/2 then I drop the weight 4/2 drop again and go until the end
because I do just bench pressing (slightly inclined/declined) for chest I found that this developed enough my anterior delt,
no work for rear delts as heavy db row did the trick (and no shoulders pain while benching…).
as I wanted to touch with my hands if my anterior delts were stressed up just with benching every 3 months I do a set of bb military press and always found an increments in reps a/o load so this means that my front delts are trained from bench, I guess…
Mikael from Italy
[quote]WP wrote:
[quote]liffy wrote:
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
[quote]debraD wrote:
I hope I’m not asking something that gets asked often and that this is a good place to ask but what kind of ROM is recommended for BHTN presses? [/quote]
Definitely something important and individual. I never did them because of shoulder discomfort, but I seemed to have conquered that with smarter training and specifically working with shoulder mobility, etc.
I found a good ROM for me. Some people can and do go farther down the neck. For me, that may change over time. I think you just need to find your ‘sweet spot’ ROM.[/quote]
While I was at the gym today, there was a guy doing BHTN presses in the smith machine all the way down; in other words letting the bar rest on his traps in between reps. It seemed he was using a relatively heavy weight as well. That can’t be good for anybody’s shoulders :S
[/quote]
Try 5 plates BTN
[/quote]
That’s a BTN push press though, which is much safer from my experience than a BTN press because the first part of the movement (the lowest part, which is coincidentally the most dangerous part) is done by leg drive. It’s still an awesome movement though, you just have to really get the groove of it down.
The trickiest part is landing the fucking bar right, but you get that down after a while.
Anyhow, I like push presses and hang pulls for delt growth. If I stall on push presses I switch to BTN push presses and if I stall on hang pulls I go for one arm DB gorilla/circus presses like Poundstone does here:
Nothing magical but it works very well for me.
If you can do the BTN press, go with it. I’d only do the upper 2/3 of the ROM, though.
For the better part of my training lifetime, I hadn’t been doing any shoulder isolation work (not even db laterals), so the BTN press was my sole shoulder/trap exercise. I was doing OK-ish shoulder-wise (see current avi: that was before I had introduced ISO delt work).
You’ll need excellent external shoulder ROM, though. Besides, as with every overhead press, your shoulder stabilizer muscles need to be up to the task, too. It’s a rather risky movement, especially if done longterm.
That being said: the delts need isolation work. I only realized the power of the ISO after having had to re-think many aspects of my training due to some injuries.
So, in a perfect world, I’d start shoulder training with getting some blood into them (I like to believe there’s a beneficial/injury-preventive cushioning effect), doing heavy BTN presses with 2/3 of the upper ROM and then proceed to hit the delts with ISO work, especially the rear and lateral aspects. I don’t think you need front ISO work if you’re doing enough pressing (be it horizontal or vertical).
[quote]Carlito Gambino wrote:
[quote]WP wrote:
[quote]liffy wrote:
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
[quote]debraD wrote:
I hope I’m not asking something that gets asked often and that this is a good place to ask but what kind of ROM is recommended for BHTN presses? [/quote]
Definitely something important and individual. I never did them because of shoulder discomfort, but I seemed to have conquered that with smarter training and specifically working with shoulder mobility, etc.
I found a good ROM for me. Some people can and do go farther down the neck. For me, that may change over time. I think you just need to find your ‘sweet spot’ ROM.[/quote]
While I was at the gym today, there was a guy doing BHTN presses in the smith machine all the way down; in other words letting the bar rest on his traps in between reps. It seemed he was using a relatively heavy weight as well. That can’t be good for anybody’s shoulders :S
[/quote]
Try 5 plates BTN
[/quote]
That’s a BTN push press though, which is much safer from my experience than a BTN press because the first part of the movement (the lowest part, which is coincidentally the most dangerous part) is done by leg drive. It’s still an awesome movement though, you just have to really get the groove of it down.
The trickiest part is landing the fucking bar right, but you get that down after a while.
Anyhow, I like push presses and hang pulls for delt growth. If I stall on push presses I switch to BTN push presses and if I stall on hang pulls I go for one arm DB gorilla/circus presses like Poundstone does here:
Nothing magical but it works very well for me.[/quote]
Regarding Marius:
It’s not a push press, it’s a push jerk (takes the shoulders mostly out… I.e. he gets it going via leg drive and then dips under it at the top to lock it out, double-dip basically)
/exercise nazi 
Does he? I thought I didn’t see his feet move, so I assumed it was a push press. I’ll go watch it again. I’m a bit of an exercise nazi myself so I feel stupid now.
[quote]Carlito Gambino wrote:
Does he? I thought I didn’t see his feet move, so I assumed it was a push press. I’ll go watch it again. I’m a bit of an exercise nazi myself so I feel stupid now.[/quote]
I don’t think it really matters whether your feet move or not, in a push press you only bend your knees once at the start to get things moving and lock the bar out with straight knees, no?
Double-dipping isn’t part of a push press (would not make sense to call it a press then) from what I was taught, but I’m hardly a specialist when it comes to oly movements.
Koklyaev Misha push press 200 kg/ 440 lb *3 times. - YouTube! ← push press (version done to the front)
Note bend at the beginning, then straight knees while locking out the bar. I.e., the top portion is an actual press.
At the moment I still have a lingering shoulder injury from rugby from earlier this year which has cut out any heavy overhead exercises, I do various raises but they don’t seem to be very productive for me. What I found to be mot productive has been very heavy presses in gthe lower rep ranges and in general keeping volume lower as higher volumes seem to cause me to get weaker over time, maybe I didn’t rest my shoulders long enough between workouts but these I train shoulders minimally.
I usually don’t do more than one top set or one rest-pause set(DC) when overhead pressing either… And only one overhead press per shoulder session… Multiple OH movements or lots of work sets are something my shoulders certainly don’t like…
DB laterals aren’t too great to be honest, compared to cable or (good) machine laterals… That being said, if you aren’t getting stronger then don’t expect them to do anything obviously… Get to raising major weight with the right technique and the affected areas won’t stay small.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Koklyaev Misha push press 200 kg/ 440 lb *3 times. - YouTube! ← push press (version done to the front)
Note bend at the beginning, then straight knees while locking out the bar. I.e., the top portion is an actual press.
[/quote]
Yes, yes I see the difference now. Koklyaev uses pretty much perfect push press form in that, and with 400lbs too. Amazing. I’m not much of an expert at Oly movement either, but I was always under the impression that you have to actually change your foot position with a jerk. But you’re probably right, because the difference is quite noticeable between what Misha is doing and what Mariusz is doing.
That being said I don’t think you can do a proper push press behind the neck, so you’re probably bound to sort of double dip.
Usually…
Smith High Incline Press
OR
HS Overhead Press
For quite a few sets and low-ish reps (4-6)
Then…
Machine Lateral Raise - 3-4 sets of 8-10 reps
HS Shrug OR Smith Machine Shrug - 3-4 sets of 8-10 reps (usually holding for a bit at the top)
One Arm Dumbell Laterals - 3 sets of 8-10 reps
Reverse Pec Deck OR DB Reverse Flye - 3-4 sets of whatever reps focusing on the squeeze
Nice.
Bump
I do: Top seated military press ramp to a top set of 3
seated military press ramp to a top 5 rep set +rep out
Leaning away 1 arm lateral raise: 4 sets
but who cares really I am not an advanced lifter.
My shoulders were a weak point and to get them up to match the rest of my body I basically gave them their own day. I would do two movements for each head so it would look something like this: military press, db press, db laterals, cable laterals, rear delt flye with machine and rear delt flye with db. For the past month or so I have been trying out John Meadows shoulder tips and I feel like it’s been working pretty well.
Yeah John Meadows is a beast. You can’t go wrong following his tips and advice.
On pg 1 when Steely quoted BBB, why does it say “AlteredState wrote:?” lol